Culuxes Assasin: Making the Psychic Phase meaningless

[boreas]

What's funny is that a culexus shooting another culexus still hits on 6's. Must be weird at the Culexus Temple School for the Gifted (or ungifted?) seeing all those culexus aspirants bumping into each other all the time in some kind of freakish brownian movement.

[FL5]

Okay, on the topic of psilencers vs. the Culexus...

 

 

The Culexus has the rule 'Psychic Abomination', which states "A Culexus Assassin can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers..."

 

So one might argue that a Force-activated psilencer would not cause instant death.

 

However, per the wording of Force, when it is activated "All of the targets' weapons that have the Force special rule gain the Instant Death special rule... (brb 23)"

 

So...  would he be affected, because Instant Death is a USR, and not a psychic power?  Or would he not be affected, as he can never be affected by psychic powers, and a psilencer can not gain the Instant Death special rule without Force?

 

I would argue that an activated Force weapon can not cause Instant Death to the Culexus, but I can see where there could be wiggle room in the interpretation.

[Adeptus]

Okay, on the topic of psilencers vs. the Culexus...

 

 

The Culexus has the rule 'Psychic Abomination', which states "A Culexus Assassin can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers..."

 

So one might argue that a Force-activated psilencer would not cause instant death.

 

However, per the wording of Force, when it is activated "All of the targets' weapons that have the Force special rule gain the Instant Death special rule... (brb 23)"

 

So...  would he be affected, because Instant Death is a USR, and not a psychic power?  Or would he not be affected, as he can never be affected by psychic powers, and a psilencer can not gain the Instant Death special rule without Force?

 

I would argue that an activated Force weapon can not cause Instant Death to the Culexus, but I can see where there could be wiggle room in the interpretation.

Well, let's look at it this way:

 

If I cast Prescience on my unit, and then use those re-rolls to hit the Assassin, has it been affected by the psychic power?

 

Strictly speaking, yes it has because it is suffering hits that have been caused due to a psychic power. But I would not think that the Assassin's special rule prevents this.

 

Let's go further. Let's say we use the Scrier's Gaze special rule to bring a unit into play be re-rolling it's reserve roll. Then we use that unit to shoot at the Assassin. Has the assassin then been affected by a psychic power?

 

Strictly speaking, yes it has, because it is suffering hits that have only been caused due to a psychic power. But I still don't think his rule would prevent that. Likewise, if the units Force weapons have been activated, I don't think the Assassin's rule will prevent the associated instant death. Yes, he's suffering instant death due to the psychic power, but the power itself is directly affecting the weapons, not the Assassin itself.

 

I'm sure no one would argue that a summoned unit of Daemons would be unable to attack a Culexus, even though they owe their existence to a psychic power.

[Izekael]

No one's using Psilencers. I suppose Gatling Psiliencer on a PT NDK (who jumps 12" so as to activate force) would be best.

 

It's still 12*(1/6)*0.5*0.5 = 0.5

 

After a full round of shooting with force on.

 

Nothing to really count on.

 

Edit: And you'd probably just save dice to Deny the NDKs Force.

Psychic abomination affects friend and foe. So no one is going to harness a roll unless they get a six. Also the casting rules affect both players. Not as bad as it looks. Using him is a big risk, but it can bit you in the ass if the controlling player doesn't knock out a significant amount of warp charges. Another thing life drain is a cc attack.

 

Stop being such a negative nancy.

[Purifying Tempest]

You know... People arguing about this shutting down GoI or something like that tends to forget that a draigo star could simply turn around and throw this guy a beating.

 

Sure he will instant death the psyckers, but Draigo probably won't care about that too much. Even the AP of the assassin means little with the storm shield.

 

Now, I don't expect it to be an easy fight, but I don't see this guy holding his own in close combat with a draigostar for very long.

 

Harder? Yes. Inconvenient? Sure. Game ending? Definitely not.

[Adeptus]

Even just tying up a Draigostar for a whole turn is a good investment for 140 points.

[Purifying Tempest]

It is for sure. But it isn't the end of the world for psyker players (specifically grey knights.

 

Isn't the movement phase before psychic powers too? So unless that guy is literally humping the unit's legs... they have a solid chance of moving out of range. Even better chance if you're a farseer on a bike or the likes.

 

He's a great 140 point distraction for psyker armies and deathstars that rely on psychcic enhancement. I don't think many armies are going to jump for this guy unless they have spare points laying around. He's pretty specialized.

[aura_enchanted]

 

 

Difficulty when he Infiltrates and Runs (as his shooting is in the Psychic Phase, and still alows him to run normally).

I reckon my turbo-boosting Jetseer can probably just about manage to stay >12" from him :)

not against a space marine army. Since he's a bb for them he can ride in a drop pod all by his lonesome.

 

He plops him down right next to the seerstar and shoots you off the table that turn with only any fnp you can get from wargear/relics to block his assassin's pistol of doom and only your saves awarded to you by wargear and relics to save you from everybody else. Since he negates fortune and all dat.

 

If your opponent brings a vindicare with a culexes he can instagib a seerstar in a single turn (in theory) barring an act of the dice gods since the vindicare has 72" range, if ignores cover, and invul str 10 ap2, heavy 1

 

He would need to roll a 1 to miss the seer thanks to his bs, and you would only be awarded a single fnp or squish.

 

The assassin dataslate is a hard counter to seerstar and invisi stars. Assassin's basically are a universal equalizer on the magic table. Screw magic users when you cab just nullify and annihilate them in your first few turns.

[The Rose Princes]

Okay, on the topic of psilencers vs. the Culexus...

 

 

The Culexus has the rule 'Psychic Abomination', which states "A Culexus Assassin can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers..."

 

So one might argue that a Force-activated psilencer would not cause instant death.

 

However, per the wording of Force, when it is activated "All of the targets' weapons that have the Force special rule gain the Instant Death special rule... (brb 23)"

 

So...  would he be affected, because Instant Death is a USR, and not a psychic power?  Or would he not be affected, as he can never be affected by psychic powers, and a psilencer can not gain the Instant Death special rule without Force?

 

I would argue that an activated Force weapon can not cause Instant Death to the Culexus, but I can see where there could be wiggle room in the interpretation.

 

Force is a Blessing that affects the unit; not the assassin.

 

as long as the unit using the psilencer is 12" away from the assassin the unit's blessing still causes the psilencer to cause Instant Death.

[ChaoticEric]

Which will most likely miss though. 2/3 of the time you won't get a hit, and the average scatter of 6" is more than enough to miss a single infantry model. You'd need to drop something like 5 or 6 on him to have a solid chance of landing a kill.

If you have LoS you can deduct the BS from scatter, the average should be a 4" scatter then? Still enough to miss though, I think?

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Which will most likely miss though. 2/3 of the time you won't get a hit, and the average scatter of 6" is more than enough to miss a single infantry model. You'd need to drop something like 5 or 6 on him to have a solid chance of landing a kill.

If you have LoS you can deduct the BS from scatter, the average should be a 4" scatter then? Still enough to miss though, I think?

 

No, because shooting at the Culexus is resolved at BS1, so if the average roll on 2 dice is 7, minus 1 for your BS gives a 6" scatter.

[Gentlemanloser]

Consider this. You have two Culexes Assassins (280 points). In between them, you have two ML3 Libbies, and two 5 man Purifiers (can't remember ML3 upgrade to gonna slightly guess at a total of 510).

These two Culexes Assassins both draw the same 10 Mastery Levels.

In your Psychic Phase, you roll a 6! Only being able to give an extra 3 WC to a single Culexes, you now able to give both an extra 3.

Each Culexes now has an BS8, Assault 13, S5, AP1 gun. That requires no Psychic Test to use, and can't be Denied.

Even if you have no other Psykers in your Army, and you two Culexes' aren't close enough to shut down (all) your opponents Psykers, don't forget, you get a 1d6 roll in their Psychic Phase of dice you can use to Deny. And *your* ML3 Psyker isn't Denying on a 6. as that's for Harnessing *only*. So you still have ML3, PH, Stave and Aegis to boost your Deny roll.

No Cleansing Flame? I'd trade that for 26 S5 AP1 shots at BS8...

As for Psychic Abomnation, it's the old Null Rod again. Can a unit with a Null Rod be effected by Doom? Doom has the attacking unit reroll failed to wound rolls. But a Null Rod isn't effected by Psychic Powers. And those rerolls effect the Null Rod unit...

Bad wording is bad.

It's interesting to note a Culexes could walk through a Vortex of Doom.

Edit:

One of the things I despise with this type of design is the hard counter one upmanship.

You don't use a Culexes. Your opponent has Invisibility and basically wins there and then. Next game, to stop that, you bring a Culexes, and you win because you totally shut down his Invisilbity-star.

So now, what do you do? Don't bring the Culexes, so your opponent wants to play you because they have a chance of winning? But you don't want to play as you have no chance versus Invisibility? Tell your opponent you won't bring the Culexes if they don't bring Invisibility? Which is tantamount to saying don't play your list, as it revolves around an Invisibility star that is too fragile to be worth it without the power?

Or do you both just end up not playing?

Hard counters like these suck. As does Rock - Paper - Scissors.

[Exile Noctis]

Consider this.  You have two Culexes Assassins (280 points).  In between them, you have two ML3 Libbies, and two 5 man Purifiers (can't remember ML3 upgrade to gonna slightly guess at a total of 510).

 

These two Culexes Assassins both draw the same 10 Mastery Levels.

 

In your Psychic Phase, you roll a 6!  Only being able to give an extra 3 WC to a single Culexes, you now able to give both an extra 3.

 

Each Culexes now has an BS8, Assault 13, S5, AP1 gun.  That requires no Psychic Test to use, and can't be Denied.

 

Even if you have no other Psykers in your Army, and you two Culexes' aren't close enough to shut down (all) your opponents Psykers, don't forget, you get a 1d6 roll in their Psychic Phase of dice you can use to Deny.  And *your* ML3 Psyker isn't Denying on a 6.  as that's for Harnessing *only*.  So you still have ML3, PH, Stave and Aegis to boost your Deny roll.

 

No Cleansing Flame?  I'd trade that for 26 S5 AP1 shots at BS8...

 

 

I think I just felt sick with how disgusting that sounded....

 

Granted if you can keep both Purifier squads and Libbys alive, you're taking out 2 squads a turn with both Culexus' not including the Purifiers shooting and assaulting as well.

[knife&fork]

 

   As does Rock - Paper - Scissors.

 

I agree with most of which you say, but not this part.

 

The R-P-S dynamic is what makes the game dynamic and interesting. Problem units that ruin the fun are those without drawbacks, those that are just plain good at (almost) everything. Even if they are fairly priced they 'break' the game by ignoring the basic mechanics you normally have to take into consideration. 

[Kilofix]

So, if you opponent is going to invest 140, points in an Allied Formation, what's to stop GK's from investing in an Inquisition Allied Formation with non-psyker Inq and 3 Flamer Henchmen and just Flame the Culexus. Shots against him are BS1 NOT Snapshot.

 

Edit - actually for 140, you can get like 6 Flamers, and then a Combi Flamer from the Inq. Sure the Culexus has T4 W3 4++ but he's going to fail a roll sometime.

 

Or you could, you know push him back with a Tank Shocking Rhino.

[Deet]

I fielded one last night vs Tyranids and he tore them up. Shut down a Flyrant and Swarmlord, making them easy prey for my allied Tau, and charged and insta-killed a Mawloc in one turn. Over 1000 points dead in a turn. Now, my opponent had no idea he was coming, what he could do or how to deal with him. Under those circumstances he is definitely OP. I think he can be dealt with for sure, but still think he's a bit cheesy and might not bring him too often.

 

Raised a question though: since he has 5 attacks on a charge and instant death, does that mean that he can insta-kill up to 5 models in a squad? How does that wound allocation go? Would a 3 wound model suck up 3 or does the ID mean each model only takes one?

[Gentlemanloser]

ID means they only take one each.

 

 

 

what's to stop GK's from investing in an Inquisition Allied Formation with non-psyker Inq and 3 Flamer Henchmen and just Flame the Culexus.

 

Nothing.

 

I'd use the Libby/Purifiers to assult those Henchmen.  While still letting the Culexes' drain WC for thier uber guns.

 

Henchmen or Purifiers in CC? ;)

[Izekael]

Just tie him up with a dreadnought. Was wrong about life drain

[Brom MKIV]

The culexus assassin is strong enough to keep gk and maybe even daemons from the competitive scene. Luckily most tournaments and plenty of local gaming groups restrict the number of CADs/allied detachments to 2 which makes the assassin far from a no brainer choice. Sadly there really isn't a good answer for gk to it other than torrenting it down, ndh for ID  or else an allied imperial knight which also covers other weaknesses we have. I'm hoping to face one paired with space wolves soon so I can see first hand just how bad it is.

[Morollan]

Difficulty when he Infiltrates and Runs (as his shooting is in the Psychic Phase, and still alows him to run normally).

I reckon my turbo-boosting Jetseer can probably just about manage to stay >12" from him

not against a space marine army. Since he's a bb for them he can ride in a drop pod all by his lonesome.

No he can't. Other than Space Wolves every Drop Pod is still a DT so no other unit can begin the game in it. If you are taking SW allies, well that's still an HQ and Troop tax to take the Drop Pod.

He plops him down right next to the seerstar and shoots you off the table that turn with only any fnp you can get from wargear/relics to block his assassin's pistol of doom and only your saves awarded to you by wargear and relics to save you from everybody else. Since he negates fortune and all dat.

He still has to get within 12", which is not guaranteed and I don't actually use a Seerstar, it's a Beaststar so my Khymerae and Razorwings will be absorbing those S5 shots and not really caring at all about the AP1. They'll then charge him on my turn and, WS1 or not, they'll still be tearing him a new one.

If your opponent brings a vindicare with a culexes he can instagib a seerstar in a single turn (in theory) barring an act of the dice gods since the vindicare has 72" range, if ignores cover, and invul str 10 ap2, heavy 1

He would need to roll a 1 to miss the seer thanks to his bs, and you would only be awarded a single fnp or squish.

Except you're now talking nearly 300 points and 2 extra detachments, which will often not be allowed.

The Culexus is a beast, no doubt about it. But he is not going to single-handedly bring down the universe.

[Gentlemanloser]

Can this ill thought unit be any more ill thought...

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/

 

 

 

If you are taking SW allies, well that's still an HQ and Troop tax to take the Drop Pod.

 

Unless you're playing unbound

[IK Viper]

Doom, doom, doom.  One model can be literally everywhere on the field, and shut down our whole army.  We cannot Deepstrike away from him, or Shunt to parts of the board he is not near.  Nor can we ever move out of his bubble in order to cast powers.  Let us all whine...    We literally cannot defeat him.  It is way to hard to kill a 3 wound T4 model that is hit on 6's. 

 

Also, despite the fact that he is probably only worth his points in 1/3 of the match-ups you will typically face in a tournament, and takes up one of your often limited Detachment limits, he will certainly be a pandemic.  We a GK players should just stop playing them game all together because of this guy.

 

Seriously, this guy is no worse than 2 Wyvernns are on a horde army.  Let's take this conversation up in 3 months and see if he really is everywhere like you suggest.  I stand by my prediction of 1-3 of these showing up in a 24-30 man event. 

[Gentlemanloser]

I really don't care about 'events' that skew 40k so much by limiting detachment numbers...

 

/shrug

[IK Viper]

Basically all the large con level events limit detachments.  LVO, BAO, NOVA, ... 

[Brom MKIV]

I really don't care about 'events' that skew 40k so much by limiting detachment numbers...

 

/shrug

That's exactly how I feel about assassins.