How many troops w/ new Codex in 7th?

[hardimanm]

With the 5th ed codex I would play a troop saturated list.  in my 2000 point list I would run 6 packs of grey hunters each with 2 special weapons and a power weapon/fist.  3 squads would have a rhino and 1 squad came in via Drop pod.  This would usually end up at about 1100-1200 points.   I would fill out the list with a HQ on thunderwolf, a mix of lone wolves, dreadnoughts, thunderwolves, long fangs, ect.

This list was very visually intimidating.  And it was fairly effective.  And it was pretty fun

 

But my question is how many troops do you need now in 7th?  I know that now any unit can claim/contest objectives so i would think that 6 troops is a bit over kill.

 

So any suggestions on how to run the new Wolves Codex in regards to troop choices balanced with our other choices?

[Karack Blackstone]

The old rule of the day as written by Grey Mage was, at least for fifth and sixth, one Troops choice per 500 points of army.

 

Going forward I'm not sure what the idea should be.  I think this remains a solid guideline, as 2000 points would have four Troops choices minimum, to whatever the player wants as far as individual units go.  The only real issue is the now sky high points values of some troops builds for GH's, low points totals on BC's, and the serious competition between our force elements going forward.

 

Good question overall, though.

[viddar]

Six is probably a bit much, more so with grey hunters being a tad more expensive. I've been running three squads, two squads of hunters in rhinos, and 1 unit of claws in a stormwolf, and I've been happy with the happy with the results. The transports having objective secured is amazing.

[skeletoro]

Personally I think 2 grey hunters packs with a degree of mobility would be a good midfield objective holding unit. Unless your opponent is pretty mobile you can probably get by by holding your backfield with non-OS shooty units, and you can aim to focus fire and wipe opponent units from select objectives in order to capture them with non-troops units.

 

That said, I can see drop podding GHs in pods being quite awesome in a maelstrom game. Drop in and steal some points from under a no-ObSec unit the turn they arrive.

 

I'm not sure about ObjSec Stormwolves. They're going to have trouble grabbing anything until at least turn 3 and given that they're likely moving only 6 to allow claws to disembark they aren't too likely to independently grab an additional objective beyond the ones the claws are grabbing. Though it's possible. Turn 4+ they could grab something maybe, but that's a bit late, in maelstrom at least. Non-maelstrom games are different - the challenge will be keeping the flier alive but it could come in handy potentially.

 

Haven't played much 7th yet though!

[Squark]

Depends on what your metagame is like. The high end area is dominated by objective secured shenanigans, but if your local club is less competitive, running so many obsec units may be less important.

[magnusthetraitor]

We play a lot of Maelstrom missions at our club, and smaller amounts of troops seem to work alright. I use 3-4 troop choices in 1850 with my Wolves, and haven't felt the same stretch that I did in previous editions/mission types.

I also don't see a lot of objective secured spam armies doing well.

[Squark]

We play a lot of Maelstrom missions at our club, and smaller amounts of troops seem to work alright. I use 3-4 troop choices in 1850 with my Wolves, and haven't felt the same stretch that I did in previous editions/mission types.

 

I also don't see a lot of objective secured spam armies doing well.

Like I said, this is tournament stuff. Not going to show up in Maelstrom, which is too random for the big tournaments to run.

[Frater Cornelius]

Depends on how you are planning to run your list. Eldar lists almost entirely life on objsec with their cheap and fast jetbikes. Others dominate the field by shooting the enemy off the points.

I am running CoF detachment so my troops consist of 2 minimal GH in rhinos and allies have 2 5man biker units. Not all that much. But no amount of Eldar jetbikes will be able to stand that amount of shooting and once I have cornered the opponent turn 2-3, I can grab objectives at my own leasure.

[Squark]

Eh, the real power of Objective secured is in the transports and multiple-units-in-one-slot shenanigans (Combat Squads and Guard platoons, both of which can also have dedicated transports). Wave serpents are a pain in the hind end already, but now that they can tank shock your units off objectives (And run with a 3+ cover save if they like)? Drop Pods and rhinos work pretty well too (Rhinos can tank shock almost as well, and drop pods are annoyingly tough to kill for a 35 point model).

 

But that's just the high end of the tournament scene. If your metagame isn't running quite that heavy, you can run more troop light lists- CoF should probably be troop free (Or get its troops from another detachment).

[Frater Cornelius]

Eh, the real power of Objective secured is in the transports and multiple-units-in-one-slot shenanigans (Combat Squads and Guard platoons, both of which can also have dedicated transports). Wave serpents are a pain in the hind end already, but now that they can tank shock your units off objectives (And run with a 3+ cover save if they like)? Drop Pods and rhinos work pretty well too (Rhinos can tank shock almost as well, and drop pods are annoyingly tough to kill for a 35 point model).

 

But that's just the high end of the tournament scene. If your metagame isn't running quite that heavy, you can run more troop light lists- CoF should probably be troop free (Or get its troops from another detachment).

 

Not necessarily. With the new detachments coming out we may see more alternatives to ObjSec. The thing is, things like combat squad and other shenanigans have their own risks like the unit is easier to break. You can not summarize is just like that. Context, that is what everything depends on.

There might also be certain rules in place at tournaments. I have seen one that banned ObjSec entirely for some reason. There are too many factors to make an ultimate and overarching decision.

[Vampyrer0me0]

Right now I am fielding 4 with their associated transports in an 1850 list. I feel this gives me plenty of options even without everyone having obsec, to contest and secure things. So far it is working out for me. I rarely have issues securing objectives.

[Valerian]

I don't think you're going to find a good rule of thumb to guide you.  Figure out what you want your units to do for you, then build them to do that.  If Grey Hunters happen to be what you need for some of those tasks, and they're the most efficient and effective at doing the task over other alternatives, then you're going to go with them.  If the needs fit better with what a Blood Claw pack or two can provide, then you're going to want them.  If your requirements, however, aren't suited to either of these two Troops options, then you're going to need to go with units elsewhere in your army list than can give you what you need.

 

V

[Wispy]

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[Jaarl Stormfang]

I agree mostly with what's been said. I think objective secured is a little overrated, or at least it was, I think people are now coming to terms with it's actual effect in game, and how rarely it's important. It' a shame as I enjoyed having a reason to pick a troops unit. As it is now I think I'll only be adding troops to satisfy the minimum, and then if I feel it's the best (or coolest) unit for the job.

[viddar]

Alot of objective secured's strength is tied to maelstrom missions imo. In the older missions it lacks weight, because objectives don't count till the last turn. So depending on how often you play that style of mission it can have a larger effect.

[Urauloth]

In my meta nobpdy plays anything but maelstrom, so ObSec is quite significant even if it's not the end of the world if you don't have it. I definitely want a CAD so I can take grey hunters in pods, though. Nothing excessive, just a couple of packs.

[Rift Blade]

Just played my 1st game of 7th last night & I took 3 packs(1500 pt game) & have to say I even though we just played a basic game(kill pts) to get used to some of the new rules, I found the rule of 1 pack per 500 pts a good guide. It gave me enough boots on the ground that my hammer units could get the job done. But its only one game. And yes, the game was a win for the Wolves. Bottom of turn 3 all he had left was a Wraith Knight, some Wyches & Kabalite warriors & a Farseer.