against tau gunline

[Guest arbitor marduk]

Hi, i play a nurgle themed army and have trouble getting towards my opponents gun line without dying. I have tried nurgle spawn, bikes and plague marines but with the massed shots due to u'n va or how ever you say the wheelchair guys name. I dont believe that our book is weak as i have no trouble against other armies yet i do have trouble against tau. Though i do like the challenge it would be nice to win once in a while :p

[Trevak Dal]

It's not that chaos is "weak" against Tau specifically, it's just you are trying to outshoot a Tau army with a very Elite (low model count) force.

Plague Marines are pretty close to terminator prices-and do have some nice bonuses, +1 toughness and Feel No pain.
 

Unfortunately, that isn't going to inconvenience a Tau gunline, who will only be wounding on your guys on a 4+ (at worst) instead of a 3+ like everybody else.

 

Worst, is his ability to overlap his overwatch within 6" of a unit being assaulted.  Add in how Markerlights can be used to improve BS during overwatching (though it does take some doing mind you-almost excessive in my opinion-then again I'm more of a "Bring the Gunline to The Enemy" kind of Tau Player).

 

With Aun'Va especially, plus another ethereal and any Cadre Fireblades, you can be eating a lot of pulse fire on the way in.

 

The problem with our army (and Grey Knights...and Space Wolves/Space Marines in general) is that we are a "Near Combat" army, we want to get within 24" and do bad things to the naughty xenos.

Rhinos help in getting your guys there-but I'd recommend Dirge casters.  5 points gets you a 6" bubble of "LOL no overwatch Tau" and Rhinos can move up to 18 inches in a turn (going full 12" and then 6" flat out)

 

Use your spawn along with your bikers as a big "OMG OMG OMG!" unit to distract him from the rest of your forces pushing forward-OR as a massive speartip for the rest of your Rhino bound forces, where the Dirge casters will protect the units that assault (Spawn and Bikers).

 

Focusing ALL of your army on a single point is dangerous-but can have good results.  You're running a Nurgle Themed list, so I wouldn't want you to break theme and take tzeentch marks on your spawn...but you'd at least get a save.  I'd say put the spawn in front of your Bikers, so he has to shoot them first-they are scarier.

 

The units you should target FIRST are arguably Aun'Va/any other etheral he has, or his Markerlight units.  If he has his markerlights in Markerdrones embedded in crisis suit teams...maybe just let them be because he can kite you along.

 

Another thing to consider:  All Firewarriors, and pathfinders have photon grenades-so you're going to lose one attack for charging anyways so multi-charge away.

[Guest arbitor marduk]

Thanks dude, I've tried the dirge caster approach and it does indeed work well with my bikes/spawn, well that is if they havent been gunned down haha. But all the points you've made have been helpful though i have one more question with using the spawn to distract fire from my bikes. I have tried doing it but one volly from the missle Broadsides and they are basically gone leaving the rest of the army to killbthe bikes or any survivors disembarking from rhinos :p

[Trevak Dal]

Facing a gunline Tau army, you got to accept You are going to have losses going in.

 

Havok launchers can all Bull crap on a Gunline when taken in sufficient numbers.  It would mean you couldn't go Flat Out if you wanted to shoot, but it would allow you multiple blasts to drop on them (assuming you take them on all your rhinos).

 

In the very least, he's going to have to pop your transports first-that can buy your fast elements time to get close.  If he pops your fast elements first, your transports filled with Plague Marines and double plasma/Melta/whathave you slurp out and blast them.

Your Rhinos are there to get you within 24".  we don't have access to a...reliable Drop Pod, so for us, the Rhino is an "over land" drop pod that delivers contents.  It has the benefit that we can shoot two weapons out of their fire points, and can get a 5+ cover save for a turn if you pop smoke (in lieu of shooting with the tank).

 

I've used a similar tactic with my Khorne Besekers-they took a lot of firepower that first turn-it was like the Beach Assault scene from the movie Troy...and then Khârn and his 9 closest buddies in a Land Raider came up and assaulted from the side, the shot up unit then assaulted and I pretty much killed his entire army in a single combat.  Then again, he was looking at the guys in his face-and forgot about the Brick Of Woe that was the Landraider with Khârn and company (we'd been drinking, so there's that).

 

Remember, you don't have to have everything on the table at once.  It's okay-and sometimes a good idea to reserve some units.

 

I always keep a unit of terminators "in my back pocket" (in reserve) "In case things go awry".

 

It's like when I play my Tau-I keep a Riptide in reserve.  "in case things go awry,"

 

Also because I like saying "STANDBY FOR TITAN FALL!" or "REINFORCEMENTS ARE ON THE SPOKE!" and making "woooosh-BOOOOOOM" noises when it deep strikes in.

[Guest arbitor marduk]

Awesome :D thanks for the info :), i hadnt even thought of the havoc launcher rhino idea, I'll have to try it out in my next game :D

[Aun'O'Awesome]

Hey Arbiter, I find Tau gun lines very easy to take out, they aren't exactly AM quality. Aun'Va is super easy to take out, use bolters so he only has his 5+ saves. Deepstrike half of your army in his face, then get the rest of the army to go cruising in their Rhinos and then go 'pewpew' in their face.

[Montuhotep]

If he's got Riptides with Interceptor, then deep-strike is damn near suicidal...

[Trevak Dal]

If he's got Riptides with Interceptor, then deep-strike is damn near suicidal...

 

But it can be useful.  If he uses his big gun for the interceptor shot-he can't use it in his phase.  The multiple Helbrute deep strike thing would be pretty nasty-though I'd take a Twin Linked lascannon on them, because I play against a guy who uses the Avatar of Khaine (who is immune to Melta, and Flamer weaponry...yaaaay)

 

If only we could mark the dreds and they'd get a corresponding ability, it'd be MoS all around for +1 initiative to punk out Wraith lords/Knights.

[Iron_Within]

Question: Are you playing eternal War or Maelstrom of War Missions?

 

There are several things IMO that can hurt a Tau gun line that Chaos do quite well.

 

1. Psykers: Laugh at his feeble blue skinned lack of psykers in any and every way. You could take 2 or even 4 unmarked Sorcerers at lvl 3 and utterly dominate the psychic phase. Always remember to take a Spell Familiar to get your spells off. Alternatively, you can take Bel'akor as a guaranteed Invisibility caster. You can go all telepathy and hope for multiple invisibility. Or you could along with the Sorcerer, take a Daemon Prince with Level 3. Stick it all in Malefic and have your Nurgle Rot Primaris and you have a casting machine that will grind him down.

Note: Invisibility is always 6 to hit with shooting, so markerlights do bugger all.

 

2. Lots of Fast units: We have lots of these, you mentioned a few, Maulerfiends, Spawn, DS HellBrutes, Cheap Rhinos. Combine with Dirge casters. Rush. While he has a shed load of firepower and you will take casualties, the trick is to overwhelm him with targets, so some go down but others go in. Maulerfiends are particularly good IMO against Tau infantry Gun lines as his Pulse Rifles do nothing. They are also quite good against Riptides, especially with the aforementioned psyker support.

Note: Rhino's with Dirge casters. Run them empty if you have to and run them alongside your assault element and block the Overwatch

 

3. His Troops are better at killing than yours: It's sad but it's true, even Plague Marines suck for killing the enemy, and you shouldn't bother configuring them to kill your opponents troops. They are for taking objectives and sitting there accruing Victory points. In taking objectives you are better than he is. Sit the Plague Marines on objectives.

 

4. Forget long range: His range is better than yours, you cannot compete and any attempt to do so will screw you over and play into his hands.

 

Tactics/General Advice: 

Play Maelstrom of War missions

 

Maelstrom of War does not favour static gunlines, it just doesn't because they might need to take that objective in your deployment zone to get points and suddenly he's got an army of CC monsters and angry puss filled marines to get through. Eternal War plays to his strengths - a static list, play to yours.

 

Terrain:

How much Terrain do you play on? If he can hit you from one side of the board to the other without problems then it's not enough. More cover, IMO is a more fun game. You don't want to re-enact the Somme 40k style. lots of terrain, that your Spawn and Maulerfiends will bound through with no problem. And if you're worried about Rhino's breaking down, give them dozer blades

 

Box him.

It seems counter productive, but you want him boxed close together, where he cannot get out. Lovely Tau gunlines oblige nicely with those overlapping zones of fire so he'll do some of the work for you. You then rush at him hugging aforementioned terrain. This keeps him away from the Objectives and fighting your assault section (which I might add is a big massive killy distraction from you taking objectives).

 

Play Intelligently Aggressively: Never forget the ranges of his weapons or high fast those stupid Crisis suits can move. For example from a previous game, against a IG mech force. The guy had vets in a chimera with melta guns, so instead of running hell mell with my Maulerfiends at it I made sure they were 19" away from those dammed Vets. This meant he couldn't use armourbane. against Tau your most fragile assault troops are your Spawn, they die in droves to rapid firing Fire Warriors, so finish the move before the assault launches 19" away, that way, your turn comes, 12" move, 7" away, assault ignoring negative effects of terrain and re-rolling charge distance, you're in and the hurt it on.

 

Never forget the objectives. Just never forget them. Once he's on the ropes it's easy to forget and go for the kill, but stupid fast sections can screw you over.

 

Psychic powers: Biomancy for Spawn, Telepathy for everything, Malefic is all or nothing.

[Iron_Within]

Sorry about the double post but I left something out.

 

Mayhem packs

 

I don't rate the individual Hellbrute, especially against gunlines where they can be easily taken out. but a Mayhem Pack is a monkey wrench in the enemy plans. In a list you go from 4 Rhino's, 3 Maulerfiends, 10 Spawn, 7 bikes with a lord with fist and claws, and then drop Hellbrutes on his doorstep he'll simply have too many units to deal with before you're on him (BTW that army above comes to 2k). 

 

Hellbrute loadouts: keep 'em cheap. Largely I wouldn't bother changing the weapon from a multimelta, even for another CC arm. The reason is if you go all CC Hellbrute sods law will dictate you roll fire frenzy every dammed time and all three will stand there like dopes because they have no weapons. Plus if you roll blood rage, you get Rage and fleet (if this is on the turn you turn up it sucks but as you know you can place them in a position to endure the return fire) So a Gun and a CC weapon every time. 

When they you turn up roll for the crazed result before resolving Deep Strike (it happens simultaneously so you can choose the order), what the crazed result is determines where you put them. If you get fire frenzy you want them where they can shoot for the greatest hurt, like the Crisis suit as every wound is a dead suit, and with 6 MM shots, you might wipe the unit.  As an alternative, the Plasma Cannon could work though as 6 plasma cannon shots will put a big dent in his line. Don't take the Lascannon, it's too expensive and it's a long range weapon and you want to be close.

 

For secondary load outs, I prefer the Combi-bolter to give it an extra chance of not losing the CCW or multimelta. Some prefer the a Thunder hammer but IMO against Tau it's not needed.

 

Once in combat, 3 Hellbrutes will eat anything he can throw at them, including the Riptide as it only has one S:10 attack with Smash.

 

Never rely on a guaranteed charge with these guys though, they will fire frenzy when you don't want them too, because again sods law. But they are there to cause mayhem and make your opponent panic, and they do that rather well.

[totgeboren]

Just a quick comment on the Helbrutes. Abilities which are triggered at the start of the turn cannot be used on the turn you arrive from reserves, so I'm not sure you are suppose to roll on the crazy table on the turn they deep strike?

I dunno, it says "At the start of each of your Movement phases, make a single roll blabla"... hmmm.... You have to roll for reserves and move all your arriving reserves before you can move other stuff, but is this move done before the movement phase perhaps?

Damn, I'm starting to lean towards the correct order being "Roll for reserves; Deploy/Move Reserves; Start of Movement Phase so roll on the Crazy table." I thought I figured out something smart.

At least you can mitigate the random table a bit if you deep strike within 12" on an enemy unit. If you roll Blood Rage you have to run towards the enemy if there are no enemies within your maximum charge range. Maximum charge range is 12" and he doesn't need to run if there are enemies with that range and can therefore shoot normally in the Shooting phase. After that comes the assault phase, and the Deep Strike says he can't launch an assault. That's how I read it at least.

[Iron_Within]

Re-reading it, I think you've got it right. It doesn't affect the tactics of the Mayhem pack much just a little fiddling.

 

There is no mention of them not rolling on the crazed table the turn they arrive so that would be they would imo.