Forgeman makes a bigger Marine. Slowly...

[Forgeman]

So I got the itch again and dug out my last attempts at making a bigger Space Marine. Whilst doing that I thought about making a thread about it but didn't have much to show so I thought I'd put a few pictures up of all my previous 'attempts'. All of these earlier attempts are what you might call 'Truescale' where my most recent version is actually a 32mm scale version of an eight foot tall Space Marine. Anyway, enough jibber-jabber.

So, when the 'new' Space Marine plastics came out I finally got to make a bigger marine, something that had irked me since I got into the background for the game, Ol' Broken Neck as I call him.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642727_md-Truescale%20MK%201%20%281999%29.JPG

Mm-mmm, check out that sweet paintjob. So this was sometime back in 1999 and my converting skills extended to slicing almost all the way through the leg and then bending them relatively strait with a bit of putty between the legs and torso and that's it.

Then about 2003/4 I made more marines, this time cutting the legs, pinning them apart and filling the gap with Green Stuff as well as a waist extension. I got about two or three of these painted.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642732_md-Truescale%20Mk%20II%20%282004%29.JPG

Then I went totally berserk and made an awfully big marine (reminds me of that old Stan Ridgway song), this was around 2008.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/7/636321_md-old%20True%20Scale%20Marine.JPG

This was a pretty convoluted conversion and I got this idea into my head about using ork arms and scaling the marine to fit them... Then I decided to make a more reasonably sized Truescale Terminator.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642734_md-Truescale%20Terminator%20%282008%29.JPG

Then I started making armatures to put armour onto, the idea being the armour must be right because there was a man inside. So around 2010 I made this fella.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642735_md-Truescale%20Mk%20IV%20%282010%29.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642736_md-Truescale%20Mk%20IV%20Partial%20Complete%20%282010%29.JPG

Before embarking on that model I made that 54mm Termi in the first picture which after my attempts at armatures then led me to make a 54mm scale Space Marine.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/5/5/610131_md-Unarmoured%20Comparison%202.JPG

I used that model to make a scaled down 28mm version which turned out to be very thin and puny alongside regular Games Workshop models as he wasn't 'heroically' scaled. That led me to where I am up to now, which is a 32mm scale Marine standing roughly 44mm high.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642739_md-32mm%20Marine%20Comparison.JPG

Originally I made both leg components using 5mm tube but in this picture the lower left leg is 6mm which gives that 'flared' Marine look without actually being flared.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642738_md-32mm%20Marine%20%282012%29.JPG

Of course, I also think a big Marine needs a big gun so this is a scout heavy bolter to give an idea of a bigger boltgun; learning from past mistakes I'm inclined to make it smaller than that though and when I made the painted Truescale Marine above I wanted to use as many ordinary GW components as possible, but converted, like the backpack the 32mm Marine is wearing so I have lots of components sat unused as I vacillate between the desire to make a truly big marine (requiring almost complete scratch building) and something that's more of a conversion than anything else.

I'm also torn between making a 'scale' Marine and something a little bit more heroic. So instead of these legs (and please excuse the lean):

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642743_md-.JPG

I'd be looking at something more like these:

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642744_md-6%20and%207mm%20Leg.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/8/27/642741_md-32mm%20Marine%20Vs%20Marine.JPG

So, the top left leg armour is a 7mm tube with the inside edge trimmed away. The thicker leg looks good from the side I think, but not so much from the front hence why I cut it down.

My idea with this Marine is to use some GW components, cut down to fit onto my own torso as basically the GW torso is fine width wise as it is for the chest only. I'm going to put some extensions on the outside though to 1. have a curve of armour above the shoulder and to make it look as if the Marine has some decent lats. Slightly bulkier boots as well I think.

Anyway, any input is greatly appreciated. Is he too tall is my main question? My aim with all these models isn't just to have a taller Marine but one that is generally huger in all aspects, my favourite thing about the giant Marine I made was the helmet, compared to a regular helmet it made the regular one seem puny and that's one thing I want to achieve here, a model that is both proportionally more accurate than the 'heroic' GW models but that also looks imposing; having to really try very hard to ignore my mania for 'to' scale models as they just look thin and frail next to GW ones and yet some 'heroic' scaling looks cool.

Thanks for reading folks  :thumbsup:

[Grotsmasha]

As a massive fan of True/Art Scale, I'm always interested in other people's approach. Your approuch is much more involved than I could probably ever bother to attempt. I use a combo of Doghouse (Power Armour) and Lamenter's (Power Armour, Terminator) versions. As to your enlarged bolters, GW has thrown us a bone, Ogryn Ripper Guns are just oversize boltguns now. I've enough for a squad whenever I feel the urge to TS some marines again.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Forgeman]

The method I'm using now is a bit fiddly making sure all the cuts are even and symmetrical but, other than that it's just plain tubing so this is less complicated than my old truescaling method; plus I don't have to chop or a perfectly decent model either which helps!

I've been thinking about getting some of the new ogryns so I guess I have an excuse now.

Thanks for the reply

[Candleshoes]

If you ever cast your unarmoured astartes, I would throw buckets of money at you.

 

Incredible forethought and planning, I really look forward to seeing this evolve.

[Forgeman]

Well as it happens I did make a cast of him, (two actually, the first mould was rubbish!) and the resin version was what I built/sculpted the armour onto. I'll have to dig the mould out and see how it casts up.

 

Thanks for looking and commenting it helps give me motivation which I evidently need a lot of since I haven't finished many models in fifteen years!!

[Forgeman]

So I cut a larger tube for the lower leg and whilst fiddling about with it realised that I could have it sit lower and higher which was interesting for me because one of the things that intrigues me about making bigger Marines is working out how the armour might actually function. So, with the lower leg armour sitting higher it overlaps the thigh armour which to me looked like a good hinge point. I still am quite partial to the thinner leg where the armour parts simply abut each other with some kind of framework/armature hidden underneath the plates. The reason I made it that way originally was to give the leg a more realistic anatomy instead of having both the lower and upper armour sections the same length. Anyway, just a few pics to show where I'm up to.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645516_md-Example%201.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645517_md-Example%202.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645515_md-32mil%20Legs%20Back.JPG

Salvaged the helmet from my old huge True Scale Marine which I think works pretty well although when I make a new version it'll be ever so slightly smaller and more refined but you get the impression.


Also dug out this old Iron Warriors terminator I started painting ages back and made a Legion symbol for him which I didn't have at the time, got a whole squad of these and I know twin combi-bolters isn't a legit weapon combo but it looked kinda cool so I just went with it.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645522_md-Iron%20Warrior%20Terminator%203.JPG/bmi_orig_img/645522_md-Iron%20Warrior%20Terminator%203.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645521_md-Iron%20Warrior%20Terminator.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/7/645523_md-Iron%20Warrior%20Terminator%204.JPG/bmi_orig_img/645523_md-Iron%20Warrior%20Terminator%204.JPG

[Forgeman]

Been about two years since I last finished a model but, I've finally done another!

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/22/649202_md-Head%20On.JPG/bmi_orig_img/649202_md-Head%20On.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/22/649203_md-Right%20Side.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/22/649204_md-Left%20Side.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/9/22/649205_md-Legion%20Symbol.png


Now I just need to finish the other four...!

[Forgeman]

The Marine on the right has no left arm as both these models proved resistant to Blu-Tac and I came very close to bringing down The Foot of Gork upon them!!!

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/10/18/656311_md-Big%20Marines%201.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/10/18/656312_md-Big%20Marines%202.JPG

Very rough casts of in progress pieces so, lots more to do, but I wanted to put some together to see how they would look. I'm quite pleased with the proportions and the overall look, the bits seem to pose up fairly nicely. Anyway...

[Forgeman]

So, I've finished the boots although, I imagine that once this basic Marine is finished I will make different styles of boots but I'm pretty happy with these. Also started work on some extra sidey bits for the torso armour. I've machined out the greaves and cut them down a mm which brings the height of the marine to 42mm or so. I've done this as it makes him 8 feet tall at 30mm scale, with a Sister of Battle model (the one I have stands exactly 30mm) equating to 5' 9" and a model like Sergeant Harker 6' 5" or so (which doesn't make Harker a 'giant' as he is described but even at 28mm he isn't quite 7', however his legs look a little short to me but I digress) which I feel to be reasonable heights for the regular humans compared to a Marine.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/10/26/658466_md-IG%20Comparison.JPG/bmi_orig_img/658466_md-IG%20Comparison.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2014/10/26/658467_md-GK%20Comparison.JPG/bmi_orig_img/658467_md-GK%20Comparison.JPG

[moylan1993]

Great work! I love the first true scale terminator! do you have more pictures of it?

 

also I don't think blue tac sticks to anything anymore :P my foot of gork is twitching XD 

[Forgeman]

Been a long while since my last update here but I haven't made much progress!! Gone back and used shorter legs. Right leg is just a place holder until I get a proper one moulded and cast up.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/21/706852_md-TScale%20Comparison.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/21/706851_md-TScale%20Helmet.JPG

 

You can see the difference in this photo:

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/4/10/703864_mb-TS%20Legs%20Old%20Vs%20New.JPG

 

Anyway, thanks for taking a look.

[Radiation]

Awesome thread man. The IW terminator looks killer all painted up and finished. Looking forward to seeing more. The leg armor looks great. It reminds me of alot of the codex style paintings. Good job.

[Forgeman]

Thank you. I was pretty pleased with the Iron Warrior and the Legion symbol doesn't look too big on him, might have to make a smaller version for regular Marines though.

I have half a mould made of the legs today so I should hopefully have a pair cast up by the weekend. My intention is to make something generic and then use that as a base and the ball joints mean I can make various poses so they don't all look the same.

Thanks once again for the comments

[Forgeman]

Bit more work done on finishing the helmet. Still got plenty more to do but as you can see, it's taking shape. (comparison with ordinary space marine and a Chaos Warrior Lord which approximates the sort of size I'm going for).

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/5/17/714415_mb-Comparison.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/5/17/714416_mb-Left.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/5/17/714418_mb-Right.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/5/17/714417_mb-Front.JPG

[Forgeman]

Just another brief WIP shot to show current progress. So I have five sets of legs at the early stages of having detail sculpted in. Still need to make some kneepads for them as well. The right most marine uses my own torso and helmet but for comparison the left most marine uses just regular plastic components. I didn't have an Imperial Guardsman handy so I've used an Eisenkern trooper instead, although he is a bit taller than a Citadel model.

 

And for those who may be interested, if we use a 32mm scale then the Eisenkern is five feet and eleven inches to the top of his helmet, the plastic torso marine is precisely seven feet and my own marine is seven feet and six inches to the very top of his helmet.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/6/22/723567_md-Art%20Scale%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20True%20Scale.png

[HardCoil]

This is a crazy and awesome project. It's obvious that you put an insane amount of thought into this, and your results look like there could actually be a marine inside that armour. I've been through a lot  of the same thought, but I really respect you for going all in instead of doing the usual terminator conversion stuff :)

 

I'm not 100% sold on the helmet, mostly because of the distance between the eyes.

[Forgeman]

I agree, the eyes are somewhat widespread and I was lining it up the other day with one of the bare heads from the terminator kit and it was only just viable, less of a problem with the bigger tactical marine heads. I'm not too sure if it isn't a bit big just generally but then it's always bothered me that a marine helmet looks paper thin so having one that was obviously bigger than an unhelmeted head was one of my aims. I plan to do more helmets anyway so for now I think this will be okay and then I can use it as a base to make some more proportionate ones.

 

Thank you for the compliments, although, having chopped up terminator legs and fiddled around with them a few times in the past I think this method might actually be easier!! (even easier still if I hadn't been so particular about getting the angles cut very exactly in the styrene tube so that I could use one piece to make both legs by simply turning it around). 

[HardCoil]

I see your point, the original does look kind of small... but then again, the naked heads may be way too large for the scale anyways?! Have you looked at any of the 3rd party helmets? Maybe some are a little bigger?

 

Are you going to cast the leg bits or build them from styrene for each guy?

[Radiation]

Looks awesome. I will definitely keep checking out your thread.

[Forgeman]

I see your point, the original does look kind of small... but then again, the naked heads may be way too large for the scale anyways?! Have you looked at any of the 3rd party helmets? Maybe some are a little bigger?

Are you going to cast the leg bits or build them from styrene for each guy?

I've got no knowledge of other heads/helmets from different manufacturers but the main reason why my own ended up with the flaws it has, is because I wanted to preserve part of the muzzle from an earlier version but really I should have begun from scratch, which I'll have to do anyway so, I didn't do myself any favours there!!!

I definitely think that the bare heads in the tactical squad (which seems to have changed a lot since I last bought one so this could well be an out of date opinion) were huge in comparison to the rest of the marine body (a problem that is less apparent with other kits) and whilst I have seen some very nicely made true scale marines that do have smaller heads and hands and whatnot I want mine to look bigger compared to the other models. In comparison to the helmets, the osmotic gill head, as seen in that last comparison shot I put up, is the same size as a helmet, approximately 4.5mm wide for both. I don't know the exact measurements for a full face motorcycle helmet but I would estimate they are 1.5 - 2 times the size of a human head and I don't see Space Marine helmets being that much different, especially given all the gear in them.

The other reasons I had for making a bigger helmet is that I don't ever recall anyone who has made some kind of true scale marine making a bigger helmet to go with it and I also think they look cool and there is something about the image of a two feet wide deathmask glaring down at a regular human that appeals to me; a slight exaggeration there but I think you get my meaning.

All those legs in the last photo are resin casts, ten of the same two components of a single set of modified resin components which were taken from the original styrene pieces.

However...

I'm not too happy with the Green Stuff I've put on the joints so far and I've made up a 5mm tube using a tentacle maker today with the hopes that that, (with a small bead at the top) will replace the current smooth ball joint in the hip and might also work for the knee joint too. This would mean that each component would have that detail built in, so all I would need to do is pose them and put knee pads, groin and posterior armour on over the top (more separate components which I haven't even begun to make yet but planned to do anyway) and I won't need to do any Green Stuff work at all (or very little anyway, a bit of gap filling but no real sculpting).

Looks awesome. I will definitely keep checking out your thread.

Thanks for the support and any comments, critiques or questions are always more than welcome

[Forgeman]

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/7/4/726070_mb-True%20Scale%20redo.JPG

 

So, just a little update. You can see that the ribbing for the joints is now integral to the top half of the leg although I guess I'll have to roll out another piece and put a bend in it for a bent knee pose, not that that is entirely essential as it will be mainly covered with a knee pad anyway.

 

So, things still to do: kneepads, front/rear groin armour, a new bulkier belt, new helmet and more than likely some arms as well. Plus I still have to make a cast of the torso so I can add some details and shaping, then cast it again, rework all the legs and cast them, add some details, probably more casts...!!! I wish I could afford one of those 3D modelling programs then I could teach myself to use that and get shapeways to print me off some components!!! Can't be any more laborious than this :D

[HardCoil]

Looking good, has a real 70ies sci-fi look to it at this point, reminds me a lot of the original Cylons :D

Do you have a pressure set up for casting? Your casts look really clean and bubble free.

 

As for 3D modelling, I do all my stuff in Blender, which is free. On the modelling side it's arguably as good as the $5000 programs! 

[SickSix]

Simply impressive work. You are really putting a lot of thought into this.

 

But I have to know, where did the giant terminator cone from in the group shot in the OP?

[Forgeman]

Looking good, has a real 70ies sci-fi look to it at this point, reminds me a lot of the original Cylons

Do you have a pressure set up for casting? Your casts look really clean and bubble free.

As for 3D modelling, I do all my stuff in Blender, which is free. On the modelling side it's arguably as good as the $5000 programs!

Heh, yeah, I guess he does have a cylon look which can be no bad thing!!

I don't have anything fancy to do my casts with, unfortunately. I just got some new resin (just cheap stuff) and that helps a lot (I cast up one of these parts not that long ago with my old batch of resin, which was two or three years old and I was shocked at just how filled with bubbles it was, it looked like an Aero!), I've just started using old matchsticks to make sprue (Emperor knows why I didn't think of it before because they are perfect for what I'm doing) and I use 5mm syringes to inject the resin into the mould (I now have a stockpile of resin cast syringe tips which I also use as part of the sprue/poor holes) and I find that really helps a lot but I do still get bubbles despite my best efforts to make sure the parts are moulded in such a way as to help air get out.

I'll have to give Blender a try. Never used any programs of that nature before but I've always wanted to give it a go. Thanks for the tip.

Simply impressive work. You are really putting a lot of thought into this.

But I have to know, where did the giant terminator cone from in the group shot in the OP?

The terminator is a scratch build I made using my then truescale method, just much bigger! The powerfist, storm bolter, shoulder pads, boots, arms and some other details were just completely scratch built and even though I started off with a terminator helmet that was pretty much all scratch built by the end too.

Few WIP shots to show how it was done and apologies for the blurriness, these pics are quite old.

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/7/4/726274_mb-.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/7/4/726275_mb-.JPG

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/7/4/726276_mb-.JPG

[HardCoil]

Ok, thanks for the info, it sounds like we're about at the same place with casting frustrations. 

Having just reposed 5 terminator arms, I'm convinced doing the arms from scratch and casting them like you do is the way forward.

Let me know if you need help with the 3D stuff :)