Throwing ideas around for 7th ed lists

[cyborgcommunist]

I don't know the full details of our 7th ed codex (My codex pre-order got delayed a week) but I have read around and thought of a few interesting ideas. 

 

Namely, Space Wolves have access to Fast Attack Drop Pods.

 

So 10 Purifiers with some hammers and maybe the psilencer, combat squadded inside SW DPs. Get 2 of these suckers. 

Then 20 Grey Hunters with 2 meltas per squad and get them Drop Pods too. 

10 Interceptors, maybe with psycannons or incinerators, probably incinerators. 

2 NDKs

 

I'm not sure about HQs but would probably have to take Crowe (if he still makes Purifiers troops) or get a Ml3 Libby with some termies, maybe in a LRC.

 

So just drop 2 squads of Purifiers turn 1, 4 Cleansing Flames go off and they evaporate infantry. Turn 2 the Grey Hunters show up and pop tanks. The Interceptors and NDKs shunt up and wreck havoc. 

 

I'm completely unsure of the points costs (I do want to add in 2 Stormravens) but this is just a concept. I know that a GK strike force can DS and run'n'shoot, not sure if it applies with DPs, it'll be awesome if it did. 

 

 

Or you know, now that Draigo has GoI, Draigo + Tiggy + Devastator Cents. Invisible Centurion Star which DS with a beatstick tank. 

[Gentlemanloser]

They can run and shoot in the same turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserves.

 

Nothing stopping that being from a Drop Pod (even though the name of the rule is 'Rites of Teleportation').

 

Another oversight by GW.

 

And a great example of their eye towards overall balance. :P

[cyborgcommunist]

But doesn't it say the Rites of Teleportation rule only applies when using the Nemesis Strike Force detachment? Technically whilst the purifiers are part of that detachment, the Drop Pods are part of the Space Wolves Detachment

[Gentlemanloser]

The Purifiers are a unit from the Strikeforce though.  And they are arriving from Deep Strike Reserves.

 

The Drop Pod wouldn't be able to run and shoot the turn it arrives, but it's immobile anyway. ;)

 

The Strikeforce doesn't specify *how* units in it need to arrive, only that they do.

[irwit]

So a free 12 inch move from a  droppod, and you can still shoot and psychic,  thats pretty handy! 

[casb1965]

Can you put units from one detachment into transports from the other?

[Quozzo]

Yes as they're battle brothers, providing it's not a dedicated transport. (Which the SW DP is not, it's FA)

 

What HQ and troop choice would you use to justify the cost of deep striking purifiers though?

[Gentlemanloser]

Can't be unbound, as you need to use the Strikeforce Detachment.

 

Rune Priest as Counts As Inquisitor and Bloodclaws as Counts As Warrior Accolytes?

[Landrick]

Does this actually work? This sounds freaking awesome!

[irwit]

I doubt your opponent is going to really apprechiate it but RAW yes you can.  I really doubt it is RAI however and I wouldnt be suprised to see it FAQed. 

[Valerian]

Bare-bones Rune Priest is dirt cheap, and one unit of double-melta Grey Hunters in their own Drop Pod would satisfy your Allied Detachment requirements.  They'd even have Objective Secured.

 

It really isn't a bad idea.

[cyborgcommunist]

Now I've got both codices in my hands so I can wrap my head around the concept. 

 

The idea right now is 3 drop pods. 2 drop pods with 10 Grey Hunters each and 1 bought from the Fast Attack slot that I shove the 10 purifiers into (Battle Brothers can board their ally's transports). I could also go Valerian's way and get only 2 Drop pods with 10 Grey Hunters and 10 Purifiers but where's the fun in that? I want to drop all kinds of havoc turn 1

 

I would probably get a standard ML3 Libby with some Terminators (maybe 5?) for the GK detach so that they can also abuse the Rites of Teleportation. As GentlemanLoser said, RAW means that I can indeed DeepStrike ALL the drop pods turn 1, with the purifiers being able to run and shoot when they arrive (trollllolololololololol, 2 Cleansing Flame novas + 16 S4 stormbolters + 24 S4 Psilencers).

 

I'll get a ML2 Runepriest (maybe even Njal Stormcaller) as the GK can generate a crap ton of warp charge dice for him and he can generate for the ML libby as well.

 

Add 2 NDKs and some stormravens or the Space Wolf's far superior ranged anti-tank and I think this would be pretty fun. However, the whole Battleforged list will have no Objective Secured so :/ I might have to take some Interceptors if playing Maelstrom of War.

 

Granted as irwit said, my opponent would be thoroughly pissed at me depositing the purifiers into his backline but if it works it means that I can squeeze some fun use out of the new GK codex now that my DraigoWing took the nerfhammer to the balls. Any mobility problem previously faced in the Grey Knights codex can be solved by either Space Wolves drop pods (and to which they can provide extra bodies that the boys in silver so desperately lack) or Draigo's new GoI to Deep Strike one scary sqaud with the beatstick tank up front. 

[cyborgcommunist]

Yes as they're battle brothers, providing it's not a dedicated transport. (Which the SW DP is not, it's FA)

 

What HQ and troop choice would you use to justify the cost of deep striking purifiers though?

I'll have to write up an actual list now but I think 10 Terminators with a ML3 Libby and even a Grand Master would justify the purifiers showing up to splatter infantry. Then the Terminators can also use Rites of Teleportation and show up to mow down anything left and stand really firmly on objectives. 

[Valerian]

Now I've got both codices in my hands so I can wrap my head around the concept. 

 

The idea right now is 3 drop pods. 2 drop pods with 10 Grey Hunters each and 1 bought from the Fast Attack slot that I shove the 10 purifiers into (Battle Brothers can board their ally's transports). I could also go Valerian's way and get only 2 Drop pods with 10 Grey Hunters and 10 Purifiers but where's the fun in that? ....

 

That's actually not quite what I was advocating.  Here, let me break it down for you:

 

Allied Detachment:

 

      Headquarters:  Rune Priest (upgrade to taste)

 

      Troops:  Grey Hunters Pack (upgrade to taste), add Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport.  This unit and its Drop Pod have Objective Secured.

 

      Fast Attack:  Two Drop Pods with Locator Beacons

 

Points:  This Detachment can run less than 300 points if you go minimal upgrades and keep the pack size small.

 

Nemesis Strike Force Detachment:

 

       Headquarters: ML3 Librarian or Grand Master (upgrade to taste).  This is your Warlord

 

       Elites:  Two full Purifier Squads.  Each with a couple of Incinerators, and whatever melee weapon upgrades you want.

 

       Troops: Two (+) Terminator Squads.  Each with Psycannon(s), and whatever melee weapon upgrades you want.

 

       Heavy Support: Two Nemesis Dreadnoughts (upgrade to taste)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Tactics: 

 

Deployment and Movement:

 

The Librarian/Grand Master attaches to one of the several Terminator Squads, all of which are in Deep Strike Reserves.  Using Rites of Teleportation, from their Detachment's Command Benefits, any/all of these units will arrive via Deep Strike in the 1st turn on a roll of 3+.  I would aim to land them 14" or so short of the enemies' lines - you don't want to risk scattering into enemy units and suffering from a Mishap, and as long as they are well within 24", they'll be able to make good use of their Storm Bolters and Psycannon on arrival.  These units can Run and Shoot, or Shoot and Run, as best fits the situation, in order to get in optimal positioning for follow-on turns.

 

 

The two Purifer units ocuppy the two Space Wolves' Fast Attack Drop Pods, and split into Combat Squads.  These all automatically deploy in your first turn, safely, at the forward edge of your adversary's battle lines.  The four total Combat Squads may now move up to 6" to disperse, spread laterally across the forward edge of the enemies' lines, and maneuver into optimal positioning for the use of their Incinerators.

 

The Grey Hunters stay in Deep Strike Reserves in their Drop Pod, and come on in the second wave, using regular process for Reserves rolls. 

 

The Rune Priest can attach to the Grey Hunters, and deploy in their Drop Pod in the second wave.

 

The Nemesis Dreadknights can be deployed on the table from the beginning of the game, behind cover.  Because they can safely Shunt forward 30", and go exactly where you want them, these should always be the last units to move on your turn, to prevent cluttering up the battlefield.  Once all other units are in place, these Shunt forward and position for best allocation of their Heavy Incinerators.

 

Psychic Phase

 

The four Purifier Combat Squads each attempt to nova burst Cleansing Flame, using pooled Warp Charges from any other psyker unts on the board to ensure they get them off successfully.  These four novas will probably cover the majority of the adversary's side of the board, with many units being hit more than once by overlapping areas of effect.  Pretty much every enemy unit on the board will affected by Soul Blaze.

 

Depending on availability of Warp Charges, the Nemesis Dreadknights may chose to attempt to cast Sanctuary on themselves. 

 

Shooting Phase

 

To add insult to injury, the four Purifier Combat Squads each lay down their Incinerator templates (up to eight overlapping templates for a 40 point total investment) over any nearby units.

 

The Nemesis Dreadknights lay down their two total 'torrent' Heavy Incinerator templates to mass affects against exposed support units in the second rank of the enemy lines.

 

All remaining units (including the two Drop Pods) lay in with their remaining firepower of combined Stormbolters, Psycannons, and Heavy Psycannons (depending on how you've armed your NDKs).

 

Assault Phase

 

None of your units can assault this turn.  Use this phase to allow your opponent to collect and organize his casualties. 

 

V

[cyborgcommunist]

Oh, I get what you mean now. Sorry, I misunderstood.

Essentially, the Space Wolves are just all tax to get the purifiers all podded and still give some objective secured.

So the 2 pods show up, and the Termies use the locator beacons to get real close to enemies and pop them. I like this a whole lot

 

I do want to take fully sized Grey Hunters packs though, because melta is nice at popping tanks that the GK aren't very good at killing. I'm contemplating the list here

[Valerian]

Oh, I get what you mean now. Sorry, I misunderstood.

Essentially, the Space Wolves are just all tax to get the purifiers all podded and still give some objective secured

That's right. It's all about executing a Flamestrike by guaranteeing quadruple Cleansing Flame novas and Octuple Incinerator templates on the enemy, safely, in the first turn.

 

I do want to take fully sized Grey Hunters packs though, because melta is nice at popping tanks that the GK aren't very good at killing. I'm contemplating the list here

Popping tanks is only a problem for Grey Knights when we're on the far side of the board. When we're literally within 'gripping distance' on turn 1, then any and all vehicles are going to go down quickly to Nemesis Daemon Hammers, Meltabombs, and Hammerhand attacks to rear armour, not to mention Psycannon fire. Oh, and our Jump Monstrous Creature, too.

[lt051]

Bonus points if you take an inquisitor and treat the pods like 3rd edition orbital strikes

[Shadrach03]

Now that is some creative thinking Val. I've been trying to think of a way to utilize dark angels for scouting teleport homers, meltas and maybe Azrael to loan his invul to a unit of purifiers.

 

After thinking about it to maximize Azrael's benefit you'd sacrifice the add offense of combat squads for defense. Maybe Samael would work.

[cyborgcommunist]

@Valerian

 

But in a an Allied Detachment, you can only get 1 Fast Attack. So I'l have to take another 5 Grey Hunters to get the second pod. But your point about anti-tank is right. Shunt it all. 

[Aun'O'Awesome]

That is the silliest move HW have made in a long time: Making Drop Pods FA and having GK as Battle Brothers. Its going to get abused so much and I for one would refuse to play it. People bitched about Taudar, but look at this? GK who can deepstrike safely then spam their awesome guns? No thanks.

[Gentlemanloser]

Really?

 

I suppose you'd refuse to play GK players who use Centurion?

 

How about SoB how take Drop Pods?

 

Anyone that uses a Knight?

 

GW messed up with Battle Brothers and SW Drop Pods.  They have given Drop Pods to *every* Army of the Imperium.

 

But this is a farciful thing to refuse to play someone over...

[cyborgcommunist]

"Awesome" gun is a bit of a stretch too IMO. Psycannons are good but they're not that amazing now. Salvo2 is meh. And you can't stack the damage flame templates do, can only kill those under the template so spamming the Incinerator is sub-par unless you get really good positioning. In addition, it's not guaranteed to harness the warp charges to cast Cleansing Flame as you only have warp charges based on who's on the table. 

 

Plus the Purifiers will have to eat a turn of shooting before they get to charge. Not to mention you won't use drop pods for any part of the GK codex except for Purifiers as almost everyone else has Deep Strike and can come in Turn 1 anyway, regardless of having SW Drop Pods. 

[Valerian]

@Valerian

 

But in a an Allied Detachment, you can only get 1 Fast Attack. So I'l have to take another 5 Grey Hunters to get the second pod. But your point about anti-tank is right. Shunt it all.

Ah, yes, so combined arms detachment it is, and five more Grey Hunters to make it work.

[Landrick]

The more you push your communist agenda of "drop pods for all"... The more I like it!

[cyborgcommunist]

Everyone should get drop pod. I would love to give Khorne Berserkers drop pod for some delicious death.