Marine age discrepancy, veterans of pre legion war

[depthcharge12]

So I was just reading Scars and remembered from other novels that some of the current marines actually fought with their primarchs on their home planets before being rediscovered by the Emperor.

 

 

How can this be? For aspirants to become marines, they must receive implantation before age 14 (or is it 16). Proper fighting age should be at least 17 for any of these marines to have actually fought and gained any form of veterancy.

 

 

Now I understand the rare case of Luther, Kor Phaeron, and Russ' old guys, but how can this be that pre teen boys are able to fight and still be young enough to still receive implantation without a hitch?

 

 

Examples are Zahariel, Nemiel, Yusugei, Xa, and Erebus.

[Komrk]

If I'm not mistaken, it's still possible simply with higher death rates among those implanted

[Marshal Rohr]

The young age is the best window of opportunity and became sop after Guillimans reforms, but it has never been an incontestable fact young adult makes couldn't receive the implantation. Men cease all biological development at 25 iirc. So that's my personal limit.

[Zeratil]

From what I remember there are 3 broad categories:

 

1.) Children young enough to recieve the full astartes implant procedure

2.) Young adults who undergo a modified procedure that is not as complete as 1.) but still creates effective warriors (Erebus, Lion El'Jonson's Knight buddies etc)

3.) Old adults who can receive some augments and bionics but are not 'true' astartes (Kor Phaeron)

 

Also remember that the Primarchs generally have the Emperor with them when they are selecting these older warriors for implantation (having just been discovered by him), so his expertise is on hand to implant people who would never survive the procedure in later millennia.

[Grotsmasha]

Also in 30k there is knowledge, not tradition and ritual, the Apothecaries of that age (imo) were more knowledgeable and competent with the implantation process.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Demus Ragnok]

Seems like I remember it being said in the DA novel that Zahariel and Nemiel were amoung the oldest to be selected at the time. They were 15 I think. And both experienced soldiers already. 

[Millicant]

It should be noted that many of these cultures did in fact have pre-teen boys as frontline fighters, making the implantation process much less of an incredulity.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Quote from FW's Betrayal:

 

'...in ideal circumstances takes place over a number of years over the course of the individual's adolescence. That the process is conducted while the subject body is undergoing maturation represents the highest chance of survivability and the lowest chance of tissue rejection, and although (at least partial) enhancement with adult subjects is possible, it is extremely dangerous and often unpredictable in result.'

[Conn Eremon]

The young age is the best window of opportunity and became sop after Guillimans reforms, but it has never been an incontestable fact young adult makes couldn't receive the implantation. Men cease all biological development at 25 iirc. So that's my personal limit.

Adding on to this, part of the reason why it became so restricted following the Heresy is because the looser standards are one of the things that are blamed for the Heresy. It was possible, but risky. During the Crusade, that risk was easily dismissed in favor of mass-producing Marines. After the Heresy, that risk is deemed too high a price to pay.

[Legatus]

During the Crusade, it was likely technologically possible to turn a grown man into a Marine, or something very close at least. Luther of the Dark Angels was already a leader when he encountered Jonson, so probably long past 30 years of age. Wasn't there a story about the warriors closest to Russ also being augmented?

[Kol Saresk]

Luther didn't become a Marine though. Like Kor Phaeron he was simply augmented to above human standards. And yes, all of Russ' "kin" underwent the process, but not all survived.

[Conn Eremon]

And we are unaware of the actual age of Russ' warriors. They were considered aged, veteran, but considering how Fenris was described in the Space Wolf series, which was the definitive Space Wolf resource from Black Library at this time, that could potentially mean an older teenager for all we know. Even then, though, for all we know there were hundreds who try, and only a bare handful who survive. And one who goes wulfen. Russ' tribe was doing quite well by then.

 

One thing Thorpe seemed to pay attention to: he made sure Corax was surrounded by young, young rebels to be inducted more easily.

[Daemon2027]

Also remember that the gene seed was a lot purer, so was easier for the hosts body to accept.

 

I think it would be cool if 40k hinted more that the loyalists geneseeds were degrading, with each generation of space marine coming closer to the last. Would add to the grimdark feel.

[Legatus]

WIth some of the Legion's genetic lines that may be the case (Raven Guard anyone?), but the Ultramarines gene-seed is described to be still very much as pure as it had been during the days of the Crusade.

[Conn Eremon]

WIth some of the Legion's genetic lines that may be the case (Raven Guard anyone?), but the Ultramarines gene-seed is described to be still very much as pure as it had been during the days of the Crusade.

As far as those in the 41st Millennium know. Which could mean just as pure, to nowhere near.

[godking]

The warriors that fought with Russ before the arrival of the emperor and who survived the trials of the wolf to gain the geneseed .

 

would have ben 35 at the very least when they where turned into space marines.

 

They fought beside Russ for 20 years before the arrival of the emperor if they began fight at 15-14 they would be 35 at least whene the emperor arrived.

 

Luther was +50 years when he was augmented into a ''false"" astartes