Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 For a blessing or where there is no target you still choose one of your units to be the denier but apply no modifiers But what if you have no units on the table? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Wouldn't that mean that there was no one there to attempt to deny the power being cast? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Wouldn't that mean that there was no one there to attempt to deny the power being cast? Do you need a unit to deny for you, or can you just roll the dice regardless? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296066-non-grey-knights-player-opinion-on-agis-wording/page-2 Maybe everyone should read what's being said here too? Literally the same subject just without GK players. (except for me and Gentlemanloser) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 You must select a unit to deny. If you cannot select a unit you cannot deny. If you need x to complete y and dont have x then cant do y. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total0 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Thats because i wanted to avoid any grey knight bias on the subject and get what other people thought about the subject. In which everyone agrees with you all not getting it for blessings ect with only jbat360. And Gentlemanloser (both greyknight players so post wasnt intended for you) saying you do Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total0 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 The rulebook also says that if there is no target the opponent roles the deny the witch role, not pick a unit to do so Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Haha gotta love the net. Arguing over anything really. Ok lets look at the rules... Aegis allows you to re-roll 1s when doing a DtW. Under General Principles it states that a re-roll is basically that. Re rolling the dice and accepting the result whether it be better or worse. Under the DtW rules it states no modifiers can be used/given for DtW on blessings and the like. Back to general principles again and just above the rules about rerolls is the rule for Modifiers. Modifiers are where you add 1 subtract 1 etc, or where you roll 2d6 or 3d6 etc. So is the aegis a modifier or a reroll? It is a reroll as shown in the general principles of the rules. Thus it is not a modifier and can be used when denying blessings and the like. Anyone want to disprove that its straight from the rulebook. Rerolls and modifiers are different rules. Pretty clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 You must select a unit to deny. If you cannot select a unit you cannot deny. If you need x to complete y and dont have x then cant do y. Then how can I deny a blessing? To deny a blessing the rules say to follow the same process as to deny a malediction or witchfire. That process starts with selecting a unit that will be affected by the psychic power to make the deny roll. If I can't select a unit (because none of my units have been targeted) then how can I deny a blessing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Seriously adeptus? Just pick a unit and be done with it. From BRB If none of your units were the target of the enemy’s psychic power (the power in question might have been a blessing, a conjuration, or some other power that only affects the Psyker’s own troops) you can still attempt to Deny the Witch. To do so, follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice rolls – you will require rolls of 6 to nullify Warp Charge points. So the rule starts saying none of your untis were selected but you can still.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Exactly. Literal RAW is broken and doesn't work. If you have to select the target unit to Deny a Blessing, no one can Deny Blessings... There are two camps for what to do next. 1: Just pick any unit of yours. It makes no difference as there are no modifiers anyway. 2: Ignore that first line, no unit is used to Deny a blessing I'm in camp number 1, as it doesn't just ignore a section of the rules. And The Aegis isn't a Modifier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total0 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Ok pg26 it says "select. One of your units that was the target of the enemys psychic power" Then later on for blessings and such "if none of your units were the target of the enemys psycic power YOU can still attempt to dtw" Now if you read this word for word and carryout the same process you are unable to select a unit that was the target as there wasn't one so you dispell like say a tau player would, as well as it says "you" can dispell not your army or units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 FAQ is going to be updated to allow GK faction players to pay 5 points to give themselves "the Aegis". That'd solve this discussion. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 It also says follow the same process. Which means pick a unit.. Otherwise it Isn't the same process is it. It doesn' say anywhere that you follow the same process, just don't select a unit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Im interested how people were playing this before the GK codex. Didnt seem to be a big thing until OMG GK GET REROLLS. RULES LAWYERS ATTACK!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Total0 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It says select a unit that was the target of the power, as there was no target you cannot selct one to deny, hence no.bonus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I really don't think "breaking the third wall" (or is it 4th?) is really a good rule position... *I* don't deny anything the filthy xenos do. As you know, they don't really exist... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Seriously adeptus? Just pick a unit and be done with it. What if I have no units on the table? Where does it say I can (or have to) pick a unit? If I get to pick a unit, then I definitely get the benefit of the Aegis. That much is cut-and-dried. The only question is, when denying a blessing, WHO is actually denying the psychic power? Me, the player? Or a unit I choose? And if it has to be a unit, can I make Deny the Witch rolls if I have no units on the table? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Like an all Drop Pod army going second... No units on the board, can you Deny Gate of Infinity? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Or a Nemesis Strike Force going second Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 All i can say is if you were not to pick a unit the bit about not applying modifiers wouldnt need to be there as modifiers only come from a units rules. By being there it seems to me you must select a unit but ignore their modifiers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 All i can say is if you were not to pick a unit the bit about not applying modifiers wouldnt need to be there as modifiers only come from a units rules. By being there it seems to me you must select a unit but ignore their modifiers. That makes sense. So would I be able to Deny without any units on the table, do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I still think not. As following that thought if you cannot select a unit youve not fulfilled the first point of selecting any unit. I completely get where people are coming from with the whole "how do you select a unit when one wasnt targeted" but if you go with that train of thought then that makes this sentence "but do not apply any modifiers" completely useless and meaningless. The only way that sentence works is if youve first selected a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 I still think not. As following that thought if you cannot select a unit youve not fulfilled the first point of selecting any unit. I completely get where people are coming from with the whole "how do you select a unit when one wasnt targeted" but if you go with that train of thought then that makes this sentence "but do not apply any modifiers" completely useless and meaningless. The only way that sentence works is if youve first selected a unit. that actually makes super sense lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295632-the-aegis/page/2/#findComment-3795868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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