corai Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Personally, I'm loving the new GK codex, as it seems to encourage the combined arms (lower case, not the FO chart lol) approach to an imperial army. At the moment I'm toying around with a libby, a paladin squad (not optimal, but I already have one!) termi troops and a NDK in the NSF detachment. Backing this up I'm also planning to have my trusty TDA Ordo Malleus Inquisitor and his 3 plasma servitor pals (+ a psycher) and a further henchman squad of 2 bare bones acolytes and a psycher (18 points for +1 warp charge? yes please). This gives me a bit of a firebase and a cheap objective grabber (once first blood has been given up and they can afford to come out of hiding!) I'd also like to squeeze and imperial knight in as I love the model and haven't had an excuse to pick one up since they were released. Seems like a knight errant is a nice way to combat other LoW options. Still, this seems like the likely candidate for being dropped to allow points (if onyl becasue I don't already own one!) Finally, to round out my arms of the imperium approach I thought about a small Space Marine allied detachment to squeeze some Red Hunters in (points realistically very tight at this point though!). I had thought a small centurion squad to skyfire (undecided about armament though) and a melta/combi melta squad in a drop pod with a ML1 Libby. They way I see it, this gives me a locator beacon for any GK units which don't make it in turn 1, another warp charge point, a (risky) chance for a 1st turn alpha strike against enemy armour and a way to deal with one nasty enemy flyer. I'm not sure if diluting the GK further is really worth it though, or whether the Lascannons or Gravcannons are going to be better on the centurions. Only one turn of skyfire makes me think the lascannons are best as they can one shot a flyer and they give me some anti tank for the rest of the game, but having done the maths, I don't think there's much in it between the grav and las for bringing down a flyer in one round of shooting (espescially not if the Inq puts prescience on them) Does anyone have any thoughts? Cheers Dan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 As for Centurion armament, Grav Cannons. Every other option might as well be pea shooters. They are sickening, even at vehicle hunting thanks to re-rolls form the Grav Amps and every 6 doing a hull point and immobilising the target (which turns into more hull points if already immobilised). Does Immbolised crash flyers (can't remember off the top of my head). If they're not snap shooting, Grav Centurions can be relied on to kill almost anything in the game in 1 turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Negative. Immobilized on fliers causes either flying straight if you were zooming or stay hovering if in hover mode Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Noctis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Already mentioned but Centurions. Combine that with Tigarius and you have all you need. Stick a squad of scouts somewhere and have some fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecoyOps Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 If your area allows for FW. I'd like to suggest looking at Sevrin Loth of the Red Scorps, he's straight up one of the best psykers in the game. He can choose his powers off the tables he knows, and you can discard a psy dice to give him a 2++. Also, Red Hunters fits nicely with the Inquisition theme, plus their Chapter Tactics are a toolbox of goodies. I'd just take a SM Librarian, with Centurions and the Red Hunters Chapter Tactics. Otherwise, yeah. For now... Tiggy and Cents are the obvious go to choice. I really want to stick, Loth and some Centurions with Draigo and either give Loth Biomancy, for Endurance and personal buffing or gate with Draigo and make the squad invisible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Immobalized on a Flyer forces a roll, on a 1-2 if crashes :-( on a 3+ the result is downgraded to a 4 result a mentioned above. This effectively means that you can't "2 shot a flyer," with Grav. due to the downgrade effect, but they need a 3+ for every 6 you get to not crash and burn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Our group don't have a problem with FW as long as it's for narrative purposes and not just min maxing (so loth is out). That's what lead me to the red hunters as an obvious ally, but that precludes Tigurius as well really Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 What would an 1850 list look like, using the new GK book and allying in Tiggy and Centurions... I have a hard time making anything 'good'... This is probably the best I can come up with: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Hv. Psycannon, Teleporter, Hammer - 220 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters, Omniscope - 500 Adds up to 1850 Even. Would love a second psycannon on dreadknight, maybe drop both incinerators for one... but I'm loath to part witht he incinerators... I could see using Draigo to guarantee Gate, but where are you going to get the points? I guess I could do 60 points of sniper scouts instead of the landspeeders, but I think they're useful as fast objective secured vehicles. OOOooo.... This could be fun: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, sniper rifles - 60 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters - 490 Lose the speeders, and 5 scouts, all heavy psycannons and the omniscope, gain +1 dreadknight... now we're talking... Omniscope is pretty useful though for split fire, stopping one vehicle and annihilating another target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Those NDK are too cheap. NDK with PT, HI are 185 before the Hammer (Unless I'm misremembering and the Hammer is now a free swap. At which point I'll always take it for the Force effect). If you only want 2 NDK, you could use a NSF and only need 1 squad of Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Not according to my dex, 185 is right. Without the Hammer it's only 180 with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Nope, NDK + Tele + Incinerator + Hammer = 185 I don't know if the NSF allows for allies... if so, then yes. It says it can only contain units form Codex GK... how does that work? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Because the NSF is just an alternate detachment, no additional limitations on allies. There's nothing stopping you from mixing it with Combined Arms/Allied detachments to make your army. You could even mix it with another unique detachment, like the Wolves Unleashed or Company of the Great Wolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Nope, NDK + Tele + Incinerator + Hammer = 185 Hmmm. I'm sure I'm remembering the pictures correctly. NDK (135), PT (30), HI (20). That's 185. Unless the base price on the picture was incorrect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkOne Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 NDK is 5 points cheaper than that, stock. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiberius183 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Well, Draigo+Centurions has been talked about. Draigo tanks and also provides Gate of Infinity to get them across the table faster. Couple that with Locator Beacons on Drop Pods (or servo skulls if you take an Inquisitor) and you got a pretty dangerous Death Star unit right there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 NDK is 5 points cheaper than that, stock. Damn Blood of Kittens! Making me belive the NDK had gone up 5 base points! /shakes fist :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 What would an 1850 list look like, using the new GK book and allying in Tiggy and Centurions... I have a hard time making anything 'good'... This is probably the best I can come up with: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Hv. Psycannon, Teleporter, Hammer - 220 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters, Omniscope - 500 Adds up to 1850 Even. Would love a second psycannon on dreadknight, maybe drop both incinerators for one... but I'm loath to part witht he incinerators... I could see using Draigo to guarantee Gate, but where are you going to get the points? I guess I could do 60 points of sniper scouts instead of the landspeeders, but I think they're useful as fast objective secured vehicles. OOOooo.... This could be fun: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, sniper rifles - 60 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters - 490 Lose the speeders, and 5 scouts, all heavy psycannons and the omniscope, gain +1 dreadknight... now we're talking... Omniscope is pretty useful though for split fire, stopping one vehicle and annihilating another target. Is it really not worth upgrading the hurricane bolters to missile launcher? Given every GK model has a storm bolter I dmwouldnt have thought a few more bolter shots would be as useful as a few missile launchers to try and capitalise on the unit as a tank hunter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Noctis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 What would an 1850 list look like, using the new GK book and allying in Tiggy and Centurions... I have a hard time making anything 'good'... This is probably the best I can come up with: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Hv. Psycannon, Teleporter, Hammer - 220 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 5 Scouts, shotguns, Landspeeder Storm - 100 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters, Omniscope - 500 Adds up to 1850 Even. Would love a second psycannon on dreadknight, maybe drop both incinerators for one... but I'm loath to part witht he incinerators... I could see using Draigo to guarantee Gate, but where are you going to get the points? I guess I could do 60 points of sniper scouts instead of the landspeeders, but I think they're useful as fast objective secured vehicles. OOOooo.... This could be fun: Librarian, ML3, Liber Daemonica, Falchions - 164 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 5 terminators, Hammer, Falchions, 2 Halberd, Meltabombs, Psycannon - 208 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Dreadknight, Hv. Incinerator, Teleporter, Hammer - 185 Allies Coddex Space Marines Tiggy - xxx 5 Scouts, sniper rifles - 60 6 Centurions with Grav Cannons and Grav Amps, Hurricaine Bolters - 490 Lose the speeders, and 5 scouts, all heavy psycannons and the omniscope, gain +1 dreadknight... now we're talking... Omniscope is pretty useful though for split fire, stopping one vehicle and annihilating another target. Is it really not worth upgrading the hurricane bolters to missile launcher? Given every GK model has a storm bolter I dmwouldnt have thought a few more bolter shots would be as useful as a few missile launchers to try and capitalise on the unit as a tank hunter This is what I'm itching to hear opinions on, Missile Launcher or Hurricane Bolters? However 6 Cents = 30 shots of Grav but it seems overkill lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hurricane Bolters are defo worth it on grav. They kill all those pesky deamons, orks and Tyranid critters that grav is ineffective against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I'd definitely drop that 6 cent squad a little if for no other reason than to get draigo. 6 cents is ridiculous levels of overkill, to the point that it is going to make you suffer when it comes to engaging other targets in the same turn. A smaller squad of cents with draigo is still very lethal (moreso in an assault) and a lot more mobile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile Noctis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I'd argue that 4 is more than enough at times and the dropped points gives you enough to buff up other parts of your army. Would have Draigo and Tiggy in always no doubt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 I may be at risk of showcasing my tactical ignorance here, but why Tigurius? I get that ordinarily he is super cheap for a ML3 Libby and comes with a useful warlord trait and access to divination so marine players love him but as a GK ally what's the big deal? We already have access to cheap ML3 Libby's with divination. His warlord trait isn't used and (arguably his most useful ability) his reserve manipulation won't help us as we're not from his detachment. For all the world it seems to me like paying 100 points over a normal Libby for +2 warp charge and there are far cheaper ways of doing that. So what am I missing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I may be at risk of showcasing my tactical ignorance here, but why Tigurius? I get that ordinarily he is super cheap for a ML3 Libby and comes with a useful warlord trait and access to divination so marine players love him but as a GK ally what's the big deal? We already have access to cheap ML3 Libby's with divination. His warlord trait isn't used and (arguably his most useful ability) his reserve manipulation won't help us as we're not from his detachment. For all the world it seems to me like paying 100 points over a normal Libby for +2 warp charge and there are far cheaper ways of doing that. So what am I missing? 1) Need a SM HQ anyways. Tiggy is ML3 like you stated, and every WC is important for GK lists. Gives us more dice to drop on GoI, sanctuary, hammerhand, and more importantly deny the witch rolls. 2) That guy has crazy special rules. Rerolling reserves. Once per game prescience as a warlord trait if you want to go that way (I think that's what it is). Rerolling powers increases the chances of getting things like invisibility. And finally has access to biomancy, something GKs have no access to. If you really wanted some spice in your army. I shudder to think of Draigo hopped up on FnP and IWND (brotherhood curiass is good, right?). Edit: SM libby is also level 1 ML. Oh, and apparently tiggy rerolls failed psychic tests. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
corai Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 But 100 points for 2 warp charge to buff the rest of your army us very steep compared to the 36 points it costs for 4 acolytes and 2 psychers to do the same job from codex inq I'll accept rerolling psychic tests and access to biomancy (hadn't factored that in) but the rerolling reserves is basically useless as an ally as it only affects his detachment so doesn't benefit any GK, and as he's an allied HQ he can't be the warlord so his warlord trait is never used Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3794980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 But 100 points for 2 warp charge to buff the rest of your army us very steep compared to the 36 points it costs for 4 acolytes and 2 psychers to do the same job from codex inq I'll accept rerolling psychic tests and access to biomancy (hadn't factored that in) but the rerolling reserves is basically useless as an ally as it only affects his detachment so doesn't benefit any GK, and as he's an allied HQ he can't be the warlord so his warlord trait is never used A second squad of scouts says he can. :D Pretty pricey tax, but I think tiggy at least is worth it over a generic HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296002-advice-on-what-sm-allies-to-use-in-a-gk-list/#findComment-3795093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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