Hear da Lamentation Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I play a lot against this army - usually 2 Flyrants at 1500points, both with 2 of those guns which shoot 12 Str6 shots. I've been dying for some anti flier for a long time - and now we have the Storm Wolf. BUT ... I am trying this out in my mind, and I can see the Storm Wolf getting taken out as soon as it arrives by the 2 Flyrants. Even with Jink that is a lot of shots to save. What's the Fang's tactics on these little flying beasts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think you're overestimating the Flyrant offensive potential. 12 Devourer shots will on average do 1-2 hull points without jinking. Whereas a Storm Wolf with multi meltas will be doing 3-4 wounds on a Flyrant. So you've got decent odds in down one Flyrant on the turn you come on. Otherwise, bring 2 Storm Wolves? Or chuck some ground fire at them, chip away/ground them, then bring on the flyer for the coup de grace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Flyrants can jink, though- And have twin-linked guns with a lot of shots, so Jinking isn't a huge deal. Also, you're not going to get more than one multi-melta shot at it- the Flyrant body is too small, and wings don't count as part of the model. Plus, there's still the Lascannon LoS question. If you're going for solid anti-air, you probably want 2 Stormwolves and some reserves manipulation, just for practicality's sake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Lascannon LoS question? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 2+ storm wolves best way might get lucky with helfrost But having something to help whittle them What about hero with helm of durfast (no jink)Maning a antiaircraft gun to help chip away at them Long fangs with flak + rune priest Also try grounding them getting them in cc But basically them are even better now than in 6th with new grounding rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 2 Stormwolves is helluva lot of points. 470 to be precise. Have you thought about an allied IG hydra squadron? Force grounding checks and then rip them apart in melee. Outside of that you have Long Fangs but that's about it really. If you play with Forge World, there are some interesting options there, like the Fast Attack Turrets (forgot the name). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Quad gun is an option. Or two storm wolfs. If you can't get both MM in arc use PotMS to shoot at the other flyrant. Requires some tricky flying. You can also try to ground them. If one falls it should take a wound. And if you have a tooled up unit of T wolves they should eat a wounded tyrant pretty quickly. T wolves are fast enough you should be able to get in range of a flyrant and if it falls. nom nom nom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3795999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I use a fire raptor. flyrants have a 3+ armor and can toe-in to cover, so they won't ever jink, unless the player isn't paying attention. avenger bolt cannon puts 7 twin-linked shots out at str 6 ap 3. the ac batteries divert at the crones I assume are also on the table. throw a pair of str 8 ap2 missiles at the flyrant, and he's got some trouble. That's before you throw a stormwolf at him. That's assuming you go second. I prefer to kill them on the runway by going first and dropping ulrik, a bunch of plasma, and a culexus assassin on them at the top of turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Lascannon LoS question? Strictly speaking, the lascannons/stormstrike missiles can't see targets on the ground because the model itself is in the way, so being able to rotate down 45° doesn't work. I don't think this was the model-maker's intent, but by RAW the twin-linked lascannon on the Stormwolf can only shoot at things on flying bases because it can't see anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Right, I'd noticed that with the Helfrost turret, but not the hull lascannon. Ah, the joys of models designed without any reference or concern given to the game they're meant to be played in... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Thanks guys for help so far. Just on maths hammer (roughly) 2 flyrants kick out 48 twin linked S6 shots at 24" range and have 360 arc. If they both come on at same time that's about 40 hits, about 6 glances ! Some fancy flying is gunna be needed :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I think you have your numbers wrong. Each Twin Devourer only fires six shots, meaning each Flyrant only kicks out 12 shots, rather than 24. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Doh ! I do indeed, sorry. So halve that then .... 3 glances. Doable if you jink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theduke08 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Lascannon LoS question?Strictly speaking, the lascannons/stormstrike missiles can't see targets on the ground because the model itself is in the way, so being able to rotate down 45° doesn't work. I don't think this was the model-maker's intent, but by RAW the twin-linked lascannon on the Stormwolf can only shoot at things on flying bases because it can't see anything else. Do you actually play this way? Or do you play against people that play that way? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 So less than 1000 points left in his list, might i suggest you put everything in Landraiders and just barge through to his squishy stuff. 12x Str6 shots have a hard time doing something to that armour 14 and if he lands you can drive away. You play Spacewolves, act like it and fight in spots of your choosing, not some silly Hiveminds choosing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Lascannon LoS question?Strictly speaking, the lascannons/stormstrike missiles can't see targets on the ground because the model itself is in the way, so being able to rotate down 45° doesn't work. I don't think this was the model-maker's intent, but by RAW the twin-linked lascannon on the Stormwolf can only shoot at things on flying bases because it can't see anything else. Do you actually play this way? Or do you play against people that play that way? I think my metagame is casual enough that they'd be fine withthe storm wolf adjusting it's angle of attack, but I have talked with people in stricter metagames where they do enforce the Line of Sight requirement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfgar hammerfist Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I don't think that I would enjoy that type of environment, however, if I were to find myself playing against such players I would model the Stormwolf on a slightly downward angle to open up the LOS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I don't think that I would enjoy that type of environment, however, if I were to find myself playing against such players I would model the Stormwolf on a slightly downward angle to open up the LOS. Modeling for an advantage isn't kosher... Anywhere, much less in metagames like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 If it's a choice between a slight model adjustment, and not being able to use the capability you've paid cash and points for, the sort of who'd give you beef over something like that isn't worth the time of day, let alone a couple of hours for a game. Besides, you don't necessarily need to adjust the angle, just shorten the flying base and LoS shouldn't be a problem (and if you need to, claim you did it for transportation reasons). Again, the -retentive killjoys who'd give you grief over something like that have forgotten (or are ignoring) that the idea that both participants should enjoy the game, so to hell with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonarmy Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 When i play my nids the flyrants usually die to TL assault cannon fire. They annihilate other flyers because of their 360 degree fire arc, so if positioned correctly only take 1 turn of shooting at worst. A guy I play with regularly uses a fair few razorbacks and these guys are great at causing wounds to the flyrants. 4 S6 shots is good against an MC and any 6's that get through rend. I know the odds of hitting and then rending are low but they still seem to do damage. Being twin linked means that you have 8 chances to get a 6 and when he is firing 3-4 assault cannons at a tyrant that is often enough to take a few wounds off. Weird thing is that when ever i run the numbers it doesn't seem viable but they always seem to get me. I think its a case of if you are rolling 12 dice (in the case of 3 assault cannons) then you are giving yourself a chance to get a fair few hits, and the re-rolls only help matters. And lets be honest flyrants are a priority as they will harass your units, they will down fliers and killing them will make nids crumble. So focussing fire on them is not a bad thing :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Well, I don't see that as modelling for an advantage, just fixing a mistake . Clearly they didn't intend to produce a model which can't hit anything on the ground :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Thanks Toonarmy. Good to hear from Nid perspective. I really don't want to tailor to this army, but it sure is hard to get an army to face everything and still deal with 2 Flyrants. HDL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 The storm wolf is slightly tilted by default plus the lascannons can see down the side from the mount point iirc it does not say every barrel needs to see the target Not saying its easy but is possible when I have tried with mine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3796689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdall Skullcrusher Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 With the storm wolf if you position the base so it goes under the pilots seat it will sit at an angle. That isn't modeling for advantage. That is just a pilot lining up for a shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3797017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squark Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Ah, so there's that. You probably will have trouble shooting at things right in front of you, but flyers in general have problems hitting things directly under them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296097-tyranid-flying-circus/#findComment-3797898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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