The Aegis

[Captain Coolpants]

Is there any new clarification for this rule? Can it be used to deny all powers, or only ones directed at the unit itself?

[tsijben]

It's an enhancement to Deny the Witch, so only if directed at your unit.

[Captain Coolpants]

Because I remember there was a big debate about this a while back, because to deny a blessing, it doesn't say if you select a unit to dispel or not. So was wondering if this was cleared up in the new dex.

[boreas]

As far as I can remember, the problem was with reinforced Aegis, which doesn't exist anymore.

[Valerian]

It's an enhancement to Deny the Witch, so only if directed at your unit.

 

Will have to look at the Aegis wording again, but don't forget that you can attempt to Deny all powers, not just the ones directed at your unit. 

[Captain Coolpants]

Well it was re-roll rolls of 1 when denying powers. The aegis doesn't specifically state if it's only for powers directed at the unit or in general. So was just seeing if any leaked pics or whatever clarified this.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

"The Aegis: A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule re-rolls results of 1 when making Deny the Witch tests"

pg. 86, Codex: Grey Knights, 7th edition

 

Seems very clear how it operates. 

[Aun'O'Awesome]

The OP is such an idiot, it states clearly in the codex, clearly he cannot read!

[Captain Coolpants]

The OP is such an idiot, it states clearly in the codex, clearly he cannot read!

Matt you retarded little bitch. The main rule book says you can make deny the witch tests on an enemies powers directed at you obviously, but it DOES NOT state if you nominate or not, a unit to deny things such as blessings. It also states that no modifiers are allowed, a re-roll isn't a modifier... According to the the rulebook.

 

 

And as the grey knights book simply says that I re-roll rolls of 1. Then there is nothing saying that it can't be used for blessings/summonings.

 

BUT. A while back people were saying that the aegis could only be used at powers directed at the unit, as it actually does say "unit" in the rule. But as I previously said, nothing says that you do or don't select a unit to deny an opponents blessing.

[Landrick]

What's a deny the witch test then?

[Captain Coolpants]

So can this be used against blessings?

 

I remember an old thread about it.

 

On One hand it says the "unit", implying it has to be the target to take effect.

 

But on the other hand, nowhere does it say anywhere that you don't have to choose or if you have to or if you can't choose a unit to deny the test for a blessing/summoning.

 

And although the rulebook says no modifiers can be used, a re-roll isn't a modifier.

What's a deny the witch test then?

A deny the witch is a special roll you or your opponent uses to 'deny' a psychic power from activating.

[Landrick]

I meant the rules. RD spelled out the rule for the Aegis. Which uses the term "deny the witch roll" So what exactly is that?

 

Let me clarify: I am not at home so I can't check myself, and I think it would help us clarify to see both rules side by side

[Gentlemanloser]

Deny the witch

If you opponent makes a sucessful psychic test, you can attempt to nulify the power being manefested by making a Deny the Witch test (pg26)

 

 

 

 

To make a Deny the Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemies psychic power

 

 

 

If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power <snip> you can still attempt to Deny the Witch

 

Hope this helps!

[Landrick]

Thanks. I could see it going either way still

But I may be biased since we just got beat over the head with the nerf bat... With force active!

[Gentlemanloser]

The Aegis can totally be used for any Deny the Witch roll.  Wither it's a witchfire that's targeted your unit, or you're trying to stop an Invisibility being cast.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Agreed. A re-roll is not a modifier, whereas something like Adamantium Will is. So for example, your Librarian with a stave and Mastery 3 will Deny on a 3+ against most enemy psykers (only a handful have an equal or higher Mastery level), re-rolling 1's due to Aegis, if the powers are directed at the unit (note that this includes novas). But if you're trying to Deny say 'Endurance' or 'Invisibility', you'd Deny only on 6's, but re-roll any 1's to Deny. 

 

Seeing as literally every unit in our codex has Aegis (barring vehicles), I don't see how anyone could argue you don't get to re-roll 1's when Denying blessings and the like. 

[Captain Coolpants]

Thanks guys. I just needed it to be 100% clear to me before I started re-rolling possible game changing powers.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Thanks guys. I just needed it to be 100% clear to me before I started re-rolling possible game changing powers. 

 

 

All good. If your opponents get salty about it, remind them you pay about 30% more for everything for a minor buff to psychic defense (amoungst a few other things of course). If they 6 or 8 dice a spell, you probably won't Deny it anyway. 

[Captain Coolpants]

Well he brought it up again today. But this time as Khârn the betrayer and his 2+ dtw roll. I said that wouldn't work because it's a set modifier (which can't be used for blessings/ summonings according to the rulebook)

 

But he seems to think that if mine would work then his would too. Even though aegis is a re-roll and kharns blessing of the blood God is a set modifier.

 

Again this is all down to the fact the our army rules still say "unit".

Implying that it's been targeted.

But the rulebook says nothing about me being able/not able to nominate a unit to deny the blessing... Because the dtw roll has to be coming from somewhere right?

[Adeptus]

Don't think so. I might be wrong and I'm not near my book, nor do I know the Chaos codex very well either, but...

 

The other day I null-deployed against a Daemon army. On his first turn I had no models on the board, but still got my D6 Warp Charge points which I was able to use to Deny the Witch. I can't remember if I re-rolled my ones or not.

 

Now, I don't know about Khârn, but I'd be extremely surprised if he's allowed to use a 2+ DTW against blessings.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Seeing as literally every unit in our codex has Aegis (barring vehicles), I don't see how anyone could argue you don't get to re-roll 1's when Denying blessings and the like. 

Because a unit doesn't make the Deny role when it comes to Blessings. As the Aegis only applies when the unit with the rule is making a Deny attempt, it cannot affect blessings. It looks pretty open and shut to me.

 

Otherwise, if you can pick a unit to deny blessings, all the regular boosts to deny (ML, psychic hood etc.) would apply as well.

[Adeptus]

 

Seeing as literally every unit in our codex has Aegis (barring vehicles), I don't see how anyone could argue you don't get to re-roll 1's when Denying blessings and the like.

Because a unit doesn't make the Deny role when it comes to Blessings. As the Aegis only applies when the unit with the rule is making a Deny attempt, it cannot affect blessings. It looks pretty open and shut to me.

 

Otherwise, if you can pick a unit to deny blessings, all the regular boosts to deny (ML, psychic hood etc.) would apply as well.

 

Why would they apply when the rules explicitly state they don't apply?

 

There is a list of things that don't apply, and from memory it also includes anything that would modify the die roll.

 

A re-roll, importantly, is NOT a modifier, and so always applies.

[Kenderleech]

To make a Deny the Witch test, first select one of your units that was a target of the enemy’s psychic power. You will then need to expend a number of Warp Charge points; declare how many points you will spend and remove them from your pool. Then roll a number of D6 equal to the number of Warp Charge points expended. Apply any of the following modifiers that apply to each individual dice roll:

 

 

then theres a table of modifiers.

 

If none of your units were the target of the enemy’s psychic power (the power in question might have been a blessing, a conjuration, or some other power that only affects the Psyker’s own troops) you can still attempt to Deny the Witch. To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls – you will require rolls of 6 to nullify Warp Charge points.

 

 

 

So, step one of deny the witch.   Choose a unit.  then select warp charges.  roll dice, apply mods, count 6's. 

 

Denying a blessing?   Select a unit.  select warp charges.  roll dice.  Do not apply modifiers.  count 6's.    

 

So, we flip back to the general principles section, where ti talks about measuring, what a d3 is and find that rerolls and modifiers are separate headers.  

 

 

No units?   No deny.    Unit has Aegis, reroll 1's.

 

seems clear to me.

[DarkProdigy]

Except that the only units you are allowed to use for denying are units that were targeted by the power. This is why barring use of a psychic hood I can't use let's say Khârn to deny a witchfire that was cast on a unit across the table from him.

 

The rulebook gives us permission to deny when there is no target (blessings), but then the real question is who is doing the denying? Aegis is a rule applied to units, not an army wide warlord trait or scenario rule.

 

One interpretation is that the player himself is doing the denying (it does say "you" may still deny), and in that case I don't think players have aegis, but that's also strange cause the player doesn't really take action anywhere else in the game in this way. It might make sense to pick a unit, but which unit? Closest? Definitely no RAW here.

[Gaz1858]

For a blessing or where there is no target you still choose one of your units to be the denier but apply no modifiers