Ultramarine organization

[captain Angel]

As the title says, how was it?

[CPT Weiss]

From what I have gathered, its basic organization was Primarch-chapter-company-squad-battle brother.  They did have a group called the tetrarch.  I believe only 4 of them exist and they were ranked above chapter master but had no fighting men directly assigned to them so they kinda floated to where they were needed.  That's what I remember anyway.  Hope that helps.

[Karthak]

From Know No Fear:

 

"The XIII Legion, largest of all the Legiones Astartes, is divided into Chapters, a throwback to the old regimental structures of the thunder warriors. Each Chapter is formed of ten companies. The basic unit currency is the company, a thousand legionaries, plus their support retinue, led by a senior captain."

 

"Today, at Calth, twenty of the XIII’s twenty-five Chapters will conjunct for deployment. Two hundred companies. Two hundred thousand legionaries."

[captain Angel]

Thanks

Question is, are there units between squad and company?

[Slips]

Battalions no? Pretty sure they were mentioned somewhere....

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

have a look at this:

 

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131001033403/warhammer40k/images/3/38/Space_Marine_Legion_Structure_1.jpg

 

It's extremely likely the XIII^th utilised platoon-esque formations between the squad & company formations

[Ordo Machinum]

From Horus Heresy Volume I: Betrayal, p.30-31

1 chapter = 2 battalions

1 battalion = 5 companies

1 company = 100 legionnaires

[edit: or just look at Iron Hands Fanatic's bigger nicer pic... missed it by THAT much...]

[blackoption]

I had a post up on an earlier topic about this... but I cannot find it now.

 

The Ultramarines have a possible conflict on how they are organized.  So far, both have referrenced Know No Fear (which goes from Chapters straight to Companies than on to squads)  and the Table of Organization from Massacre with a statement that the Ultramarines and the Iron Warriors were examples of Legions which kept the Original structure for the legions through out the entire great crusade (Though does not mention if they necessarily kept the exact same names).

 

This is my interpretation on how both can be correct: Since we know Ultramarine Companies are lead by Senior Captains and are known to have regular Captains serving underneath them (CPT Venatus and the 4th Company for example), my belief is that the Ultramarine Battalion level unit (which have 1000 marines) are called a "Company".  So in my arguement, Venatus is actually a Battalion Commander.  The Ultramarine Company level unit would be a century (of approximately 100 Marines) lead by the regular Captain.  Senior Squad Leaders could be Veteran Sergeants or even Lt.s leading Veteran squads and being the senior squad in each of the centuries.

 

ah... found my earlier post

 

 

Praetor and Centurion would cross multiple levels of legion heirachy each.  But as usable guidelines.... the Battalion Command (or equivalent) level is where the dividing line is.  Company level leadership and below (so Company Grade officers in terms of Western Militaries) while Praetors are easily the Chapter Masters and Legion Commanders (Pre-Primarch days). 

 

As for Ultramarine hierachy...

 

Praetor Titles would include:  Tetrarch, Legate (Roman rank for General),  Chapter Master, and potentially Captain (Remus of the 4th Company commanded 1000 legionaries and had captains underneath him, he would go on to be the hero of Calth)

 

Centurion Titles would be: Captain (lesser variety perhaps), Centurion (assumed), and Lt. (Assumed as well, but could also be the Senior Veteran SGT of a unit)

 

Now, I fully admit that this is just my interpretation. Though I look forward to when the Ultramarines get their HH rules and fluff, i fully expect my interpretation to be no longer valid.

[Marshal Rohr]

You're not going to get a straight answer. If they didn't do it for the Fists or EC, they won't do it for anyone else.

[Castellan Michael]

Ultramarine organization-what was to ruin the the legions post heresy.....

[Augustus]

Company with a 1000 men. Always found that odd. Isn't a company 100 men and it comes from Latin ?

[Felix Antipodes]

Don't know why but at some point they made a call to reverse the numbers for company and chapter. Early fluff was that the legions were broken down into 1000 'which corresponded to the legion unit known as a chapter'.

[Marshal Rohr]

Centuria is 100 in Latin iirc. Company has something to do with medieval/renaissance mercenary/professional armies.

[Conn Eremon]

There are Ultramarines centurions. Perhaps they break Companies into Centuries?

[LongGone]

What you have to realize is any Black Library book published before FW's Betrayal most likely will not match up. Hell, even from novel to novel, the info about certain things is going to change. Like M2C said, you're not going to get a straight answer that matches every info source out there. The best you can do is look at the org chart from Betrayal that's linked above, and hope to make some tenuous links here and there. 

 

Just as a small example (as I'm currently re-reading em'): In Horus Rising, Rogal Dorn personally speaks with Loken in Horus' chambers and tells him why he supported his nomination to the Mournival - because he thought Loken's temperament would round out Horus' lil' fan club. But just a few books later in Flight of the Eisenstien, Dorn needs Sigismund to tell him who Loken is when Garro uses him as a character reference. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Its not so much a strict organization, but the best thing I can suggest from Betrayal is to use the side boxes to determine the organizational level of you specialists. For instance, a Chapter has Capital Ships, Planetary Assault Craft (ships to big to be Thunderhawks/Storm Birds), Escort Vessels, Gunship Squadrons (here is the Thunderhawks, etc), the Chapter Armorium, and Armored Divisions.

 

From that, we can extrapolate that each chapter has its own fleet assets, and the requisite number of gunships to transport the chapter and larger assault craft to force a beach head (I'm thinking of the one from Gav's DA short in Age of Heresy).

 

A battalion will have its own strike cruisers, Navigators, Drop Pods and Rams, Assigned Gunship Squadrons, Assigned Super-Heavy Detachments, a Skimmer detachment, and Artillery Detachment, Techmarine detachments, Apothecarion Detachments, Dreadnaught Talons, and Recon Detachments.

 

To me, this means that your Jetbikes and Skimmers, Legion Artillery Tank Squadrons, Techmarine Covenants, Apothecarion Detachments, Dreadnaught Talons, Recon Squads, and Super-Heavy Tanks are not a part of a company, but instead their own separate unit assigned to the Battalion and deployed alongside your army on the table top.

 

Personally, my tanks are from the 1st Armored Echelon of the Terran Household Guard, and my 187th Company is reinforced by the 32nd Husaren Skimmer Strike Detachment, 6th Jaeger Detachment, Terran Household Guard Tech-Pioneer Section, and Terran Household Guard Justici Assault Maniple. Air support is provided by the 12th Gunship Ground Attack Wing [Assigned Terran Household Guard]. None of these units are apart of my company, but are elements of the same Battalion/Chapter.

 

To break it down further, using the Company Assets Box, Heavy Support Squads are not a part of regular line companies, but from a separate detachment. Only Tactical Support Squads are a part of the regular line companies. Veterans and Specialists Squads, like Terminators and Destroyers, are also separate formations, assigned to a companies order of battle, but with a separate command structure apart from the Company Captain. The only exception to this, in my mind, is Veteran Tactical Squads, which would just be the senior tactical veterans within a company (like Locasta in Loken's 10th Company). Rhinos and Support Weapons batteries would come from the Armorium at the battalion level, and individual tanks, dreadnoughts, tech marines, and apothecaries are not permanent members of a particular company.

 

 

 

 

Edit: DISCLAIMER: I'm not advocating this as 'the truth', or anything, but that's just how I conceptualize what I envision the organization to be. It is by no means what FW or BL thinks it is. For instance, the Imperial Fists don't have any ranks below captain, so I created one to have a better structure of my company, using a junior officer rank of Centurion to divide my company into an assault and tactical echelon, with a Master Sergeant commanding my assigned Support Cadre of Heavy Weapons.

[HaSY]

Ultramarines is the largest and adapt the chapter system for 10k marines. We have not even look at Word Bearers which have more than 1k marines for a chapter.