My opinion on the new codex

[Madmaardigan]

There's a lot of anger towards our knights new codex right now and I've looked at two situations;

 

1) If you a pure army list player that wants a balanced well rounded list with tons of options grey knight are not for you even with the 5th codex there was only a 2-3 winning strategies but they we're all the same in that you just spamm'd the same thing, cheap henchman, or expensive pallies or ludicrously expensive NDK's. (I'm not saying other lists couldn't win just that the army wasn't super well rounded like others

 

2) if your a fluff player that enjoy what your grey knights are then you need to remember grey knights a specialists they live to fight chaos, and not even CSM, but daemons that is their focus, and when the do fight the often do so with only single squads stretched out only on the rarest of Daemonic incursions to they bring a brotherhood to bare. So fluff wise we are actually pretty well off in terms of we are now our own thing again.

 

In conclusion many may hate this but more for the fluff players we're not going to play a game with only 5 models on the board to satisfy the fluff of 1 squad doing insane amounts of work.

Now we have what we need I seventh in that we are battle bro's with everyone in the imperium this satisfies the ability to balance out our list for the tactics guys that just want to play competitively AND it satisfies the fluff in that whenever grey knights go to combat a daemon if incursion it is often times with the very intimate inclusion of other imperial forces. I for one like the new changes in terms of what our knights bring to the table now which is a lot more bang for there buck.

 

I may get steamrolled or trashed for saying this but I am kinda sick of the negativity start looking at the positives.

 

V, like a day after the spoiler came out had knocked out a sick looking space wolf ally list that utilized drop pod melts support for anti tank. That awsome I wish we had more of that

[Captain Coolpants]

Although I agree in some ways, I have to disagree. Although fluff players and such can't complain because we're built to fight daemons. But 'in game', most armies do a better job by just standing there and shoting said daemons.

 

And speaking of in game, that's exactly it, it's a game, that's *meant* to have ballance.

 

I.e. . Meaning no matter what army you choose, you'll always have a decent 50/50ish (emphasis on the ish! Because of straight up strategy and such) on winning.

 

But in the real game world, there is no ballance really. Many lists/builds stop many other lists/builds dead. And it's seems more so for us solely because it's a shooty edition, most armies don't bother, just stand there and shoot us to death. Because we cannot shoot very well compared to other armies (in terms of low ap and range) so we try to get into our only niche, which is combat, which is almost impossible

[Captain Coolpants]

I HATE being a complainer. And I never want to he just another marine dex. But at times... You just can't help but look at other armies and think, why can't I do that?

 

Although all our problems can be fixed by allies... But some of us (myself included) love knights and want to use them solely.

[Ishagu]

Grey Knights are the best at killing Tyranids lol

[Captain Coolpants]

Grey Knights are the best at killing Tyranids lol

Storm bolters and force Psylencers ftw!! Lmao

[Ishagu]

Just to add, in the fluff it's rare for Grey Knights to battle threats alone from other Imperial Forces.

 

I actually think the new codex is fine. It's not full of variety or multiple auto include units like Wave Serpents, Heldrakes or Riptides, but it can still perform well.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

1) If you a pure army list player that wants a balanced well rounded list with tons of options grey knight are not for you even with the 5th codex there was only a 2-3 winning strategies but they we're all the same in that you just spamm'd the same thing, cheap henchman, or expensive pallies or ludicrously expensive NDK's. (I'm not saying other lists couldn't win just that the army wasn't super well rounded like others

Oh, I'm sorry. I bought an expensive army book, and I expected unit variety. Silly me .

2) if your a fluff player that enjoy what your grey knights are then you need to remember grey knights a specialists they live to fight chaos, and not even CSM, but daemons that is their focus, and when the do fight the often do so with only single squads stretched out only on the rarest of Daemonic incursions to they bring a brotherhood to bare. So fluff wise we are actually pretty well off in terms of we are now our own thing again.

I think the background is more toned down now, which will shut up the whingers from 5th (along with the cult that believed we ruined 5th). The background is great IMO, its the rules that fall down a lot of the time.

In conclusion many may hate this but more for the fluff players we're not going to play a game with only 5 models on the board to satisfy the fluff of 1 squad doing insane amounts of work.

Now we have what we need I seventh in that we are battle bro's with everyone in the imperium this satisfies the ability to balance out our list for the tactics guys that just want to play competitively AND it satisfies the fluff in that whenever grey knights go to combat a daemon if incursion it is often times with the very intimate inclusion of other imperial forces. I for one like the new changes in terms of what our knights bring to the table now which is a lot more bang for there buck.

What, so you like being relegated to an Ally codex? If that's what you're after, I would suggest playing Sisters or even Inquisition. They're micro-armies that barely anyone uses, and if they do its as additions to a more solid army base (ie usually Marines or AM).

Knights are a Chapter, we're meant to function against all enemies we encounter. We typically operate with zero support from local Imperial forces, and we often mindwipe or purge them anyway after a joint operation.

I may get steamrolled or trashed for saying this but I am kinda sick of the negativity start looking at the positives.

There is stuff to be happy about, but that doesn't mean GW gets a free pass for what they did. We lost unit variety, we lost army builds, and we lost flexibility. They even managed to make some of our worst units even worse (vis a vis, Purgators and Tech-Marines). We're saddled with the awful Salvo rules on our signature special weapon, because they want to sell Terminator boxes. There is a lot of transparent 'we did this so you'll buy our new kits' moves in the rules. One of the classics is the changes to nemesis weapons. Falchions are the new black, whereas halberds are now very unwhelming and staves unusable on anyone but the Libarian. You also have weird things like Dreadknights getting buffed, when really they were fine (a tad overpriced, but not unplayable).

I.e. . Meaning no matter what army you choose, you'll always have a decent 50/50ish (emphasis on the ish! Because of straight up strategy and such) on winning.

But in the real game world, there is no ballance really. Many lists/builds stop many other lists/builds dead. And it's seems more so for us solely because it's a shooty edition, most armies don't bother, just stand there and shoot us to death. Because we cannot shoot very well compared to other armies (in terms of low ap and range) so we try to get into our only niche, which is combat, which is almost impossible

40k has never been balanced, and likely never will be. There have always been terrible armies (hell, we were once in contention for 'worst army' when we still had our 3rd edition codex), and always been the top tier ones. Tau, Necrons, AM and Eldar currently dominate, and its because they have undercosted units that shoot way harder and die less easily than Imperial analogues (plus their various combos and wargear that break a lot of the game rules). The pendulum will swing the other way again I'm sure, and we'll get bored with Marines dominating tournaments (just as its boring to watch Tau steamroller even solid lists because of their Riptides and markerlights etc).

We shoot hard for Marines, and we do combat very well (better than most). We're probably the most generalist army in 40k right now, which is why we cost so much and generally are outnumbered.

I HATE being a complainer. And I never want to he just another marine dex. But at times... You just can't help but look at other armies and think, why can't I do that?

Although all our problems can be fixed by allies... But some of us (myself included) love knights and want to use them solely.

GW are trying to section off parts of the game from certain races. As a few examples;

- Tau are never allowed to fight in melee effectively (ignoring Farsight, because he's literally their only hope)

- Guard are never allowed to have good armour saves on anything, and win by attrition and drowning their enemies in superior numbers+shots

- Knights aren't allowed to have good anti-tank or anti-monster ranged options, because apparently we always get into melee super quick and thus Riptides are balanced

(shrug) I mean, its not like PsyDreads were even that powerful. They were just so far ahead of anything else in the 5th edition book, they became a staple fire support unit (because they did the job Purgators have failed to do for 3 editions of our codex now).

Grey Knights are the best at killing Tyranids lol

Yeah haha, they always shudder to go up against us. Like with Orks, we sorta win at deployment. The chaff is shredded without effort, and we force weapon their big stuff. The only annoyance with Nids is their FMC's, which we need Allies for (Throne forbid they'd give us Skyfire outside of the Raven ).

[Ishagu]

 

Grey Knights are the best at killing Tyranids lol

Storm bolters and force Psylencers ftw!! Lmao

Seeing as Tyranids will engage you in cc, and GK can insta kill most Monstrous creatures...

[Ishagu]

Anyway, I want to say that I personally like the simplicity and grace of this new codex.

 

I've actually started collecting Grey Knights as a result this week, and will sell off a few of my other armies to make room :-D

[BladeGaurd]

2) if your a fluff player that enjoy what your grey knights are then you need to remember grey knights a specialists they live to fight chaos, and not even CSM, but daemons that is their focus, and when the do fight the often do so with only single squads stretched out only on the rarest of Daemonic incursions to they bring a brotherhood to bare. So fluff wise we are actually pretty well off in terms of we are now our own thing again.

 

 

Yet we have almost nothing to shoot down FMC that are common in daemonic armies and our infantry is woefully unprepared for soul grinders in anything but hand to hand combat, which will spell doom for most of them from 5th ed codex on when our hammers lost strike at initiative vs daemons.

I love the idea of a specialized force for fighting daemons but we lack some things that are required to have a decent shot, for instance if they gave us skyfire snipers and a short range lascannon range 18 inches and heavy 1 or a s8 short range plasma, I would be happier with the codex. Do I want to remove the weakness of my army, no I want to mitigate it.  I do not think this codex is ruined but I see the possibility for growth which did not occur.  I would love to see a Grey Knight take on a light rapid deployment from space artillery/support skimmer (not a landspeeder), I imagine it looking similar to Hiigaran Pulsar Gunship from homeworld 2 or the Bentusi Super Acolyte from homeworld cataclysm.

Note if we had a unit of snipers that can skyfire I would buy them because I bet they look awesome.

 

[Ishagu]

Fmc are nerfed, aside from Be'lakor...

[hornywingythingy]

 

 

Grey Knights are the best at killing Tyranids lol

Storm bolters and force Psylencers ftw!! Lmao

Seeing as Tyranids will engage you in cc, and GK can insta kill most Monstrous creatures...

Tyranids haven't been a melee centric army since nidzilla back in third/fourth. They are definitely now a shooting army it's about their only competitive option.

[boreas]

I think RD said it best. But for me, it boils down to this: I have "x" models. Now, I have the same number of models, but I must buy 3 codexes/dataslates/whatever to use them. I got no new options/model/unit (i have less, really). A lots of what I had is not as good as it was (mainly all that's PA). I'm basically paying to be shoehorned in a few lists. I'm not angry, I'm sad.

[BladeGaurd]

Fmc are nerfed, aside from Be'lakor...

Only because they have to wait one turn to charge, if they are not a charger such as a Lord of Change, who just psykic you to death, then they are still useful.

[Sete]

Anyway, I want to say that I personally like the simplicity and grace of this new codex.

 

 

Like me. Buying 1000 points worth of units after my holidays.

Small elite army.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yet we have almost nothing to shoot down FMC that are common in daemonic armies and our infantry is woefully unprepared for soul grinders in anything but hand to hand combat, which will spell doom for most of them from 5th ed codex on when our hammers lost strike at initiative vs daemons.

I love the idea of a specialized force for fighting daemons but we lack some things that are required to have a decent shot, for instance if they gave us skyfire snipers and a short range lascannon range 18 inches and heavy 1 or a s8 short range plasma, I would be happier with the codex. Do I want to remove the weakness of my army, no I want to mitigate it.  I do not think this codex is ruined but I see the possibility for growth which did not occur.  I would love to see a Grey Knight take on a light rapid deployment from space artillery/support skimmer (not a landspeeder), I imagine it looking similar to Hiigaran Pulsar Gunship from homeworld 2 or the Bentusi Super Acolyte from homeworld cataclysm.

Note if we had a unit of snipers that can skyfire I would buy them because I bet they look awesome.

^This. I'll say again (in case GW actually read the forums). Purgators are such a missed oppertunity. Skyfire, Interceptor, Tank Hunters, Monster Hunters....I mean hell, 'Ignore Cover' would even be good. But no, give them NIGHT VISION. In the background they have descriptions of Purgators laying down a hail of fire as they advance, or as they disembark from a Raven into enemy lines. Really GW? Do you even read your own weapon rules? Heavy? Salvo? Ring any bells?

/rant

 

Anyway, I want to say that I personally like the simplicity and grace of this new codex.

 

 

I'd prefer workable and flexible. We're lucky Ward gave us the Dreadknight, the Raven, Purifiers and Interceptors. Can you imagine if we'd gotten an update without those things already established? Even less units. We'd probably have been reduced to a dataslate or a Chapter tactic. 

Fmc are nerfed, aside from Be'lakor... 

Really? Dakka Flyrants seem to work just fine without ever landing on purpose. It does affect melee FMC's more than shooty ones. And you only need to look at stupidity like the 2+ cover save Nurgle Prince to see issues with Skyfire on such tough monsters. 

[Captain Coolpants]

When we had matt ward, people did nothing but complain. Now that he's gone, we miss him Lmao. If only he didn't go so overboard on the fluff. Maybe we wouldn't have had as much attention and wouldn't have felt the need to change the rules as much.

[Gentlemanloser]

But his fluff. OMG, his fluff!

 

(I still forgive him!)

[Adeptus]

Eh, his fluff was bad but it was tolerable.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well the worst offenders were retconned in the new Dex.

 

Draigo, Bloodtide.  Made much more palatable.

[boreas]

To be fair, I don't really care about codex fluff. It's usually an okay story showcasing the models. It gives you a bit of insight about the army, but never anything really profound. With BL novels coming out pretty quickly, I can access lots of very well written fluff (okay, not that much about GKs). But I'll spend a couple of hours reading the fluff and countless hours playing with the rules. And while the rules are not bad, they aren't good either. Worst, they are bland, making al those gaming hours less interesting. Of course, I can get allies. But I don't want to get a second army, find a paint scheme, build and paint non-GKs models just to be able to use my current models. I've got a Tau army to use when I want to play non-imperial. 

[Trevak Dal]

Yeah, I got Tau and Chaos myself.  I suppose I'm kinda lucky that my GK army was smaller, and Terminator heavy since I didn't have many terminators and stuff and wanted a Terminator army (My tau can do anything from ground pounder horde, mechanized, elite infantry, or anything in between) my Chaos are my assault army.

[IK Viper]

FMC's did not take a Nerf in this edition.  Assault oriented FMC's took  Nerf.  Shooting/ Summoning FMC's got better in every meaningful way.  Grounding tests are harder to force, they only test at the end of the phase, can get a better Jink save, which they also get on the ground which lets them start on the board... 

 

Not sure what logical argument could be made explaining how shooting FMC's took  nerf with 7th edition. 

[IK Viper]

I have sent an e-mail to GW asking them to explain to me how the game designers feel GK are able to compete on even footing with Tau and Eldar.   I want to hear how their play testing went assuring them that GK were able to win 50% of their games against that army.  That is their job as game designers...  Please let them know that in e-mails.  They cannot be allowed to put out a poor product and not catch flak about it. 

[thraxdown]

I don't know that this codex is going to be that bad. We've always been limited with things like destroying vehicles, no skyfire, little in the way of long range firepower.... but the strike force detachment + GOI + cheaper personal teleporters has made us very mobile which is huge in this edition. Using sanctuary to mitigate all the ap2 shooting, dropping incinerators into the opponents backfield, or using the heavy psycannons to destroy vehicles. I think there is a synergy there that will help us stay competitive. I stand by my criticisms of them taking a huge portion of our books away and not giving us anything to try and replace it with, plus the fact they made some units (dreadknights, purgators) completely useless. But all in all the doom and gloom for this codex may have been a bit premature.