Chapter Tactic: Grey Knights

[Gentlemanloser]

(Psycannons, Incinerators, Psilencers of all types and Psyk-out Grenades gone)

 

All units with CT:GK have the following rules;

Prefered Enemy: Daemons

The Aegis

Purity of Spirit

All units have BoP (PML1) and have to roll thier single power on the Banishment and Hammerhand from the Sanctic table

All charcaters can roll on :Divination, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Sanctic and Pyromancy (Thanks BladeGuard!)

 

Any Close Combat Weapon is replaced with a Force Weapon (type as per model). Special Close Combat Weapons gain the Force ability.

 

Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, Devastator Marines, Sternguard and Honour Guard *must* replace thier Bolter with a Storm bolter and gain a Close Combat Weapon for 5 points per model (or however much for balance)

Models in Terminators Armour gain Frag and Krak grenades for free.

Models with a Jump Pack may upgrade it to a Personal Teleporter for 6 points per model (or however much for balance)

Edit: Missed Purifiers and Paladin

Units of Sternguard with CT:GK have the BoP (ML2) rule, gain Cleansing Flame and must roll for one power on Banishment and Hammerhand from the Sanctic table

Units of Tactical Terminators may purchase the 'Paladin' upgrade.  Gaining WS5 and W2 for 15 points each

 

Nemesis DreadKnights can only be purchased in Detachments using Chapter Tactics: Grey Knights

 

 

Done?

 

Have I missed anything?

[Jolemai]

You'd rather be a scoop of vanilla with a grey sauce rather than a flavour in your own right?

[Gentlemanloser]

What flavour?  Grey?

 

Vanilla > Grey in flavour...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

GL please don't give GW ideas. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Seriosuly though, what would we lose?  Psycannons?  Pretty meh now for a slightly better Assault Cannon on Terminators.  Incinerators are +1S Heavy Flamers (just give our PA units the option to purchase a H Flamer).

 

The Nemesis Weapons are really not that important now.

 

Just look at what we'd gain.  In codex scouts (Inquisitorial accolytes).  Land Speeders.  Jump Packs (Personal Teleporters) for our ICs. Tanks. Storm Shields.

 

We'd finally be a Marine Chapter, still with all our flavour.

 

We're so bland now, that we lose hardly anything from being rolled into the 'Nilla Dex, and gain *so* much from doing so.

[BladeGaurd]

(Psycannons, Incinerators, Psilencers of all types and Psyk-out Grenades gone)

 

All units with CT:GK have the following rules;

Prefered Enemy: Daemons

The Aegis

Purity of Spirit

All units have BoP (PML1) and have to roll thier single power on the Banishment and Hammerhand from the Sanctic table

All charcaters can roll on :Divination, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Sanctic (have I missed one?)

 

Any Close Combat Weapon is replaced with a Force Weapon (type as per model). Special Close Combat Weapons gain the Force ability.

 

Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, Devastator Marines, Sternguard and Honour Guard *must* replace thier Bolter with a Storm bolter and gain a Close Combat Weapon for 5 points per model (or however much for balance)

Models in Terminators Armour gain Frag and Krak grenades for free.

Models with a Jump Pack may upgrade it to a Personal Teleporter for 6 points per model (or however much for balance)

Edit: Missed Purifiers and Paladin

Units of Sternguard with CT:GK have the BoP (ML2) rule, gain Cleansing Flame and must roll for one power on Banishment and Hammerhand from the Sanctic table

Units of Tactical Terminators may purchase the 'Paladin' upgrade.  Gaining WS5 and W2 for 15 points each

 

Nemesis DreadKnights can only be purchased in Detachments using Chapter Tactics: Grey Knights

 

 

Done?

 

Have I missed anything?

 

You missed pyromancy

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Seriosuly though, what would we lose?  Psycannons?  Pretty meh now for a slightly better Assault Cannon on Terminators.  Incinerators are +1S Heavy Flamers (just give our PA units the option to purchase a H Flamer).

 

Well they're our signature weapon, so yeah I would care if we lost them. They're incredibly rare pre-Heresy tech that only the Knights have the ability to use, and Deimos is the only place they're manufactured. The actual weapon rules equate to a S7 assault cannon, but I'm fine with that (its our only real anti-tank special weapon). 

The Nemesis Weapons are really not that important now.

 

Yes they are. Are you forgetting we get re-rolls to wound against Daemons when we turn on 'Force'? Also, again, they're our signature melee weapons. 

 

Just look at what we'd gain.  In codex scouts (Inquisitorial accolytes).  Land Speeders.  Jump Packs (Personal Teleporters) for our ICs. Tanks. Storm Shields.

 

 

If I wanted to play vanilla Marines, I'd make an army list out of their codex. I play Knights. We can get by just fine without storm shields or tanks. We're not a mechanised force, we're a rapid-assault strikeforce that typically battles an enemy that doesn't use vehicles (with the exception of the Soul Grinder). 

We'd finally be a Marine Chapter, still with all our flavour.

 

We'd be as boring as vanilla Marines. Hooray. Why not just ret-con us to be an Ultramarine successor while you're at it?

You missed pyromancy

 

Meh, nobody ever uses that Discipline. It's the unwanted stepchild of the Psychic Phase. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Well they're our signature weapon, so yeah I would care if we lost them.

 

We wouldn't lose them.

 

We'd have a S6 Psycannon instead. ;)

 

 

 

Are you forgetting we get re-rolls to wound against Daemons when we turn on 'Force'?

 

/meh

 

If that's *really* important, add Daemonbane up with Purity, Aegis and other special rules.

 

 

 

We'd be as boring as vanilla Marines. Hooray.

 

We'd be the GK we are now, with more toys to make us more interesting.

 

How would we be more boring than we are now?

[Sete]

Losing a codex is never good. Sternguard? Vanguard? Centurions? Dont use them with my Templars. Never will.

Losing a codex, the chapter identity, over new toys its not worth it.

Better have 100 pages about GK than half a dozen pages saying that you chapter is aberrant worships the emperor and loves psykers.

If anything it just turned more challenging making a good GK army. My 2 cents...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

We wouldn't lose them.

We'd have a S6 Psycannon instead.

Lame. It irks me that psycannons got relegated to being our generalist support weapon, when before they had a very specific use; punching through strong invul saves. In today's meta, I'd kill for a weapon that ignored invul. I'd happily give up Rending and even S7 to get that back.

If that's *really* important, add Daemonbane up with Purity, Aegis and other special rules.

But this is the point GL. You're front-loading so many buffs for the Knights Chapter Tactic, you're making the others looks almost worthless by comparison. Why would anyone take Raven Guard, or Imperial Fists etc? It's why we belong in our own codex, with our own costings and specialised units. We don't need vanilla Marine stuff, because we're better than they are.

We'd be the GK we are now, with more toys to make us more interesting.

How would we be more boring than we are now?

But we don't need them. We need our existing roster to be properly implemented, not just tack on Predators, Land Speeders and so on. We're not that kind of army.

Losing a codex is never good. Sternguard? Vanguard? Centurions? Dont use them with my Templars. Never will.

Losing a codex, the chapter identity, over new toys its not worth it.

Better have 100 pages about GK than half a dozen pages saying that you chapter is aberrant worships the emperor and loves psykers.

If anything it just turned more challenging making a good GK army. My 2 cents...

Exactly. Think of how much the Templars lost when they got rolled into the Marine book. Of course their legacy advantages (double specials on Terminators etc) was going to go, no question. But they've been nerfed into utter obscurity, their Chapter Tactics and unique units are a joke. If that happened to Knights, I'd cease playing the army, because it would no longer be the force that got me into them.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

But this is the point GL. You're front-loading so many buffs for the Knights Chapter Tactic, you're making the others looks almost worthless by comparison. Why would anyone take Raven Guard, or Imperial Fists etc? It's why we belong in our own codex, with our own costings and specialised units. We don't need vanilla Marine stuff, because we're better than they are. 

 

Why do they take them?

 

Why doesn't every Marine player play Grey Knights?

 

How about running multiple detachments?  a Grey Knight detachment for your Elite units.  A White Scar one for your Bikes.  A Crimson Fist one for Objective Secured Sternguard.

[BladeGaurd]

I am against this outside off an intellectual exercise. I would sooner bring a marine chapters,  like the Black Templars or cursed founding, into the Grey Knight book and do it like the 3rd ed chaos marks, the ones that would turn units into cult troops like thousand sons, and call it codex crusaders or something.  We are not blood angels or dark angels that for a very long time seem like they could be absorbed by normal marines with out loosing anything of note.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Why do they take them?

 

Because people collect Chapters, and like to paint them as such. And GW say 'if you paint your stuff as Imperial Fists, you use these Chapter Tactics'. 

Why doesn't every Marine player play Grey Knights?

 

Because they have a collection of models that don't exist in our roster. Plus we have a pretty unique style that doesn't make sense to a Marine player. They look at us and go 'ah so where are the support units? Where are your tanks, or Bikes, or drop pods etc?'. Also, we're probably a little less powerful than vanilla Marines these days, not by much but still. 

 

How about running multiple detachments?  a Grey Knight detachment for your Elite units.  A White Scar one for your Bikes.  A Crimson Fist one for Objective Secured Sternguard.

 

 

The investments required end up restricting you to 2k+ games. Even running two detachments is hard to do effectively below 1500 points. 

 

I'm all in favour of Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Blood Angels getting rolled into a single 'Codex: Space Marines'. It would let them standardise wargear, new units and weapon rules, and literally halve their FAQ workload in one swoop. You could still have unique units and Chapter Tactics, but you wouldnt' get the syndrome of 'how come some First Founding Chapters have this, but Ultramarines don't? Or vice versa?'. 

 

Grey Knights are NOT normal Marines. We're as far removed from a normal Chapter as the Custodians are. Like the Custodes, we were created for a very specific reason, and we deserve our own army book. If Stormtroopers got their own army book (which is itself silly, as they're in AM anyway), we need one too.