Battle for the Abyss and other BL novels

[Captain Nameless]

Well,

[Archaon9]

 

At this point the Imperium is actually not a bad empire for a citizen to live in.

Unless you're a psyker getting sacrificed to the Astronomicon, a child born in a subterranean dungeon like those the original Night Lords were recruited from, a child that is slated to be lobomotized and augmented to create a cherub, anyone outside the upper class living on a Forge World or a Hive World, someone living on Baal, Fenris, or Medusa being forcibly kept in barbarism so that your kids will be suitable recruits for the Legio Astartes....and so on. And so forth.

 

If this is "not a bad empire to live in", I would hate to see what a bad one looks like.

 

As far as I'm aware in 40K life in the Tau empire would be the nicest.

A bad one would be the 40K Imperium. At least in 30K they knew how technology worked, higher ups cared somewhat about the people working for them. They helped free humanity from aliens, daemons etc rather than just killing everyone.

[Wade Garrett]

Not to be rude, but have you actually read any of the Horus Heresy novels?

 

Because the inhabitants of the False Terra that fell to the Luna Wolves in "Horus Rising", the Diasporex civilization that Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim butchered in "Fulgrim", and the people whose planet Vulkan incinerated in "Promethean Sun" would be very surprised to hear that they were being freed from xenos and daemons, and not being slaughtered wholesale by brainwashed supersoldiers.

[evilmittens]

well, I have read every HH book, and most of the 40k books.   I am going to just say this, its my honest opinion (opinion here brothers), I have not read a horrible BL book.  

 

Some are awesome, some great, some wonderful, some decent, some good, some ok, and on and on and on....

 

My point is this, we all have tastes and "legion/chapter" loyalties.  We are a niche hobby, and a niche book line with lots of choices and ideas.  Its a great thing we have so many choices and books available to us and legions of people wanting to writing to us.

 

Battle of the Abyss, ok book, issues with pacing and other things.  But a fun idea, for an attack on the ultramarine. 

[Archaon9]

Not to be rude, but have you actually read any of the Horus Heresy novels?

 

Because the inhabitants of the False Terra that fell to the Luna Wolves in "Horus Rising", the Diasporex civilization that Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim butchered in "Fulgrim", and the people whose planet Vulkan incinerated in "Promethean Sun" would be very surprised to hear that they were being freed from xenos and daemons, and not being slaughtered wholesale by brainwashed supersoldiers.

Yes, apart from some of the latest novellas.

I started off by saying "it was not a bad empire for a citizen to live in" (meaning as well as 30K/40K standards allow anyway). 30K Imperium is better to live in than in 40K. Broadly speaking life is fine, technology is at a good level, there's military forces to stop invasion from others. I'll grant humans would have a better life in the Tau empire but apart from that it only gets worse in the long run.

 

Yes, so the Imperium forcefully takes over when they won't join peacefully or have different beliefs. Most empires in warhammer or history do this.

The Romans killed people when conquering. It was still a better life being a Roman citizen than not though. The examples you've given are all true, but then if the Great crusade never happened to them do you think that those same empires would stand up to all the forces that were killed off, Orks, Eldar pirates, untrained psykers and so forth. I can't see the Diasporex or the planets you mentioned taking on Ork Waaghs with much success.

 

These books are obviously going to feature warfare. It'd get dull pretty quick if we covered the peaceful events in much detail. They've mentioned systems were happy to join in Horus rising as side notes. 

Soldiers are going to be killed in war. Some primarchs like Angron, Curze etc are going to just slaughter everyone. That's why they were going to be sanctioned. Most of the sane primarchs try and integrate other empires into the Imperium without bloodshed if possible. 

 

If we're talking short term about the "nice" places you're absolutely right, long term however these ideal civilizations need the Imperiums protection.

 

well, I have read every HH book, and most of the 40k books.   I am going to just say this, its my honest opinion (opinion here brothers), I have not read a horrible BL book.  

 

Some are awesome, some great, some wonderful, some decent, some good, some ok, and on and on and on....

 

My point is this, we all have tastes and "legion/chapter" loyalties.  We are a niche hobby, and a niche book line with lots of choices and ideas.  Its a great thing we have so many choices and books available to us and legions of people wanting to writing to us.

 

Battle of the Abyss, ok book, issues with pacing and other things.  But a fun idea, for an attack on the ultramarine. 

I'm the same. A few of the books I've read and not been into but have liked more with a 2nd read. Possibly because I was basing them on the quality set by the 1st three. Battle of the Abyss is the weakest of the series in my opinion but I didn't hate it, just thought it was ok. Even legions I'm not fond of I've enjoyed reading about.

[Wade Garrett]

It was still a better life being a Roman citizen than not though.

Unless you were one of the gladiators enslaved and forced to fight for other's amusement like Spartacus, a religious leader suspected of dissent like Yeshua bar Joseph, etc, etc.

 

As far as Ork WAGGHS go, we know the Orkish race is drawn to conflict and the chances for "a good krumpin".

 

Without a hyper militarized autocracy stomping its way across the stars, it's very likely we wouldn't have seen Ork hordes like the one that met the Emperor at Gorro form up in the first place.

 

Not to mention that something about the logic of "Be thankful we brutally conquered and enslaved you because otherwise greenskins would have brutally conquered and enslaved you" seems off to me.

[Archaon9]

 

It was still a better life being a Roman citizen than not though.

Unless you were one of the gladiators enslaved and forced to fight for other's amusement like Spartacus, a religious leader suspected of dissent like Yeshua bar Joseph, etc, etc.

 

As far as Ork WAGGHS go, we know the Orkish race is drawn to conflict and the chances for "a good krumpin".

 

Without a hyper militarized autocracy stomping its way across the stars, it's very likely we wouldn't have seen Ork hordes like the one that met the Emperor at Gorro form up in the first place.

 

Not to mention that something about the logic of "Be thankful we brutally conquered and enslaved you because otherwise greenskins would have brutally conquered and enslaved you" seems off to me.

 

I'm not sure. The Orks population would keep growing, they've got to go somewhere. If they don't hear of a good fight they'll go looking for one.

Depends on what Orks do when they're not fighting. If stay dormant until provoked then the Imperium messed up big time.

 

Well it's a bad choice. Much worse for you and future generations to be Ork slaves than lots of your fellows die but at least future Imperial citizens born on the planet aren't abused.

 

This goes to the "couldn't we just leave them alone" question that gets raised in Horus Rising. Tactically bad idea, and the Emperor is a Tyrant so he's not going to stop because of morality.

[Hyaenidae]

Alright, people, I'm pulling out my inner Drill Sergeant; I'm not screaming, I'm simply speaking in a voice that everyone can hear.

 

I get that this hobby is something we're all passionate about. More so the story line and fluff, as this is the absolute spirit of the 30k/40k realm. 

 

Having said that, the number of rude, disrespectful, insulting and inflammatory comments in this thread, subtle or otherwise, is damn near galling.

 

Either speak with respect to your fellow brothers and sisters as we discuss these stories and books, or I'm going to incinerate this whole thread with Phosphex, lock it in place, and comb through it to find if any further, more serious, actions are required.

 

Act like adults, post with respect, hold yourself to a higher standard, or don't post at all.

 

=][=

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Go ahead and kill it. I quit responding a while ago.