Leif Bearclaw Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No, only infiltrate. But a single, small infantry model isn't difficult to hide if you're using enough terrain, which can severely limit your opportunities to shoot him. Plus, I don't believe there is anything stopping the Culexus being put in a SW undedicated Drop Pod for almost guaranteed opponent rage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Delivering him will be the problem. Infiltrate, and a free run. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Storm raven or storm wolf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Or that. Take a Raven is a Ready for Takeoff Skyshield and stick him insdie. 12" from the hull of the Raven... Still, even with infiltrate, shooting him at BS1, with his 4++ save is going to make it hard to take him down. And if you do, that's why I'll be packing two. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 technically, with the way 7th work... literally anyone could take the Assassins now. you could have all of them being taken against us by Eldar, Orks, Tyranid and Tau.... and since they all infiltrate keeping them 12" away of xeno stuff is easy (well, maybe not the Vindicare) can you imagine a sit back long range Tau army suddenly mucking up your psychic backfield, making you deal with them so you can actually function as an army while they get more turns of lobbing death at you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoyOps Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 We need to template/pieplate the fracker to death, somehow. Any suggestions? Maybe it's a good time to start allying some IG for Lemun Russ Battle Cannons, or SM CM for Orbtial Bombardment or general CC awesomeness. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Imperial knights. If ya wanna make sure that pariah aint using our warps against us then why not take a lil bit over overkill to see to that that the git and its lil friends get a bit of a stomping? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Blasts/Templates are limited by the fact he's a sinlge mini unit and they will therefore only ever score 1W on him. Even dropping a Heavy Incinerator will net a wound (5/6)*(3/6) = 0.42 every time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 For 140 he had better do something really cool though. In a vacuum he is way OP, but on the table I really feel like he is one of those units that really demand attention but can be beat. Like Doom of Malintie for example. He was such a huge problem if you did not plan for him/ could not deal with they guy, but once you start figuring him out, a lot of smart players can mitigate him from "A game breaking douche," into "need to change my battle plan in this table quarter," That is all. If you are taking a Psykic Phase DEPENDENT army and get beat by this guy well you deserve it. The Warp is fickle and you should not have game planned to rely on it any way. Most armies will not be shackled by this guy. I am unsure of the exact rules on him, are all shots on him BS1 or are they Snap Shots? If it's BS 1 then template him a few times. I really think we are going to see him a lot here in the near future and then as the gimmick wears off he will pop up maybe once or twice in a 24 man event, (6-8 months from now) because he is so situational when you could be spending points on a more versatile unit for his point cost. Rate of fire kills this guy, not a big issue for an army full of storm bolters and 4 shot heavy weapons with access to prescience. Will he make our games harder? Yes. Will we as GK players have to change our battle plan when he is on the field? Sure, there are a lot of things that do. But we just need to make sure our powers are not the backbone of the army but instead a strong supplement to a soundly built Brotherhood. Otherwise you are putting yourself at the mercy of the Warp and that is not a good thing. For example, I threw 3 dice at force an a NDK last night (after drawing out all the Eldar player's other dice) knowing that all I need is a 4+ and I wiff the roll. If I played over confidently and HAD to get force, I would have been in a really bad spot but I charged his Wraithknight with other things too and it all turned out ok... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Full GK 10 Man Strike Squad. 20 Bolter Shots, 3.33 hits. 1.67 Wounds. 0.84 failed saves. A full Strike Squad isn't even guaranteed to take a single wound off the guy. And he has three... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoyOps Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Blasts/Templates are limited by the fact he's a sinlge mini unit and they will therefore only ever score 1W on him. Even dropping a Heavy Incinerator will net a wound (5/6)*(3/6) = 0.42 every time. Hence why I was suggesting Battle Cannons and other high strength plates, one save is all he needs to gib. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Which will most likely miss though. 2/3 of the time you won't get a hit, and the average scatter of 6" is more than enough to miss a single infantry model. You'd need to drop something like 5 or 6 on him to have a solid chance of landing a kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Put Prescience on that squad and now that's 1.68 wounds on the guy. Half dead. Two Incinerators should put on roughly a wound also. What is your point? I am not trying to debate his durability, I am saying you can play around him. There are plenty of other 140 point units that are tougher to kill then him. How many people have actually played against the guy? How bad was he? And did you honestly understand what he did and try and pay around him or did you get caught by surprise? Personally, a Ion Riptide with interceptor is a much bigger deal to our army than this guy. I would much rather play this Assassin than have to DS in under threat of an S8 AP2 blast with table top range that goes off before I get to throw any powers or shoot/run for arriving from reserves. Riptides are super hard to kill with the stem injector and 3++ unless we assault them with Force. A Wyvernn will kill this little turd in 2 turns by itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 His durability is not the issue, kill his transportation so he is slow and then play around him until you have a chance to/ must take him out. Servo Skulls should be really common in our lists and the ability to Null deploy means we should have an easy time countering his deployment if placed on the table. You just can't be dumb and bank on getting off GoI and then whine because he shut it down... That is what he does, so plan your engagement in such a way as to mitigate the usefulness of his power. If the guy was on a Jetbike... ok. He will truly dominate the board but he is not. The really good players win the game in the movement phase. (the only part of the game you absolutely control) Use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 As someone who uses a psykerless Codex, and regularly plays against Eldar: It's time to dig out my old Culexus from 3rd Edition, strip it down and come up with a decent backstory for why it's hanging around my army. EDIT: It only took me eight months to get around to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Put Prescience on that squad and now that's 1.68 wounds on the guy. Half dead. If the Culexes isn't within 12", they're doing it wrong. No Prescience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 How is he going to get there? He infiltrates no closer than 18 inches, (6 inches breathing room) assuming you don't have Servo Skulls in your list, which I really think most lists will/ should. You DS outside of range and shoot him. DS should really prevent him from getting the drop on you b/c you come on the board after him and know where he is. Drop in, shoot him, and run back if your worried about him. Then if he moves toward you, you move away first then repeat the process. (Move your caster out of his range and then throw your buffs) There is no way a walking single model with a 12 inch bubble will shut down all your casters on the table unless you drop close to him. (your bad) Regardless, even if it works out perfectly and you get zero powers off ever, if that shuts your army down you have bigger problems than your opponent taking an assassin. If you want to dedicate a whole thread to how one model invalidates the psychic phase, go right a head, but let's actually get it on the table before we loose our minds over it. The best case scenario is this guy in an allied transport or DP. We kill the transport if they run him across the board. Out of a drop pod we actually have the option to assault him or drop away from where he comes down if we want. If he scares you that bad, don't start DS in until turn 2. Another quick option for killing this guy => Psylincers, 2 cannons => 12 shots from 24 inches, we are snap firing any way so you can move and shoot them even with Strikes. Force on those guns alone will yield 1 force wound so a coin flip and he is dead. If you can get Prescience on those guns you now have close to 2 Force wounds... problem solves. And the best part is, you can do this off the drop because your snapping any way so you can even use PAGK to do this. Didn't work? Well you dropped in 18+ inches away, shot and then ran backwards. If it does not work, next turn you can move backward 6 inches, cast powers, and do it again. Even with a 6 inch move and a 6 inch run, so long as you are a millimeter farther than 18 inches away on the drop he can't stop you from doing it again. Just set your initial drop point out far enough to be able to get your guns in range but outside the 18 inch threat band. Very hard for that guy to catch your caster in his bubble, specially if you place your caster in the back of the DS ring. Yes he can be an issue, but not one that will "Make the Psychic Phase Meaningless," Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 So you drop with a 8 man Strike Squad and an attached Libby, in a Space Wolf Drop Pod? (He also gets to run each round for free) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 ? no. I am saying the best way for an opponent to deliver this guy is to put him in a Drop Pod. I am pointing out that even with the best delivery method (a drop pod). The guy can be played around by either dropping away from him when we come in (assuming doing 2nd). Or just assault the guy, assuming you can't shoot him down with other assets that are outside his radius. A lot of PAGK are running Incinerators now, which is a good way to reliably hit him, and should really deter a charge from this guy (not sure how nasty he is in CC but I think he ignores armor and probably goes first, he is a 140 point single model after all. This guy will be a lot worse on static armies where you know where the caster are going to have to be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Why Pod him? He has Infiltrate. Also, with 3W and hit on 6's, he's very survivable. Templates are probably the best bet to get a wound on him, but it's still being saved 50% of the time. And if you dump all your fire into him to kill him, that's protected the rest of your army. It's a win/win. This guy is totally obnoxious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Massed Psilincer/Gatling Psilincer fire with Force activated? only need one wound to get through and he's toast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 No one's using Psilencers. I suppose Gatling Psiliencer on a PT NDK (who jumps 12" so as to activate force) would be best. It's still 12*(1/6)*0.5*0.5 = 0.5 After a full round of shooting with force on. Nothing to really count on. Edit: And you'd probably just save dice to Deny the NDKs Force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I use psilincers. Took out typhus with one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Back in the day my GKGM got gun butt'd to death by some Eldar pathfinders when he charged them in a crater. There isn't a single positive reason to use a Psilencer, when we have access to the Gatling Version. And the Gatling version is pushing it as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 ? no. I am saying the best way for an opponent to deliver this guy is to put him in a Drop Pod. I am pointing out that even with the best delivery method (a drop pod). The guy can be played around by either dropping away from him when we come in (assuming doing 2nd). Or just assault the guy, assuming you can't shoot him down with other assets that are outside his radius. A lot of PAGK are running Incinerators now, which is a good way to reliably hit him, and should really deter a charge from this guy (not sure how nasty he is in CC but I think he ignores armor and probably goes first, he is a 140 point single model after all. This guy will be a lot worse on static armies where you know where the caster are going to have to be. I appreciate your optimism, but this guy is very bad news for us. Imagine him just chilling in the enemy lines while they pummel us from range. We close to get to grips with the enemy, and suddenly we've got a Culexus up our backsides. Or his potential for board control (and by extension, objective control). And aside from anything else, to kill him will require a huge points investment so even if he does nothing at all, he has provided an effective ablative layer for the enemy army. It's easy to say "don't rely on psykers" but we are Grey Knights. We are all psykers, and we pay the points for that. If our psychic phase gets messed with too much, we start the game with a huge disadvantage. This guy is going to be extremely influential in almost every game he's a part of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295997-culuxes-assasin-making-the-psychic-phase-meaningless/page/2/#findComment-3794786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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