Augustus Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I was looking for some more information on the watchpacks. Were they sent to enforce Nikea? Or ensure the loyal Primarchs stay loyal? Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 They were sent to watch the Primarchs for any sign of treachery following the Razing. In oter words, while no one took Magnus' warning of Horus turning traitor seriously, Malcador was paranoid enough to send out eyes and ears. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3791055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Thanks Kol. Now I wonder where Horus' watchpack went (if he even got one) and the Lion's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3791669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Thanks Kol. Now I wonder where Horus' watchpack went (if he even got one) and the Lion's. I'd be surprised if the Lion tolerated a "watch pack" given the already burgeoning rivalry between the two legions, as seen in Unremembered Empire. Additionally, the Emperor explicitly told Malcador in no uncertain terms that he knew the Lion would be loyal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3791688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 They were sent to watch the Primarchs for any sign of treachery following the Razing. In oter words, while no one took Magnus' warning of Horus turning traitor seriously, Malcador was paranoid enough to send out eyes and ears. Who was "no one" though? The Emperor, Malcador and maybe Valdor? Anyone who was actually there doubtfully had any idea what was going on, and outside of them, who would be told? I don't even see Dorn being briefed on the details. I think it more reasonable that it was when word came down that Magnus was right that the Sigillite went paranoid and ordered packs of chihuahuas to watch over a dozen Tibetan Mastiffs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3791736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Malcador took it seriously enough to send order Russ to send out the Watch Packs to watch for signs of treachery, not signs of breaking with the Edict. So "no one" does not include Malcador as he was just paranoid enough to watch for it anyways, even if he didn't believe it was going to happen. But that's the kicker? Did the Emperor tell Malcador? If the Emperor didn't, then Malcador was the right paranoid man in the right position, even if he did move too late. If the Emperor did tell Malcador about it, then why didn't the Emperor order Russ to send out the Watch Packs? If he had the time to explain everything to Malcador, then he could have just cut out the middle man like he did when Corax was on Terra. So when I say "no one", I refer specifically to the Emperor ecause other than telling Russ to arrest Magnus for breaking the Edict, the Emperor seemed to make no other move about what Magnus told him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3791777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The Space Wolf packs were sent to the surviving Loyalist Primarchs after the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre. The rationale being that if one can fall, more can fall. Half have fallen. As for the Lion and the pack assigned to him, I won't be surprised if he gave them all the Caliban haircut (head punched off) and ejected the bodies into the void, assuming that pack even reached him in time. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Haha. Caliban haircut. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Excuse me if I'm wrong,since been it's a long time since I've read FtT, but doesn't the watch pack sent to watch over sanguinus get delivered by some WB? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The Lion is the secretive type. I highly doubt that he would have tolerated a pack from a rival Legion camped right outside his chamber. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 As MasterofMankind said above, a watch pack joins up with the Blood Angels before the Heresy is declared/known. I don't know the exact dates but didn't Istvaan 3 and Signus Prime happen roughly the same time? Adding in the time it would have taken for the Watch Packs to mobilise and join up with their respective charges, imo it looks more likely that they were sent out after Magnus breached the wards of the Imperial Dungeon. Either because of Magnus' warning about Horus or because Magnus broke the Edict. Or maybe both? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Signus Prime was roughly around the same time as Istvaan III. It was before Istvaan V as while the Blood Angels only experienced a year in the Signus Cluster, they disappeared from Imperial contact for four years, long enough for Malcador to attempt to claim them as "deceased" and try to seize their homeworld and territories for his own goals(most likely the building of the GK or the reinforcement of the Fists). But it was most definitely after Prospero and before the Heresy's official(optimum word) start date, which was Istvaan V. I encourage everyone to listen to Hunter's Moon. It deals with the watchpack that was sent to watch over Alpharius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 So the watch packs were sent to make sure the legions observe the edict of Nikea rather than to watch for treachery? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thats what I always thought...the DS Mass just added to the watchpacks "workload" WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No, Word Bearer chaplains were sent out to ensure the Edict was obeyed(Deliverance Lost). The Watch Packs were sent to watch out for treachery with the Edict being a convenient excuse in the wake of Magnus warning of betrayal with the Razing serving as a "See? It happened here, it could happen elsewhere." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I dont take anything from Deliverance Lost serious. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Then listen to the Hunter's Moon where the Space Wolf says the Watch Packs were sent to look for treachery, not enforce the Edict. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Isn't the Word Bearers Chaplain thing pre-Thorpe? I seem to recall something like that long before the novels got into it, maybe in one of the IAs or Visions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 so the Wolves were sent to look for treachery...prior to the kickoff of the Heresy? WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Isn't the Word Bearers Chaplain thing pre-Thorpe? I seem to recall something like that long before the novels got into it, maybe in one of the IAs or Visions.The First Heretic mentions that there were Chaplains being sent out as part of the effort to create the warrior lodges within the various Legions. Deliverance Lost just adds a little side point that some were sent out to ensure the Edict was carried out. Yes, the Wolves were sent out to look for treachery after a certain Primarch blew a hole in reality underneath the Imperial Palace trying to warn everyone that the Heresy was coming. It was an effort to be cautious just in case Magnus hadn't completely flipped his gasket. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No, I am pretty sure there was mention of Malcador being impressed with the World Bearers chaplains, and wanted the practice spread to ensure compliance. Or something like that. The more I think of it, I think it is in the Visions set . . . Edit: Yes, page 150-151 of the most recent Visions book. The Chaplains Edict. I don't have access to the older Visions at the moment, but I know it is in there too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Ah, I don't have any of the visions so I was unaware of that. What exactly does it say, if I might ask? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Basically, Malcador didn't quite believe that all of the Primarchs would follow the Emperor's decree, so when the Emperor was busy with the Webway, Malcador issued the Order of Observance. It essentially created the 40k morale officer Chaplains we are all aware of, and were to ensure loyalty to the Emperor by enforcing the psyker ban. The Word Bearers are specifically mentioned as being his inspiration. It also mentions that Lorgar found it ironic, as he and his Legion were already well along their path to damnation. Finally, it mentions that not all all Primarchs responded immediately, which was blamed on bad communications in a galactic empire, and that some were deliberately lying, but doesn't list them. It has images of two Chaplains, Xavier the Salamander and Berus the Blood Angel. Though Fear to Tread adds some extra levels of info on the Blood Angels there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 And IIRC, there was an EC Chaplain in Galaxy in Flames. Chairosean, or something like that. The liars are most likely the Alpha Legion and World Eaters while the Space Wolves and White Scars most likely just ignored it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3793972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Old fluff had it that only the world bearers chaplains became traitor, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295853-watchdog-i-mean-packs/#findComment-3794017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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