Raeven Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Why can't the Culexes *stop* the Gate, before the Gate ends? Gate is stopped 'immediately' the instant a single mini for a unit comes within 12" of it. That has to be before the power finishes normally. What happens when a Gate is stopped before it finishes? Can *any* Psychic power be stopped before it is finished? Or does the Culexes power simply not work. My argument relies on the simple fact that there is no consequence listed in the rules, thus no ill effect. So it doesn't matter. Since scatter is out of either players control, not even the rules can prevent it from happening. If the rules said scatter within the field is impassable terrain for certain rules, sure. but they don't. They are silent on the matter. Thus, everything you are proposing is essentially a house rule. Honestly, it's could even be said that it is RAI to say that you cannot choose to deep strike within 12" of the assassin, since the Gate power has already gone off at some place 12" away from the assassin. All the power does is trigger a Deep Strike event, which is not a psychic power. Like Morollan said, the power has gone off. The deep strike is not the power, it is simply the result of the power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not to complicate things, although that is what I'm after :P What if the scatter distance went through the 12" bubble and out the other side, so the final destination is not within 12" of the culexus? Like the unit just clips the edge of the bubble as it scatters? I can see it going one of two ways: 1. The unit stops as it enters the bubble. (The narrative option, to me) 2. Since the unit ends in a legal position, just let it land there. (The tournament/time-constrained option) Either way, play on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not to complicate things, although that is what I'm after What if the scatter distance went through the 12" bubble and out the other side, so the final destination is not within 12" of the culexus? Like the unit just clips the edge of the bubble as it scatters? I can see it going one of two ways: 1. The unit stops as it enters the bubble. (The narrative option, to me) 2. Since the unit ends in a legal position, just let it land there. (The tournament/time-constrained option) Either way, play on. The unit doesn't clip anything when it scatters as the unit is not there. You mark the intended point of arrival (A) and then roll the scatter dice to determine the final position (B) but the unit does not arrive at A and travel to B. It simply arrives at B. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 All the power does is trigger a Deep Strike event, which is not a psychic power. Like Morollan said, the power has gone off. The deep strike is not the power, it is simply the result of the power. As I said, that arguement could apply to every Psychic Power, and is quite, vapid. All Leviatation dies is trigger a 12" move, which isn't a power. Just a Move. All Psychic Shriek does is cause some wounds, which isn't a power. When do the effects of a Psychic Power stop being the effects of a Psychic Power? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 The unit doesn't clip anything when it scatters as the unit is not there. You mark the intended point of arrival (A) and then roll the scatter dice to determine the final position (B) but the unit does not arrive at A and travel to B. It simply arrives at B. Don't mind Quozzo and I, I think we're having a slightly different conversation from the rest of y'all. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 All the power does is trigger a Deep Strike event, which is not a psychic power. Like Morollan said, the power has gone off. The deep strike is not the power, it is simply the result of the power. As I said, that arguement could apply to every Psychic Power, and is quite, vapid. All Leviatation dies is trigger a 12" move, which isn't a power. Just a Move. All Psychic Shriek does is cause some wounds, which isn't a power. When do the effects of a Psychic Power stop being the effects of a Psychic Power? Gate of Infinity doesn't process like a normal blessing or malediction. It doesn't have a duration. It causes an immediate Deep Strike. Because of the way the Psychic Abomination power is worded, I would not allow a model to be "placed" within 12" of the assassin. The rest is house rule territory. It's up to you whether or not you would treat the scatter like impassable terrain, or shorten it like a drop pods guidance system, when it hits the barrier of the assassins power, or let scatter happen like normal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3802931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I read it as no powers can be activated/active within the 12" bubble. As the power was activated outside the bubble, and does NOT have an ongoing effect like hammerhand, prescience ect, then the power works as normal... in my opinion anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 So you can shoot a Psychic Shriek into a Culexes 12" bubble (at another unit, not the Culexes...) if manifested from outside? It has no ongoing effect. And you can Levitate through as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Well there is nothing saying that you can't is there Just making your own narratives really. Ideally it needs an FAQ. But then again... GW are lazy.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Isn't the 'effect' of Psychic Shriek the wounds it casues? Aren't the effects of Gate and Levitate the movement they allow? Could you then shoot a Culexes with a Psychic Shriek, as even though the Culexes isn't effected by any Psychic Powers, the wounds caused aren't a effect of a Psychic Power so still stand? I think it's kind of obvious that if you use a power, anything that power cuases to happen is an effect of that power. Be it wounds, better saves, movement or just removing units from the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Isn't the 'effect' of Psychic Shriek the wounds it casues? Aren't the effects of Gate and Levitate the movement they allow? Could you then shoot a Culexes with a Psychic Shriek, as even though the Culexes isn't effected by any Psychic Powers, the wounds caused aren't a effect of a Psychic Power so still stand? I think it's kind of obvious that if you use a power, anything that power cuases to happen is an effect of that power. Be it wounds, better saves, movement or just removing units from the board. Where does that end? Can't be hit by shots that are re-rolled due to Prescience? Don't get a cover save from Shrouded (assuming shooting from >12")? Can't be brought in from reserve if the reserve roll is re-rolled due to Scrier's Gaze? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Totally agree (and this arguement was had back in the day with Null Rods. Can't be effected by any Psychic Powers.). Where is the line drawn? It can be taken to extreme both ways. Ultra restrictive, or so impotent as to be next to useless. And getting a subjective and *fair* implementation is going to be next to impossible. This ability was badly thought out, and *really* needs input from GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeven Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Or you are putting too much stock in it. Just look at it in the simplest of terms. Does gate, as a blessing, carry with you? No. So gate, as long as you cast the spell outside the 12", cannot be affected by the culexus power. For fluff purposes, you can say they cannot gate within the 12" bubble or that scatter would stop at the edge of the bubble, based on how the power is worded. But there is really nothing to suggest either of those restrictions. Prescience, on models outside 12" of the culexus. Do they get their rerolls against the assassin or not? Yes. If not, why not? Do they get them within 12" of the assassin? No. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296183-culexes-assassin-versus-gate-of-infinty/page/3/#findComment-3803805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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