Nemesis Strike Force question...

[Rybnick]

So I just got the new codex yesterday (LGS missed shippment on Friday and closed Monday's), after having an official read through I'm super stoked to get my GK  on the table. I do have a quick questions about the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment though. 

 

The detachment essentially reads "any unit who starts in deepstrike reserve can deepstrike turn 1 on a 3+" which is all well and good but so many of the reviews and things I've been reading seem to indicate that purifiers can be useful in this detachment, which to me is incorrect because they don't have the deep strike rule and can't start the game in deepstrike reserve.

 

Am I missing something here? I'd love to be able to deepstrike in Purifiers (or Purgators with psilencers for that matter) on turn 1 but I just don't see how they can since neither squad has the deep strike rule. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

You can use Allied SW drop pods to Deepstrike them. Check Gentlemanlosers's posts, he's got an army in the works that uses the combo. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Not that exactly.  Was hung up on Draigo.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295565-gk-nemesis-strikeforce-1850/

 

But now GoI doesn't work with TH as I'd though, I'd go with something like the above, but SW Drop Pods with Locator Beacons could be great combo'd with Draigo (for a second turn gate).

 

You'd need to take some Space Wolf HQs/Troops though, as you need to run a SW CAD/AD to use Drop Pods alongside the NSF.

[Quozzo]

Deepstriking purifiers or purgators with psilencers wont work as the psilencers are heavy weapons and deep striking counts a moving :/ If you're deepstriking terminators though, then it will work. Heavy support can be used for dreadknights as they can deepstrike without or without the personal teleporter. The only elites unit to benefit from NSFD are paladins, and they're usually too expensive as you would only have a few squads and if they don't manage come on then your remaining forces on the board wont make a big enough impact to not be shot off the board in turn two. You could go for the SW drop pods for your purifiers.

[IndigoJack]

I also had a question about the NSFD, Rites of Teleportation says, "Instead of making reserve rolls from the start of your turn 2, you can make reserve roils for any unitin this detachment that is placed in deep strike reserve from the start of your turn 1."

 

Does this mean that if you're in deep strike reserve, arriving turn 1 is optional? At first, I read the use of "can" as something I was given permission to do, but not required to do. Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is just sloppy language. Thoughts?

[Quozzo]

I would definitely say it's optional, but what unit would you not want on the table turn one? Roll for everything and fire everything that lands.

[jeffersonian000]

There is no requirement to place the entire army in reserves. You can take Purifiers, which would start on the board, and ideally have a Homer for your turn 2 or later Deep Strikers.

 

SJ

[Rurik the blessed]

Storm ravens can't benefit of the rites of teleportation?

[IndigoJack]

I would definitely say it's optional, but what unit would you not want on the table turn one? Roll for everything and fire everything that lands.

If my opponent put some big scary in a drop pod that was coming in turn one and I was going second, I might want to deep strike turn two to get the jump on it. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. The flexibility to chose is pretty fantastic.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Storm ravens can't benefit of the rites of teleportation?

 

No.  they can't be placed in Deep Strike Reserves.  As they can't Deep Strike.

 

Which is why Drop Pods are better for this Detachment.

 

Half come in first turn automatically, the other half you can even roll for first turn.

[Purifying Tempest]

From what I've seen of NSF lists is that "Rites of Teleportation" is not what people are getting excited over.  I think it is avoiding the dreadful 2x troop tax from our codex.  Terminators are good, but 2 5 man squads compulsory gets pricey, and 1 termie squad and 1 strike squad makes me kinda feel robbed for the points.  When playing low model armies, it is pretty important to get the most value out of every slot filled, and NSF allows the GK player to go: HQ, troop.... Dreadknight!

 

Most NSF armies are packing Dreadknights (teleporters are a steal), Purifiers (can't deep strike), Interceptors (same deal as Dreadknights), and then a spattering of stormravens, draigostars, etc.  Most of these things start on the board, or do not benefit from Rites at all.

 

Also, the 100-200 points saved from the second compulsory troop tax is really big if you start talking about weaving in allies, since GW thought it'd be really cool if we were almost forced to play out of codex for heavy armor removal and anti-air.  That and Objective Secured units from allies are a lot more reasonably costed (usually) than ours.

[stephane4985]

I don't see the 1 troop choice as a big deal. With the price of terminators, i am not planning on using less than 10, even at 1500, if using the nsf. So that is 2 troops choices anyway.

[boreas]

It also says an HQ from the GK faction or with no faction. Is there such an HQ?

[jeffersonian000]

I use to run 27 TDA at 1500pts back in 5th and 6th, although I was phasing 10 for 20 PA before 7th hit. Losing Mordrak hurts me more than any other change, yet it's effectively a 400pt gain in other units for me. :)

 

To those scared to use TDA in the current meta, I can only say that it encourages you to play smarter, strive to make less mistakes, and challenges your inner tactician. There is nothing more gratifying that turning a loss into a win because you played smarter with a low model count elite army. And loss doesn't really hurt that much if you take away from the game an experience you can use to get a little bit better for the next game.

 

As to 7th, the NSF will be my go to detachment with a core Libby, 10man GKT, 10man GKIS, and a NDK, with more than enough space for more of each. I'm seriously thinking on moving my Stormraven over to the SM SR+2ST formation by adding 2 "GK" Stormtalons, for a heavier AA presence and because our SR just isn't any different from a SM SR. Also considering a DA allied detachment as stand in "Mordrak and his Ghost Knights" because I have the models and DA have better rules.

 

All in all, I'm actually excited by the turn of direction the new Codex has taken, and I'm looking forward to making it work (by not buying anything new).

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

The only problem with Belial as an Ally is that he doesn't make Dangel Terminators troops. :(

 

So you'd need a random squad of Scouts as well.

[DarkProdigy]

Hmm caestus assault ram has deep strike, can it reserve roll turn 1 as well if in the army?

[Landrick]

Hmm caestus assault ram has deep strike, can it reserve roll turn 1 as well if in the army?

i like where this is going...

[Gentlemanloser]

As long as you have a unit from the NSF detachment embarked. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

To those scared to use TDA in the current meta, I can only say that it encourages you to play smarter, strive to make less mistakes, and challenges your inner tactician. There is nothing more gratifying that turning a loss into a win because you played smarter with a low model count elite army. And loss doesn't really hurt that much if you take away from the game an experience you can use to get a little bit better for the next game.

 

None of that stops InterTides vaping you as your appear from Reserves. Or Eldar dropping Dragons at point-blank and melting you to slop. Or plasma guns etc etc. That's the reason TDA is such a risky play in 7th. At this stage, everyone has access to cheap AP2, and that 5+ invul really doesn't save anything from dying. If we had 4+ invul on normal TDA, things would be different. As is, you cry when someone points AP2 at your expensive infantry. 

As to 7th, the NSF will be my go to detachment with a core Libby, 10man GKT, 10man GKIS, and a NDK, with more than enough space for more of each. I'm seriously thinking on moving my Stormraven over to the SM SR+2ST formation by adding 2 "GK" Stormtalons, for a heavier AA presence and because our SR just isn't any different from a SM SR. Also considering a DA allied detachment as stand in "Mordrak and his Ghost Knights" because I have the models and DA have better rules.

 

I agree, I think the Nemesis Strikeforce fixes so many issues in on go, losing 'Objective Secured' hardly matters because we don't win through attrition. We have to punch the enemy in the mouth hard enough Turn 1 that they never recover and overwhelm us with superior numbers and firepower. That said, the Nemesis Strikeforce is heavily reliant on Deepstrike and Reserves support, so things like locator beacons, servo-skulls and Comms Arrays are a must. 

[Captain Coolpants]

I've seen people say that the NSFD loses objective secured. Probably because I'm blind, I can't see where it says that in the book.

[Hidicul]

I've seen people say that the NSFD loses objective secured. Probably because I'm blind, I can't see where it says that in the book.

It does in fact because its not a combined arms detachment. I didnt even think of that till just now. Of course if your going min troops like most of us seem to be thinking the loss really doesn't hurt as we are Alpha striking. Want to even the field? Take out all of their troops turn one ignoreing the big stuff, but good luck lol. Personally I think its a fair exchange for a massive alpha strike behind enemy lines.

[Captain Coolpants]

Ahh I see. I supose it doesn't matter. Im yet to have a game where that has made a difference lol

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It does in fact because its not a combined arms detachment. I didnt even think of that till just now. Of course if your going min troops like most of us seem to be thinking the loss really doesn't hurt as we are Alpha striking. Want to even the field? Take out all of their troops turn one ignoreing the big stuff, but good luck lol. Personally I think its a fair exchange for a massive alpha strike behind enemy lines.

 

Yeah basically. It represents the vanguard strike of a GK force, intended to cripple the enemy and take out a key threat. The Knights aren't gonna stick around, they're elite shock troops. If it wasn't for the vagaries of Deepstrike and Reserves (which you have to spend additional points to mitigate...), it would be a very powerful force. As is...well since 4th people have been fighting Drop Pod lists, so our version is nothing new, it just happens a turn earlier. 

 

The oddest thing about the Nemesis Strikeforce is its 4 Elites. Really puzzles me. Because you run out of points long before you run out of Elite slots. 

[casb1965]

Storm ravens can't benefit of the rites of teleportation?

But 80pts spent on a Skyshield Landing Pad will have it on table in hover mode on Turn 1 :)

It flies off and you can then Deep Strike on to the Skyshield and not scatter

[Quozzo]

 

It does in fact because its not a combined arms detachment. I didnt even think of that till just now. Of course if your going min troops like most of us seem to be thinking the loss really doesn't hurt as we are Alpha striking. Want to even the field? Take out all of their troops turn one ignoreing the big stuff, but good luck lol. Personally I think its a fair exchange for a massive alpha strike behind enemy lines.

 

Yeah basically. It represents the vanguard strike of a GK force, intended to cripple the enemy and take out a key threat. The Knights aren't gonna stick around, they're elite shock troops. If it wasn't for the vagaries of Deepstrike and Reserves (which you have to spend additional points to mitigate...), it would be a very powerful force. As is...well since 4th people have been fighting Drop Pod lists, so our version is nothing new, it just happens a turn earlier. 

 

The oddest thing about the Nemesis Strikeforce is its 4 Elites. Really puzzles me. Because you run out of points long before you run out of Elite slots. 

 

They had to increase the number of elite slots because they had to decrease the number of heavy supports slots (Dreadknights) and Fast Attack (Storm Raven/Interceptors) so every list wouldn't be 3 NDK backed up by 3 Interceptor squads, with the occasional SR thrown in now and again to spice things up. As I mentioned (in this thread or another) paladins are the only ones to benefit from RoT so they will be the only ones taken with it and they will eat your points faster than a tyranid at a free buffet. Even the troop slots have been reduced so you don't spam take terminators.