Should they bring BFG back?

[daveNYC]

daveNYC - have you heard about the all-metal 40k army? There's a real heft to the Adepta Sororitas models, you really feel like you've got something tangible to play with.

 

Ha!  Not all that interested in that much heft.  Seriously though, for me there's something satisfying about the heft of the BFG capital ships that appeals to me.  There's just something nice about a big-ass metal battleship model that feels right, while a unit of metal foot soldiers just doesn't do it for me.  Only downside is that the Imperial and Chaos cruisers end up feeling too lightweight for my tastes.  I wouldn't mind finding someone who could do the main hull in metal just to give them similar heft.

[Nomus Sardauk]

I'd love to see Battlefleet Gothic brought back, I always loved the look of the starships and the idea of titanic fleets clashing in orbit around worlds and in the lightless depths between star systems. I'd definitely start up a fleet if it came back, the Scarlet Sentinels shall rule the void! :D

[Jareddm]

I don't know how popular it would be with this crowd but having demoed FFG's new Star Wars Armada game, I can say that with very few changes it would work wonderfully as a BFG stand-in. Obviously the models would be preprinted like the star wars minis, but given that they already have the license for use with the 40k RPGs and Conquest, could it be possible that BFG is next?

[deathspectersgt7]

NOPE!!!

[Kol Saresk]

Actually I think BFG was actually handed to FFG before it died. I know the copies of the rules I have printed from PDFs that I found on FFG's site when the link at GW redirected me there.

[Xin Ceithan]

Yes. Please.

And do include all the ship classes mentioned in the FW HH books. Pretty please.

[daveNYC]

Actually I think BFG was actually handed to FFG before it died. I know the copies of the rules I have printed from PDFs that I found on FFG's site when the link at GW redirected me there.

 

From what I've read about the Armada rules, they seem to be trying to have a similar feel to BFG's.  Large lumbering capital ships that steer and hit like dump trucks, smaller squadrons of fighters that can mix it up between the ships, admirals that can issue orders to tweak aspects of their ships performance, really the descriptions I've read sound pretty BFGish.

 

And I'll continue to put in a good word for the idea of releasing BFG models for HH era ships.

[Subtle Discord]

 

Dread Fleet, which they promptly discontinued.

It wasn't discontinued. It was released as a limited edition from the start, like Space Hulk.

 

I still think GW is really missing a massive opportunity by ignoring lower-model-count games, and other game styles (a la BFG) that are an excellent introduction to the GW games system and universe.

The problem with that idea is that at some point GW have tried practically every possible variation on small skirmish games, including giving the rules away for free. They were selling skirmish games for the majority of their history. Really, nobody in the world can have better data on selling skirmish games alongside large scale war games than GW. And yet, they've decided not to do it.

 

So you can only really conclude one of two things:

 

1) GW looked at this great wealth of sales data, and decided they wanted to make less money.

 

2) Skirmish games don't actually have the net positive effect on their bottom line that you assume they must.

 

And let's face it, the answer isn't going to be number 1, is it?

 

 

My mistake about Dread Fleet. It was not something I paid much attention to as it was passing when I was really getting back in to 40k. In my opinion, it still begs the question as to why invest in making a limited addition game that seems to fit the model of the games that perform so badly in their sales data? I'm sure there are many underlying factors I won't pretend to know that might make it more sense, but it still seems odd.

 

Reasonable and fair points about skirmish games, but one could argue that the trend in sales shows that their current sales model isn't performing as I'm sure they would like it to. They even openly admit that they do little-to-no market research (I consider a wealth of sales data in a vacuum as slanted at best) and I would have to say that it seems like the one market for tabletop wargames that is growing well is the skirmish variety. Naturally from a games design point-of-view skirmish makes sense as it can be more concise and refined, but it also seems to point to the fact that there is a healthy market to tap into if you have the right product.

 

Many moons ago I actually worked retail for GW and I was a bit wary of the measurable sales we were tracked on for performance. Much emphasis was put on new players and introduction to the game, which made total sense; but after the initial expected sales it became very unfocused, almost like GW had lost (or never had) the plan as to what to do to keep veterans and to add variety. The point tied to skirmish games is, it was funny how we couldn't sell a great product that wasn't on the shelf! The 40kg weight around our neck back then was LoTR (the bubble had long since burst) taking up 1/3 of the shop; in North America it just didn't gain traction. I'm positive I/we could have made many more sales of specialist games if they had of been supported, marketed, and actually on the shelf.

 

I won't claim to be an authority or have some special business insight, but I still think there is a profitable market that GW could tap into. It's almost like a skirmish game can't survive in GWs current corporate culture, more that there not being profitability in the market, which is a shame. Again, just the opinion of a old-school gamer.

[Seahawk]

Despite the fact that it is the skirmish game that's selling like hotcakes right now. Every other top mini game out there that's selling is a skirmish game: Warmahordes, Infinity, Xwing, ST Attack Wing, etc. 

 

Veteran gamers want the detail and the characterization, the fluff, and the awesome. You get that in each and every one of the skirmish games (coincidentally, most of the SQ games line was exactly that!). Heck, I'd say that the loss of SG led to the jump in other companies' profits with skirmish games. GW is really missing the mark here by trying to support a failing skirmish game that few want to play (LotR) instead of those that tie in directly to their IP. 

[daveNYC]

GW might be under contract due to The Hobbit to keep LotR kicking.  Crazy thing is that from what I've heard, LotR is actually a pretty fun game.  Too bad there's no prior record of any company taking a fantasy game and translating into a grimdark future.

[Veteran Sergeant]

BFG is one of those games that wasn't super-popular in my area when it came out and its heydey was during my hiatus from 40K. But I've always liked the models and the concept. It's actually the thing from GW I'd vote "Most Likely to Buy NIB" if it was rereleased.

Well, that or another Necromunda.

[karden00]

Ahh it was so much fun. I didnt get too many games in in my day, but what I did play was exquisite. 

Much more strategic than 40k. Loved the actions you could do to your ships, the option to go for mass crippling vs outright destruction, torpedo lanes denying maneuvering, all of it. Loved the models. 

[Hyaenidae]

30k BFG?

 

 

 

C-c-c-c-Yeah Baby!

 

Oh my God, yes. Yes, yes, yes!

[Captain Semper]

Now look what you've done! You got heathens excited! I hope you're satisfied... :P

[Plaguecaster]

I'm surprised Forgeworld didn't try rebooting this with their Horus Heresy Range, I mean most of the 3rd HH book focuses on the massive fleet battle between the Imperial fists and Iron Warriors  imagine if they made a new BFG where you could have a fleet of ships to fight not only would this add a new creative twist to their Horus Heresy seriese specially as you were doing a campaign as you could re-enact some of the major fleet battles of the HH like the imperial fist and Iron warriors clash, the betrayal at Calth as well as the loyalist fleet elements trying to escape from the newly revealed traitors of the drop site massacre ( remnants of the loyalist legions did escape after all so they had to of had ships which they escaped in)

 

Even if they did a current era 40k BFG with a Horus Heresy supplement it still would of been amazing have most of the famous ships like the Terminus Est, Vengeful Spirit and Tribune, then have a range of the different classes of ships  with options to customise it weapon load outs as well as its armour and speed so each fleet becomes much more customisable.  Obviously it would depend on the size of the ships if they were made bigger then larger fleet actions would be only possible by teaming up with other players to play elements of the different fleets while if they kept it the same as it was then bigger fleet actions would be able to be played with fewer players. Besides having another aspect of the 40k universe I could collect would be awesome so I can paint up a small chaos fleet for my 40k army

[SpecialIssue]

BFG was great - low model count lists were possible, streamlined and straightforward rules - yet very characterful, exciting and fluffy games, and actual importance of positioning, timing and orientation of units. Lots of fun could be packed into an hour-long (or shorter) game. The models looked great too, with great sculpts and designs all around.

One of the best gaming systems GW ever put out. Frankly, maybe it was a bit too perfect. IMO there was almost nothing to improve or change about the core game once the unlimited attack craft rule on carriers was tweaked in the FAQ. (Ok, Eldar - too situational)

Do I want BFG back? How is that even a question? :D

*looks at latest model range for Wolves and bloated 7th editon...

Wait, wait, hold up now. Let's not rush into things.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I'm surprised Forgeworld didn't try rebooting this with their Horus Heresy Range, I mean most of the 3rd HH book focuses on the massive fleet battle between the Imperial fists and Iron Warriors imagine if they made a new BFG where you could have a fleet of ships to fight not only would this add a new creative twist to their Horus Heresy seriese specially as you were doing a campaign as you could re-enact some of the major fleet battles of the HH like the imperial fist and Iron warriors clash, the betrayal at Calth as well as the loyalist fleet elements trying to escape from the newly revealed traitors of the drop site massacre ( remnants of the loyalist legions did escape after all so they had to of had ships which they escaped in)

Even if they did a current era 40k BFG with a Horus Heresy supplement it still would of been amazing have most of the famous ships like the Terminus Est, Vengeful Spirit and Tribune, then have a range of the different classes of ships with options to customise it weapon load outs as well as its armour and speed so each fleet becomes much more customisable. Obviously it would depend on the size of the ships if they were made bigger then larger fleet actions would be only possible by teaming up with other players to play elements of the different fleets while if they kept it the same as it was then bigger fleet actions would be able to be played with fewer players. Besides having another aspect of the 40k universe I could collect would be awesome so I can paint up a small chaos fleet for my 40k army

I'm not. They only have so many man-hours to work with after all. If doing the Custodes/Sister of Silence causes a 2+ year delay on Inferno (which I'm totally not still bitter about, honest ), then there's no way they have the resources to essentially prop up another, separate game system as well.

Not saying FW HH BFG wouldn't be awesome, but it's absence isn't that surprising.

[Kythnos]

I'd really like GW to bring back BFG. Even if that might lead to big changes in the way the game works right now, it would at least allow now players to enter the game. Since they discontinued the production of BFG ships, the prices have went way up on almost every site where you can buy the models second hand (and of course, the available auctions have been steadily declining as well), so it's extremely hard to get new players into the game, even though the rules are awesome and there is definitely some interest in my gaming group.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

I'd also be up to see a return of Battle fleet gothic. While I've not played it as often as I'd like, I have enjoy the games I played. There a few people around here who do play it or started a fleet when we had a campaign on the go that my club.

Also I've always like the models but would prefer if they where all plastic, just I really hate building metal models.

I got a all plastic fleet for my Iron Warriors using the 13th Black Crusade list, start the second version (first version was painted using the old inks & trying to move away from that) of this army a year or so ago after I bought so many Chaos ships for bits to convert with my 40k Iron Warriors. Then I bought a Space Wolves fleet a few year back.

I'd always like the battle report many years ago which saw 40k & BFG, where a strike force of Templars fought Word Bearer for 40k. It would effect the BFG game. From what I'd always like a idea of using this for a campaign, using 40k standard & kill team mission + Battle fleet gothic.

Pretty much Warhammer 40,000 is my main game. Follow by Battlefleet Gothic & Space Hulk

[Marshal Rohr]

I'd love BFG to come back

[depthcharge12]

Now look what you've done! You got heathens excited! I hope you're satisfied... :P

How could you say no to a face like that? :P

 

 

I'd totally enjoy 30k BFG, and it would still allow for other alien races.

 

 

But it would be cool to see the different mechanics that each legion uses for void warfare. For example, Imperial Fist void sieges, teleportation boarding parties, special xenos artifacts (looking at you dark angels :P), and most of all...

 

World Eater magna harpoons :drool:

[StruManChu]

Came in to say a big Hellz Yeah, and also to mention FFG's X-Wing/Armada.

 

Glad to see this has been covered already. It was mentioned upthread, but if FFG do have the licence for BFG and it hasn't reverted back to GW, maybe this is something we'll see in future, especially given the massive success of X-Wing. I'm not sure how GW would feel having a licensee becoming a direct competitor though. I imagine not great.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Would I! With the interest in space battles, I think BFG could sell and be a gateway to 40K. However, I think it needs some overhauling first.

 

1: Get rid of the gunnery table. It's obnoxious to have to stop and consult it every time a ship shoots. It could be done away with by having gun batteries be based on multiples of 4 instead of 6. Full strength against capital ships closing or moving away, half strength abeam, re roll misses against defenses or at point blank. Half that vs escorts. Easy to remember, and the math winds up virtually the same.

 

2: Get rid of the fiddly rules in the missions.

 

3: Fix balance issues. Chaos cruisers are all under costed compared to their Imperial Navy counterparts, and the Chaos cruisers are generally just flat out better.

[Kristoff]

I would enjoy seeing it come back. The problem is that if GW does it entirely, it will just be another one-off game with no further support like Dreadfleet. To which:

To think, instead of doing a proper reboot of Battle Fleet Gothic we got... Dread Fleet, which they promptly discontinued. You'd think if they were willing to invest what they did on the face-plant that was DF, someone at HQ would have perhaps considered some BFG development along side DF. Even if it was as quickly abandoned, at least BFG would have been refreshed and fleshed out before being put out to pasture.

 

Dreadfleet was always intended to be a one off from the beginning. And even my LGS was informed as such (I can't say for others). This alone created a damper on wanting to buy it. If it was presaging a BF Fantasy line, it wouldn't have had such a short sale list. Part of the problem is their market isn't looking for a fast-build game, but one that they can build up. Hobby is part of the game, and not everyone wants to have a bunch of one-offs that have a limited playing scope.

 

My LGS still has 30 of them, I think.

 

To be fair to GW, I can't endorse Dreadfleet as a car crash. I played it in store a couple of times for giggles and it was pretty entertaining. The mechanism for the wind-based movement of the ships was unusual and made for some interesting strategies.

 

I can endorse Dreadfleet as a car crash, but more of an intentional one, like a demolition derby. It could have been market research to feel out the concept that they may expand on later, but when you have people believing it's a one-off built intentionally with no legs, getting their buy in is hard.

 

I don't know how popular it would be with this crowd but having demoed FFG's new Star Wars Armada game, I can say that with very few changes it would work wonderfully as a BFG stand-in. Obviously the models would be preprinted like the star wars minis, but given that they already have the license for use with the 40k RPGs and Conquest, could it be possible that BFG is next?

 

I would endorse FFG making a BFG line. They are already handling the RPGs for the 40K universe, so it wouldn't be a stretch. The only question would be is if they would actually take it. With their own capital ship line being launched soon, it may be considered a conflict of interest, no matter how good it would be.

 

Despite the fact that it is the skirmish game that's selling like hotcakes right now. Every other top mini game out there that's selling is a skirmish game: Warmahordes, Infinity, Xwing, ST Attack Wing, etc. 

 

Veteran gamers want the detail and the characterization, the fluff, and the awesome. You get that in each and every one of the skirmish games (coincidentally, most of the SQ games line was exactly that!). Heck, I'd say that the loss of SG led to the jump in other companies' profits with skirmish games. GW is really missing the mark here by trying to support a failing skirmish game that few want to play (LotR) instead of those that tie in directly to their IP.

Oddly enough, Skirmish games are more easily marketed to new gamers. There is a smaller buy in making it easier to get in and start without the investment, even if build up of the stable can cost the same as Warhammer. While 40K is NOT a skirmish game, but GW focuses too much on the new gamer and not the veterans that actually would build out the game.

[Urauloth]

http://i.imgur.com/WdYgxQ9.gif

 

Yes.