Defense against melta DP

[Sviar]

Many people in my LGC field SW. They use melta Drop pods. Which means that in turn 2 my heavy armour is gone or down to only one remaining(if they get lycky with the dices). Frustating to say the least, I have thought about putting a squad of 10 guardsmen in front so I might reciece a cover save. Anyway putting them in ruins or behind houses dosen't help that much, and behind the houses they aren't that useful either.

How do you set a a defense for drop poding melta SW? 

 

EDIT: Spellcheck.

[PureFodder]

A large blob of guardsmen, preferably with Coteaz in it. It should be possible to stop anyone drop-podding within 6" (making meltas much less effective) and every unit that tries will take a round of shooting from the blob squad as soon as they get out of the drop-pod.

[Sviar]

That might work, are we talking about 30 Guards?

[WarriorFish]

Spacing out helps, especially with trooper support. Best thing is to make it so there's no room to place the pod so it's not a valid deployment area. Force him to land further away so his melta doesn't get the 2D6 penetration and has to go through a cover save too - infantry and less valuable vehicles like Chimeras can do this nicely.

You don't have to be passive either, set up units to ambush podding units after they've arrived so you give your opponent difficult choices. Not only will he have to try and decide how good his odds are at hitting the Russ but also what happens to his unit afterwards. Make good use of cheap supporting infantry and you can make deep striking a risky gamble - also a great place for a Banewolf to lurk as it really makes Marines sweat. So kind of him to deliver some Marines to your battle lines so your Banewolf's shorter range isn't an issue

[hornywingythingy]

50 conscripts, maximum spacing, keep them further out than 6". Gives your tanks a potential cover save too. Put a priest in for fearless.

[Andhil]

Bullgryns. Guaranteed Cover save, with a bonus actually.

But your best bet would be to use the following (some have been mentioned before)

-Use whatever terrain you have to cover your weaker facings, if he can't drop in/ see your rear, he can't shoot your rear.

-Use infantrymen to 'screen' your tanks. They'll never completely obscure it, but they'll give it a cover save. But the most important part of the screen is forcing the enemy to drop further away from the tank, which negates the Melta USR. Nothing wrong with attempting a Testudo formation with your tanks in the middle and your Guardsmen putting up a 12" screen around them.

-Ambush. This is a dangerous tactic, but could work out very well in certain circumstances. By keeping your important vehicles safe, and making a single vehicle a target, say a cheap Chimera or Taurox by putting it outside your defenses (you as the player need to do a bit of acting too, sigh a bit, when you realize there "isn't enough space to put this +VEHICLE+ in your Tank screen." That'll draw your opponent to this (un)fortunate target, and might make him forget about the dangerous units posted nearby!)

Now, we mentioned this is a dangerous tactic, and it is, in this edition where First Blood actually makes a difference, it's hard sacrificing anything, especially a good vehicle.

Various stuff to watch out for:

-They've got Bolters too. It's plausible that, when faced with no other option, they'll just start shooting your Guardsmen, either out of spite, or killing off your screen for future AT units. It's what I'd do.

(If I was the other guy, I'd also mix up the Drop pods, so that there's a Bolter toting unit escorting a Melta unit every time. No better way to kill of IG Tanks than by shooting the Infantry screen, and then blasting the armor. Your opponent may do the same, and there's very little one can do about this. Except Bullgryns. )

-Tunnel vision: It's an Alpha Strike tactic, which is effective, but not necessarily the game winning move. Don't forget there's an army on the other side of the board, you may want to kill these off too.

-Some people can benefit from Psychic powers, mainly Divination. If your opponent has these, kill the Psykers ASAP. Nothing laughs harder at your meticulously placed Infantry screen, than Melta's with Ignore Cover.

-Think 2 steps ahead. If he's got the rest of his army mounted on DP's, with some Locator Beacons sprinkled around, kill the beacons first, no need to kill the first wave of enemies when you're letting the second wave arrive too easily.

That's how I'd do it. Occasionally, it doesn't hurt to put yourself in your opponents place, and think about how you would do it. You'll come up with a lot of different tactics, I guarantee it. See the section "Various stuff to watch out for."

[WarriorFish]

There's no sure way of stopping your opponent targeting something effectively, for example those meltas could go for the Bullgryns instead. It's all about compromise and choice - what units do you want to protect the most? You can only do this by putting others at risk in their place due to your opponent's agency. Always put yourself in your opponent's shoes and ask yourself "what are the possible moves?".

[Bionicman]

Reserves.

 

If there is no other way, put your tanks in reserve.

I always forget that. But it may be viable versus alpha strike armies. Sure you want some kind of reserve modifier. And still there is a chance to lose 1,2,3 turns of shooting.

 

Now, with the new nemesis strike force, grey knights can also DS a lot of troops first turn. As they will deploy probably more than one unit, good chances are terminators with psycannons and hammers as well as strike squads for distraction, things will get a lot more heated when castling up. Be prepared..

[Kilofix]

Yeah Blob + Coteaz

 

 

But you can also add Aegis Line and Tank Traps.

 

Tank Traps: Any fortification can add multiple 6" sections of them for the cost of a Power Weapon each. Impassable terrrain to Vehicles (except Skimmers)

 

Drop Pod: If a Drop Pod scatters on to impassable terrain - 'move it away' (paraphrased). Otherwise it Mishaps. Drop Pods are Vehicles (and NOT Skimmers)

 

Placement is important though as the Traps must be placed wholly within 6" of your Fort but don't have to be connected (each Tank Trap can stand alone). So what you want to do is place all of them in concentric circles on the outside of your 'turtle' but still use Infantry as the 'door' to allow your Tanks out. Practice positioning, beforehand - the Aegis and Tank Traps in total should be the cost of a Hellhound - which isn't cheap but its worth it.

 

The above should push him out of Melta range.

 

[WarriorFish]

That's a lot of dedication to protect some armour Kilo, but it'll certainly do a good job!

[Kilofix]

That's a lot of dedication to protect some armour Kilo, but it'll certainly do a good job!

What? Dedication? Imperial Guard? Nooo......

Heh

[march10k]

I have something for you...a skyshield.  Not only does it give you a 4++ against shooting, but if an enemy is at ground level and within 6" of your tank, he loses LOS to the tank.  So they pod in, can't shoot you, then die.   It works wonders for me, just denied a podding MM dreadnought last night in fact.  Obviously, it depends on how many tanks you have...I put my pask squadron and a pair of wyverns on the skyshield, and my demolishers are far from one another and far from the skyshield to force decisions my opponent doesn't want to make

 

(The skyshield is also far from objectives, so anything that goes after my fire support on top is committed away from the real fight, while the stuff on the skyshield has long enough range to support me all over the table).

 

/edit/  A multimelta can be far enough away to have LOS and still be within 12", I just wanted to point that out.  Thankfully, there aren't a lot of those out there, and you still get that 4++.  In my game last night, my opponent just made a mistake...it occurred to him that if he got up close, I wouldn't be able to shoot his dreddy...didn't think about how that's a two way street!

[Lord Commander Scrymgeour]

my advice is MOAR! 

seriously at 1000 points you can get

2 4 squad platoons  

1 CCS

2  priests

3 basilisks

 

it even leaves you with 55 points for gravy

 

That's 95 men to completely fill your deployment zone to stop drop pods who can the drown your enemies in their blood whilst you contiunuously drop pie plates on anything that gets too close to an objective

 

for 1000 points my blood angels would get 

 

1 librarian - naked

3 assault squads of 10 men, with 5 meltas spread out

a fragioso dread to try to kill the infantry.

 

(I realise this isn't the best list but it definitely shows the value of the AM - they don't need protecting, just let them die, there's a glaxies worth waiting

[Andhil]

There's no sure way of stopping your opponent targeting something effectively, for example those meltas could go for the Bullgryns instead. It's all about compromise and choice - what units do you want to protect the most? You can only do this by putting others at risk in their place due to your opponent's agency. Always put yourself in your opponent's shoes and ask yourself "what are the possible moves?".

Absolutely true, sometimes 40K does feel like chess, you need to be able to anticipate your opponent's moves, and be prepared for them. Sadly the only thing you can't be prepared for is awful rolls. I've had many moments of strategical genius fail by poor rolling. Always a shame when a plan doesn't come together.

The hard part is outsmarting your opponent. Especially regular ones. They'll be remembering your moves, and examining your options as well, planning for a suitable counter. It's one of the more fun parts of this game.

(to be fair though, Melta's are completely wasted against Bullgryns, they don't even ID them, which is funny if they're your Bullgryns! )

In the case of Space Marines, you'll want your Battle Tanks and Demolishers to be safe, as well as anything that can pierce Power Armor. I'd much rather sacrifice my beloved Punisher than lose my Battle Tank in such a battle. The Bane Wolf (which has ben mentioned before iirc) is a great vehicle to counter Space Marines, most of them don't know what it does, and if they do, they might feel like putting it on the top of their priority list, which again, works to your advantage.

Kilofix made a great point in his post, one that most people forget about, I've often made this mistake myself, but you need to also make sure you don't take the Tank out of the fight yourself, either by getting it stuck behind fortifications, or hampering it's movement. I've often blocked my Tanks' movement due to a squad covering it's front. Now that's not the end of the world for a Battle Tank, but if it means your Punished isn't in range.....

Nonetheless, you'll get the hang of it. We all face different challenges. Which reminds me that I need to make a thread, I require aid with my ongoing struggle against the accursed Scions of the Warp.

[Kierdale]

I, like many above, would go for the infantry bubble wrap method, though Kilofix excellently demonstrates use of fortifications.

March10k's Skyshield suggestion could be combined with tank traps to push the enemy back out of melta range.

 

Just a thought: March10k, have you ever deployed two skyshields next to each other so tanks/models could move from one to the other?

[Kilofix]

Slight digression but its too bad IG can't lay Mines (outside of Planetstrike and Cities of Death).

 

I feel like they should be able to do so. Especially since its Grim Dark and there really isn't a humanitarian reason not to do so in the 40K universe.

 

I guess maybe Tanglewire is a weak version.

[Sviar]

To everyone of you I like to say a big big thank you. I'd been given advices, tactis, blueprints and much more. This is truly the best subforum within the B&C I just wish I had more likes. I now have a lot more knowledge how to deal with the usual three SW DPs trying to huff and puff and blow my Commisarrs head off

[WarriorFish]

Let us know how it goes, someone needs to teach those doggies to sit and that person is Sviar ;)

[march10k]

 

Just a thought: March10k, have you ever deployed two skyshields next to each other so tanks/models could move from one to the other?

 

Hmmm.  Well...no.  Several reasons.  First is that part of the shenanigan involved in my use of the skyshield is preventing a charge.  If there's no room for your model to get into base to base contact, your charge fails.  So I put four tanks on top, and when you get close, I block the four sides (it's an octagon-shaped piece of terrain) that you can climb (the ones where the support pillars are, our understanding is you can climb the ladder on the interior face, which is now under my tank (so not happening), or, if you're larger than a 25mm base (too big to go through the hatch), climb the outside of the support pillar and come over the parapet...but you can't just fly up from ground level (unless you are a flier, but that has to be done in the movement phase, not charge phase) and reach one of the four sides that doesn't have a place to climb.  So anyway, by putting four tanks up there and blocking access to climb up, I'm safe from assault and have a 4++ against shooting, and if you're close enough to get melta rule off of a meltagun, I'm probably out of LOS.  Parking two skyshields side by side would make it much harder to keep the enemy off the top, especially if he has deepstrikers.  Just last night, I had an enemy try to DS next to my skeshield, hoping for just enough scatter that he would end up with two or three models on top (I wasn't quite at the edge, he had nothing assaulty in the area.  He scattered in the right direction, but 1" too far and mishapped.  With four vehicles on top of a skyshield, you pretty much need a non-scattering single model (dante?) to DS in there successfully...and then you still have the 4++ to deal with, how many melta shots does a single model usually have?

 

The other reason is...you're only allowed one, unless you're unbound or have multiple combined arms detachments.

 

 

 

 The Bane Wolf (which has ben mentioned before iirc) is a great vehicle to counter Space Marines, most of them don't know what it does

Au contraire!  I field two hellhounds, and everyone always assumes banewolf, even if they're not playing MEQs. Silly gamers.  I have plenty of AP2/3 pieplates, I don't need banewolf support.  What I need is a heavy flamer with an effective range of 32" (move 12", lay the short end 12" away, it's 8" long) for digging medium-light infantry out of cover, without sacrificing a heavy slot to take an eradicator.  (actually, the potential 24" move of the hellhound is another reason it's better than eradicator, at least in an objectives game)

[Kierdale]

Thanks for the explanation about the sky shields and blocking ascent. Nice to have I explained in detail.

Yes, I was thinking multi-CAD.

 

Oh, and the Banewolf comment wasn't mine ;)

...though I must get some sometime (magnetized, naturally).

[WarriorFish]

Haha, yeah if a Marine player doesn't know what a Banewolf does he soon will :lol:

[Andhil]

Yeah, local meta depends, if you've got a spam of MEQ players with little to no AM players, the Banewolf's a nasty surprise. But if there's a ton of AM players, the Banewolf is known and feared. I personally like the brutality of the thing.

[march10k]

Oh, and the Banewolf comment wasn't mine

dunno how that happened, lol...I really just clicked the multiquote buttons...

Banewolf is okay, but not for an all-comers list. The thing is, you have other stuff available, like LRBTs. The large blast of an LRBT makes it a useful tool against ANY infantry, not just MEQs, and its long range and AV14 are significant plusses...but with the Banewolf, if you're not playing against marines, it kinda stinks with its short range and AV12. At that point, the 20 points saved, as compared to a LRBT are a really bad deal. The Hellhound, on the other hand, with its extra 12" of range, and is fantastic for removing cover-based infantry. The effective range of 32" is vastly superior to the 20" effective range of the Banewolf. I'd only take a banewolf over a hellhound if I knew I was playing against marines...and only marines. I really want to take a pair of them against a certain plague marine player I know...JMHO, YMMV.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, local meta depends, if you've got a spam of MEQ players with little to no AM players, the Banewolf's a nasty surprise. But if there's a ton of AM players, the Banewolf is known and feared. I personally like the brutality of the thing.

We're not called the Emperor's hammer for nothing How's that saying go? If you have a hammer all your problems start to look like nails...