Brother Vidius Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 My local GW is having a painting challenge this month. The challenge is to paint up 650pts of any army, which is a great excuse to start a new one! I'm very much leaning towards a Black Legion force! I only play 30K and Fantasy, so 40K is pretty much alien to me these days. I'm just looking for some advice for a starter army. Is the attack force a good buy? Or is it better to spend that money elsewhere? I'm not looking for an overly competitive force but one that will at least be able to hold it's own in games. I'll no doubt catch the bug and expand the army as well! Any help would be very much appreciated! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Separately, the contents of the Attack Force will run you £154, but you do get a fair amount of savings with the set at £123. As far as holding it's own, well I would do more research to see what people have been running/what they like to run before spending. That way you have an idea of what you actually want to get. If I had the cash I'd get the Attack Force, but I already have so much that I need to glue up and paint that I shouldn't really get it... mostly... I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Abaddon, unit of Bringers of Despair, 2x5 marines. That should be about right points wise If you like all of the models in the attack force, then it is a good buy. If it's cheaper to buy the models that you want from the force separately, then it's a poor buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vidius Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 There's a good mix of armies at my local store so I could potentially face anything! If the box is near 650pts then chances are I'll buy it to paint it up and then can add units to it. I've also got the Dark Vengeance set as well so have a few more options with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 The attack force is the one with termy lord, termies, raptors, maulerfiend, squad and rhino, right? That's way way over 650pts. Actually, its about 647pts if you take everything in the box, and add no upgrades whatsoever. You could probably get the box to just under 1000pts with upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vidius Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 Yeah that's the one! I think it looks like I'll be getting the attack force, some Black legion shoulder pads and the finecast Daemon Prince. Are there any auto includes for a Chaos force? What about dedicated units like Noise Marines, are these a good option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 finecast Daemon Prince. Are you sure you want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 finecast Daemon Prince. Are you sure you want to? There's only one "Finecast" demon prince... and that's Be'lakor. Which, from what I understand, is a support beast. I fully endorse his rules, the same cannot be said for what he's cast in. I hate the stuff personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Are there any auto includes for a Chaos force? What about dedicated units like Noise Marines, are these a good option? The only unit I need to take every time are auto-cannon Havocs... and maybe a quad gun to go with them. They can shred a unit. Yeah, they can't do jack to a Land Raider but they can set up a fire lane real nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 finecast Daemon Prince. Are you sure you want to? There's only one "Finecast" demon prince... and that's Be'lakor. Which, from what I understand, is a support beast. I fully endorse his rules, the same cannot be said for what he's cast in. I hate the stuff personally. There's this guy. Oh, and the Nurgle one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vidius Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Yeah the Power armoured Daemon Prince, I have an old metal one but it's a real pain to build. I've never had any problems with finecast so that's probably famous last words. I've taken the plunge and ordered, managed to get the attack force and the codex for £121! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I've ever got one finecast miniature, Warpsmith. As our 'uncle' once said, nevermore! Metal, plastic, conversion, scratch build, anything but finecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 finecast Daemon Prince. Are you sure you want to? There's only one "Finecast" demon prince... and that's Be'lakor. Which, from what I understand, is a support beast. I fully endorse his rules, the same cannot be said for what he's cast in. I hate the stuff personally. There's this guy. Oh, and the Nurgle one. Doh! I thought they discontinued the old powered armor demon prince, I have 2 metal ones.... one built and one in progress. I completely forgot about the Nurgle one as well... hur-da-dur... Thanks for pointing those out, I'd still rather lose a pinky than work with that stuff... I've had nothing but bad experiences with it. I know not everyone has had bad dealing with the stuff, but I'll stick to plastic and would rather work with metal if it came down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have found Landraiders to be auto includes for Black Legion, given that Chosen are assault focused elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have found Landraiders to be auto includes for Black Legion, given that Chosen are assault focused elites. This. I have recently bought myself an FW Spartan too *manic, evil laughter* .......though I haven't built it yet, I am a bit scared to after the stories *sobs* But yeah, despite their bad press I am doing alright with Land Raiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I favour Rhinos. Easier to hide in cover, Havoc, cheap and more than enough to keep me alive for several turns. I usually favour units that shoot well, but I also tend to field mixed armies, for example, Berzerkers and Plasma Chosen. A Rhino rush is a viable tactic as long as you play for target saturation. The Land Raiders are awesome too, yet I struggle to commit all those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You can go lots of ways with Black Legion. I like to have a core of basic troops myself, so before going wild with terminators, chosen, etc, I'd start off with a basic foundation of a couple squads of regular CSMs (2x10, with pair special weapons, magnetized for melta or plasma), 2 rhinos for the marines, and 2x10 cultists (second hand starter box cultists works well, or you could just split a DV box with a DA player). From there, though, the sky's really the limit with Black Legion. Abaddon doesn't care how the Chaos Lords in his service organize their forces, so long as they can get their jobs done. Marked lord and cult units? bikes? raptors? vehicles/walkers? cultist hoarde? whatever. If there are models you appreciate aesthetically, get those. In terms of what works best mechanically, though... Nurgle lords on bikes with 4++ and PFist/Lclaw, in units of 5 to 6 bikes, unmarked or mark of nurgle, pair melta. Nurgle princes with daemon weapon. MSU plague marines with special weapons in rhinos. MSU cultists to sit on objectives Nurgle Spawn Nurgle or unmarked bikes (see nurgle lord) Maulerfiends (only in multiples, and supported with bikes/spawn, one on its own is pointless) Not great, but not bad either, are Sorcerers (on bikes if possible, with the last memory), MSU terminators with combi weapons, basic CSMs with special weapons, giant spawn (FW unit), heldrakes (much diminished from its heyday, but not awful), Nurgle obliterators, MSU Chosen with special weapons in rhinos, MSU chosen with single lascannon in the backfield, havocs with lascannons or autocannons, Warpsmiths, Khârn, Abaddon, Typhus, mid size Berzerker or melee Chosen units in land raiders with one of the aforementioned special characters, mid sized terminator units in spartans, MSU Noise marines with single blast master in backfield, mid size noise marine units with sonic blasters in rhinos, raptors (bikes are just better versions of the same thing, but raptors aren't terrible) Other units / configurations are ime kind of baddish, but... Here's the thing. The CSM book isn't exactly good. It's kinda baddish in general. Trying to build a competitive CSM army is a thankless, unrewarding, uphill battle. Better to pick models you like, and throw yourself into lore, conversions, and painting, and come up with an army that you can feel proud of, that you can feel you won with simply by deploying it and looking so awesome that your opponent is left feeling humbled and shamed, regardless of the game results. As such, while the attack force isn't exactly a coherent or effective foundation for an army mechanically, if you like the models in it it can still be a great way to start a CSM collection. I would definitely recommend looking into some cultists and / or more CSMs and another rhino relatively quickly, though, as, competitiveness aside, the lack of core troops does cut into the attack force's playability out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Great post mali, insightful as always. I personally advocate at least three Rhinos in a CSM army with Havoc ML, they are a cheap version of a Razorback but if played right they are always a nuisance. Pop some MSU Cult Troops, Chosen or simply five CSM and they will do their job. Use them to harass and pin the troops of your adversary while our hard hitters close in and murder what cannot fight back. For hard hitters I suggest Spawn, Maulerfiends, a Heldrake and the awesome thing that is the Mayhem Pack, three Helbrutes in Deep Strike. With the sheer amount of AV 12 that you would field for cheap every army is hard pressed for not only it has to knock down hull points but also more often than not those very hull points fight back fiercely. Add in a Daemon Prince with a Spell Familiar and ML 3 for summoning duty and you will have a good, receptive and defiant army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 As usual, i fully endorse the above comments. Since we are not 'top-tier' you need to start with units you love the look of/ background for. I would highly suggest spawn and bikers. Take a Giant Spawn at this point level and it will do a lot of damage. Modelling - I would stay clear of most of the 40k line and concentrate on 30k armour variants, EyeofHorus shoulderpads and legion style bolters - but thats for my own aesthetic. You may want lots of mutations, top knots etc. Last point - make sure you post EVERYTHING because that how th ecommunity survives. Ill be posting all my stuff when I get my order in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Better to pick models you like, and throw yourself into lore, conversions, and painting, and come up with an army that you can feel proud of, that you can feel you won with simply by deploying it and looking so awesome that your opponent is left feeling humbled and shamed, regardless of the game results. Conversions and general bad-addness is the reason many (most?) of us play Chaos. Also find a way to get the DV set models, so you can grab the cultists. They compliment the Attack force nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vidius Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Wow some great responses there! Many thanks guys, much appreciated! I have the Dark Vengeance set so I've got those models as well. I'll be popping into GW tonight so may pick up a squad. What exactly is MSU? Scoring unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 MSU is 'multiple small units' or 'minimum strength units'. In either sense it refers to taking units at or near minimum strength, in order to field more units, or more special weapons, or minimize losses if the unit is lost in the case of sacrificial units. ie, 'termicide' or 'MSU terminators'. Deep striking terminators is a dangerous prospect for us, since we have no real scatter mitigation. if you take a big unit, you could lose the game if it mishaps, and could be on a very bad footing if the unit shows up late or scatters widely so consider instead of one big terminator unit, a unit or two of three terminators with combi meltas. three combi melta terminators can still be a dangerous threat to backfield tanks, and can be a difficult thorn for the opponent to remove from their side. But if they show up late or scatter badly or don't show up at all, then you haven't lost so much of your force. Likewise, if you take two units of 3, then at least some of them are more likely to arrive where and when you want. Similarly, two small units of plague marines can take more plasma guns and thus have considerably more offensive impact than one big unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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