Where to start?

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Hello All,

 

I have a post here where I ask the question how does one get started in 40k, more specifically I want to ask you the knowledge base of the Lion where does one start out on their journey from The Rock? I am looking to build a army that will be around 1,500 points but that I will be able to have many options in play style. 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Buy Dark vengeance box. you get rules and all models are useable. Plus ou can sell the chaos stuff to finance further purchases.

[Cyfax]

Personally I started with the two horus heresy books, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. This gives you more insight into the horus heresy for the Dark Angels, so I think it is a good starting point. Additionally I can recommend to read Angels of Darkness > Ravenwing > Master of Sanctity (which is the chronological order) to get more insight into the current state of the Dark Angels.

I think those are good to get into the background of the Dark Angels, further I really enjoyed The Unremembered Empire. Pandorax and the audiobooks are fun too, although not necessarily a must read as far as I'm concerned. I have not read Primarchs (The Lion) yet or Age of Darkness (Savage Weapons) but from what I see here on the forums they are supposed to be good too.

The 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels' was alright too if you want more info on the current leaders of the Dark Angels

Edit: I interpreted knowledge as fluff, else yeah go with Chaplain Lucifers plan

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Personally I started with the two horus heresy books, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. This gives you more insight into the horus heresy for the Dark Angels, so I think it is a good starting point. Additionally I can recommend to read Angels of Darkness > Ravenwing > Master of Sanctity (which is the chronological order) to get more insight into the current state of the Dark Angels.

I think those are good to get into the background of the Dark Angels, further I really enjoyed The Unremembered Empire. Pandorax and the audiobooks are fun too, although not necessarily a must read as far as I'm concerned. I have not read Primarchs (The Lion) yet or Age of Darkness (Savage Weapons) but from what I see here on the forums they are supposed to be good too.

The 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels' was alright too if you want more info on the current leaders of the Dark Angels

Edit: I interpreted knowledge as fluff, else yeah go with Chaplain Lucifers plan

Buy Dark vengeance box. you get rules and all models are useable. Plus ou can sell the chaos stuff to finance further purchases.

That seems to be the route I was going, now I have army builder and it was telling me as i understand the Dark Vengence Set

645 Points:

Company Master - Bolt Pistol / Power Sword

Librarian - Bolt Pistol / Force Sword

Tactical Squad -

Deathwing Terminator Squad -

Ravenwing Attack Squad -

Now Army builder says that I don't have enough Troops with that setup, mind you I can't seem to find a file to get for the 7th edition which is what is the current version, did it change?

Personally I started with the two horus heresy books, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. This gives you more insight into the horus heresy for the Dark Angels, so I think it is a good starting point. Additionally I can recommend to read Angels of Darkness > Ravenwing > Master of Sanctity (which is the chronological order) to get more insight into the current state of the Dark Angels.

I think those are good to get into the background of the Dark Angels, further I really enjoyed The Unremembered Empire. Pandorax and the audiobooks are fun too, although not necessarily a must read as far as I'm concerned. I have not read Primarchs (The Lion) yet or Age of Darkness (Savage Weapons) but from what I see here on the forums they are supposed to be good too.

The 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels' was alright too if you want more info on the current leaders of the Dark Angels

Edit: I interpreted knowledge as fluff, else yeah go with Chaplain Lucifers plan

Ah nice, i'm currently on the Flight of the Eisenstein, so i'm sure i will come up on that quickly :)

[johnyocum]

Easy way to get troops out of that box: 1) make the tac squad into 2 squads  2) make the company master into Azrael (if you have our codex), as the company master is armed the right way (remember that combi-plasma on his back) and would then turn all of the non-HQ models into troops.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Easy way to get troops out of that box: 1) make the tac squad into 2 squads  2) make the company master into Azrael (if you have our codex), as the company master is armed the right way (remember that combi-plasma on his back) and would then turn all of the non-HQ models into troops.

 

Awesome, yea I am still trying to learn things like this haha. Once I think I understand something another thing like say that company master is Azrael haha comes up and I go what lol So thats kewl. 

[Cyfax]

Army wise Dark Vengeance is a very good place to start, further additions that come to mind starting with DV:

- Another tactical squad, can't really go wrong with two 10man tactical squads. You can use them as 10, in kill point missions or split them up for objective scoring

 

- Consider getting 1-2 razorbacks. Why Razorback? There is only a minor price difference between Rhino and RB, and its essentially the same kit. You can make the top hatch, as well as a turret 'hatch' so you can field them as both. I like Rhino's to protect my tacticals who are supposed to grab objectives.

 

- Additional bikers, depending on your budget Ravenwing (Dark Angels) Battleforce is not a bad idea. This gives you additional bikers so you can field a 6 man squad, attack bike and a land speeder. (admittedly I personally hardly ever use land speeders, big fan of bikes though)

 

- My personal favorite is a 10man 4x lascannon devastator squad, works -every- time, combined with a librarian.. good against anything.

 

That is pretty much how I started my own DA army as well

 

Edit: For 1500 points, I'd consider getting black knights too

[Brother dean]

 

Easy way to get troops out of that box: 1) make the tac squad into 2 squads  2) make the company master into Azrael (if you have our codex), as the company master is armed the right way (remember that combi-plasma on his back) and would then turn all of the non-HQ models into troops.

 

Awesome, yea I am still trying to learn things like this haha. Once I think I understand something another thing like say that company master is Azrael haha comes up and I go what lol So thats kewl. 

 

He is "just" a company master..  However he is armed perfectly to *represent* Azrael on the table, just as the Librarian is perfectly armed to *represent* Ezekial on the table.  Now they are not the official model for either character but there is sometimes a great deal of *representing* going on in this game because it is a new model, an expensive model or someone just wanted to build their own model.  In game and forum lingo we call such *representing*, "counts as".

 

Edit:  It is polite to run through all the Counts as models while you are setting up for a game, just so your opponent knows beforehand.

[JJD]

I posted the same thing recently in another thread but if your starting out I can't recommend a couple of dark vengeance box sets enough. That's were I started a couple of years ago. Firstly it's great value for money. They are also super easy to assemble but with a raven wing upgrade and a box of veterans and little work can be very customisable see this thread for example. You can ebay the chaos stuff if you don't want them.

 

With 2 Dark Vengeance sets you will have a playable army with 4hqs 2 troops two elites and a full squad of bikes for fast attack. Once they are all assembled give it a play and see what aspects you enjoy most. Both the DW knights and black knight are fantastic boxes with loads of DA bits to add to your bits box and I would strongly recommend them too.

 

Edited repeatedly for dyslexia.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

I posted the same thing recently in another thread but if your starting out I can't recommend a couple of dark vengeance box sets enough. That's were I started a couple of years ago. Firstly it's great value for money. They are also super easy to assemble but with a raven wing upgrade and a box of veterans and little work can be very customisable see this thread for example. You can ebay the chaos stuff if you don't want them.

 

With 2 Dark Vengeance sets you will have a playable army with 4hqs 2 troops two elites and a full squad of bikes for fast attack. Once they are all assembled give it a play and see what aspects you enjoy most. Both the DW knights and black knight are fantastic boxes with loads of DA bits to add to your bits box and I would strongly recommend them too.

 

Edited repeatedly for dyslexia.

 

Wow that looks awesome, also looks like out of my league as someone who hasn't even put anything together or painted yet :)

[Brother dean]

You can do it with some basic stuff.  The plastic kits have great interchangeability.

[JJD]

I was in the same position as you 2 years ago which is why I recommend a couple of DV sets as that is where I started myself. The DV stuff is really easy to put together as well as having all the bits you will need to start playing such as rules and dice etc.

 

I built and painted the first of my DV sets as it comes but when I got to the second set I was ready to try a few head and weapon swaps. Once you master the basic techniques the sky's the limit.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

I was in the same position as you 2 years ago which is why I recommend a couple of DV sets as that is where I started myself. The DV stuff is really easy to put together as well as having all the bits you will need to start playing such as rules and dice etc.

 

I built and painted the first of my DV sets as it comes but when I got to the second set I was ready to try a few head and weapon swaps. Once you master the basic techniques the sky's the limit.

 

For those of you who bought 2-3 copies of this set, did you just sell the 2 extra book sets ectera on Ebay? 

 

I thought i might keep one of the cultists sets to do some kewl bases, like a Terminator crushing a cultists face with his foot ectera. The rest just sell on ebay or find someone at my local game who plays chaos to take them off my hand. 

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Also if you like Terminators or bikes look on ebay and look for the Dark Vengeance models. They run about half as much as a regular box and while the poses will be the same much cheaper and easier way to get a full 100 Terminators for Deathwing. But oh god the painting of it all............my hands still shake and eyes are bloodshot.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Also if you like Terminators or bikes look on ebay and look for the Dark Vengeance models. They run about half as much as a regular box and while the poses will be the same much cheaper and easier way to get a full 100 Terminators for Deathwing. But oh god the painting of it all............my hands still shake and eyes are bloodshot.

 

Haha,

 

So do we have the # of units in the Chapter? If i recall no one really knows what they have because they never said pre-legion to chapter period. I guess the real question I am asking is what is the LARGEST game that you could possibly play within the 40k rules? I assume thats something in Apocalypse?

[Tanyr]

You don't even have to look for strictly the DV models, either. Strike Force Ultra has caused even regular tactical/assault terminators to plunge in price. Our Ravenwing Battle Force is an excellent deal, as well. However, Dark Vengeance is still probably the best way to get into the hobby cheaply. Simply make sure that if you do buy the DV boxed set, you buy the newest one with the updated rules. 

 

Our precise number of units is completely up in the air. While the 3rd through 10th are documented, our first two companies could be virtually any size. I doubt they're that much larger than 100 marines, though. Given the close nature of the Dark Angel's and their successors, there's little difference in command structure between chapter's, they're all Unforgiven. Why risk drawing attention to ourselves when we can easily obey the silly 1,000 astartes per chapter rule, and just make a new successor chapter upon "request"?

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Personally I started with the two horus heresy books, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. This gives you more insight into the horus heresy for the Dark Angels, so I think it is a good starting point. Additionally I can recommend to read Angels of Darkness > Ravenwing > Master of Sanctity (which is the chronological order) to get more insight into the current state of the Dark Angels.

I think those are good to get into the background of the Dark Angels, further I really enjoyed The Unremembered Empire. Pandorax and the audiobooks are fun too, although not necessarily a must read as far as I'm concerned. I have not read Primarchs (The Lion) yet or Age of Darkness (Savage Weapons) but from what I see here on the forums they are supposed to be good too.

The 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels' was alright too if you want more info on the current leaders of the Dark Angels

Edit: I interpreted knowledge as fluff, else yeah go with Chaplain Lucifers plan

Aside from the Horus Hersey books, are all these available from the Black Library ? or Barnes and Nobles ecetera?

[twopounder]

Personally I started with the two horus heresy books, Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. This gives you more insight into the horus heresy for the Dark Angels, so I think it is a good starting point. Additionally I can recommend to read Angels of Darkness > Ravenwing > Master of Sanctity (which is the chronological order) to get more insight into the current state of the Dark Angels.

I think those are good to get into the background of the Dark Angels, further I really enjoyed The Unremembered Empire. Pandorax and the audiobooks are fun too, although not necessarily a must read as far as I'm concerned. I have not read Primarchs (The Lion) yet or Age of Darkness (Savage Weapons) but from what I see here on the forums they are supposed to be good too.

The 'Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels' was alright too if you want more info on the current leaders of the Dark Angels

Edit: I interpreted knowledge as fluff, else yeah go with Chaplain Lucifers plan

Aside from the Horus Hersey books, are all these available from the Black Library ? or Barnes and Nobles ecetera?

Sometimes you can find them at regular book stores, Amazon or Black Library will be the only way to guarantee you can find the book you're looking for.

[Cyfax]

All of the books I mentioned are available at either the Black Library or Games Workshop. I am from the Netherlands so I can't say much about Barnes and noble, I usually buy my books at my local games workshop.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

Ok awesome!

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

I posted the same thing recently in another thread but if your starting out I can't recommend a couple of dark vengeance box sets enough. That's were I started a couple of years ago. Firstly it's great value for money. They are also super easy to assemble but with a raven wing upgrade and a box of veterans and little work can be very customisable see this thread for example. You can ebay the chaos stuff if you don't want them.

 

With 2 Dark Vengeance sets you will have a playable army with 4hqs 2 troops two elites and a full squad of bikes for fast attack. Once they are all assembled give it a play and see what aspects you enjoy most. Both the DW knights and black knight are fantastic boxes with loads of DA bits to add to your bits box and I would strongly recommend them too.

 

Edited repeatedly for dyslexia.

 

I love the guys on the bikes like the Librarian and the Tech Marine, my wonder is how does that actually work in the game? Is it just a basically tech or librarian but then you give it the added benefits of being on a bike? Is that in a different codex or something you would have to completely come up with on your own and your match partner would have to agree to ?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I'm on a horus heresy kick right now. I can't recommend Savage weapons and the Lion enough. Also Unremembered Empire has a surprisingly large amount of DA information in it including the Lion. As for numbers last codex said we have around 100 deathwing per chapter (so considered around the same amount for successors as well) now its the "mysterious number" but I would say still around 100. There is a story (I can't remember maybe other brothers can help) that has a Deathwing character taking charge of a mixed Space Marine force because it is "accepted" he is the most talented and oldest by virtue of being deathwing.

 

For game sizes largest I played was a Non Apoc 4500 point game. It took a long time to set  up but was a lot of fun. If you've got the right group to play against it is about perfect.

 

DoC

[twopounder]

 

I posted the same thing recently in another thread but if your starting out I can't recommend a couple of dark vengeance box sets enough. That's were I started a couple of years ago. Firstly it's great value for money. They are also super easy to assemble but with a raven wing upgrade and a box of veterans and little work can be very customisable see this thread for example. You can ebay the chaos stuff if you don't want them.

 

With 2 Dark Vengeance sets you will have a playable army with 4hqs 2 troops two elites and a full squad of bikes for fast attack. Once they are all assembled give it a play and see what aspects you enjoy most. Both the DW knights and black knight are fantastic boxes with loads of DA bits to add to your bits box and I would strongly recommend them too.

 

Edited repeatedly for dyslexia.

 

I love the guys on the bikes like the Librarian and the Tech Marine, my wonder is how does that actually work in the game? Is it just a basically tech or librarian but then you give it the added benefits of being on a bike? Is that in a different codex or something you would have to completely come up with on your own and your match partner would have to agree to ?

 

 

Yes, that's exactly how it works. A bike is an upgrade that effects the model's movement and toughness. Keep in mind that these upgrades are limited. You cannot, for example, take terminator armor and a bike. It's part of the Dark Angel codex and your opponent technically doesn't have to agree to it, but keep in mind that anyone can decline to play you for any reason.

 

I would also not recommend playing more than 500 - 750 points until you know how to play. I think the first big mistake new players make is spending a lot of money on a big army, only to discover that it's not very effective or they don't know how to play it properly. Build as you learn and augment what you have.

 

Also, buy used stuff off ebay or craigslist. You can pick up a cheap ultrasonic cleaner and strong isopropyl alcohol to strip the paint and build an army for a more reasonable price (plus you get a lot of hobbying experience as well). Here is how mine faired. They're usually around $20 - $30. You can also get low cost carry cases that are better than the GW stuff.

[Darkn3ssF4lls]

 

 

I posted the same thing recently in another thread but if your starting out I can't recommend a couple of dark vengeance box sets enough. That's were I started a couple of years ago. Firstly it's great value for money. They are also super easy to assemble but with a raven wing upgrade and a box of veterans and little work can be very customisable see this thread for example. You can ebay the chaos stuff if you don't want them.

 

With 2 Dark Vengeance sets you will have a playable army with 4hqs 2 troops two elites and a full squad of bikes for fast attack. Once they are all assembled give it a play and see what aspects you enjoy most. Both the DW knights and black knight are fantastic boxes with loads of DA bits to add to your bits box and I would strongly recommend them too.

 

Edited repeatedly for dyslexia.

 

I love the guys on the bikes like the Librarian and the Tech Marine, my wonder is how does that actually work in the game? Is it just a basically tech or librarian but then you give it the added benefits of being on a bike? Is that in a different codex or something you would have to completely come up with on your own and your match partner would have to agree to ?

 

 

Yes, that's exactly how it works. A bike is an upgrade that effects the model's movement and toughness. Keep in mind that these upgrades are limited. You cannot, for example, take terminator armor and a bike. It's part of the Dark Angel codex and your opponent technically doesn't have to agree to it, but keep in mind that anyone can decline to play you for any reason.

 

I would also not recommend playing more than 500 - 750 points until you know how to play. I think the first big mistake new players make is spending a lot of money on a big army, only to discover that it's not very effective or they don't know how to play it properly. Build as you learn and augment what you have.

 

Also, buy used stuff off ebay or craigslist. You can pick up a cheap ultrasonic cleaner and strong isopropyl alcohol to strip the paint and build an army for a more reasonable price (plus you get a lot of hobbying experience as well). Here is how mine faired. They're usually around $20 - $30. You can also get low cost carry cases that are better than the GW stuff.

 

Right now I don't have a real army, just picked up a Dark Vengeance set off of Ebay, just waiting on it to arrive. 

I don't think i'm planning on buying much more then this box set for now untill A) their painted B) I get a grasp for the game C) I know what my play style is

 

I am thinking of fielding a all Ravenwing army next time I play, the GM is kind enough to let me have access to his DA models for game days. So I can basically supplement or augment my DV set or just use his stuff to test out things before I buy them. 

[MadMek83]

Lol, I bought Dark Vengeance box.... Now I sit 2000+ points Deathwing Alone... Just beware.