7th Edition Dark Angels: Re-inventing the Wheel

[L30n1d4s]

So, just say Dark Angels got a new book for 7th edition, taking the same approach as Grey Knights; i.e. no new units/models, just adjustment of what they already have, plus some new Detachments and revised WL traits/relics.


Below is my take on how GW might go about this, however unlikely it might be ..... Please note, some of these ideas would not just be for DA, but for all Space Marine Codexes that use that unit (i.e. for example, letting all Predators, from ALL codexes, have the war gear that grants them either Shred or Tank Hunters).

For all the units in this proposed 7th edition C: DA, they have all the same stats, prices, abilities, etc. as they currently do unless it specifically addressed in the ideas listed below.


How would you "re-build" Dark Angels in light of 7th edition and the trends from recent codexes (i.e. Orks, SWs, GKs)?


----------------------------
SPECIAL CHARACTERS
*AZRAEL
-Becomes Lord of War, gains Eternal Warrior USR.
-He no longer makes DW Terminators and RW Bikers troops, but gives them the Objective Secured rule.
-Gains Special Rule called “Master of Battle” which gives all Dark Angel Scout, Tactical, Assault, Devastator, Veteran, and Command squads (no DW or RW Command squads, though) from the same detachment the Preferred Enemy rule for a single game turn.
-His Relic Armor changed to give him FNP(5+), vice the old FNP(6+).

-His Relic Sword gains "Smite" Special Rule (same rule that DW Knight Maces have; one Assault Phase per game, becomes S10 AP2)

*EZEKIEL
-Gains Special Rule called “Vision of Vengeance” which enables him to ignore enemy Look out Sir rolls when using a Witchfire/Focused Witchfire power.
-His Book of Salvation radius for boosting WS of nearby DA changed from 6” to 12”.

-His Relic Sword gains "Bane of the Traitor" special rule.

*ASMODAI
-His Blades of Reason gain ability to cause all non-Dark Angel units within 12” of him to have -2 Leadership.
-Gains Special Rule called “Rites of Retribution” which is identical to the War Hymns rule that Priests from Adeptus Sororitas/Astra Militarum/Inquisition codexes have (i.e. if he passes a leadership test, then he grants his squad re-rolls for all saves in close combat or the Shred USR in close combat or grant himself Smash USR in close combat).

*BELIAL
-Gains another wound (4W total).
-He no longer makes DW Terminators troops, but gives them the Objective Secured rule.
-He makes all DW Terminators/DW Knights/DW Command Squads/DA Independent Characters in TDA not scatter when deepstriking.

*SAMMAEL
-Night Halo grants a 3++ (vice 4++) for both Corvex and Sableclaw.
-He no longer makes RW Attack Squadrons troops, but gives them the Objective Secured rule.

-He makes all RW Attack Squadrons/RW Black Knights/RW Command Squads /DA Independent Characters on Bikes able to Turbo-boost 6” and still shoot (this is an option they can choose each turn in place of turbo-boosting up to 12”).

----------------------------
*COMPANY MASTER
-May take Space Marine Bike now (NOTE: Space Marine Bike grants any DA Independent Character who takes it the Skilled Rider USR).
-Gains Special Rule called “Master of Battle” (see Azrael entry for rules).

*INTERROGATOR CHAPLAIN
-Gains Special Rule called “Rites of Retribution” (see Asmodai entry for rules).
-Price increased to 120 points a model.

*LIBRARIAN
-No change.

*TECHMARINE
-May take one Techmarine (without using a FOC slot) for each HQ choice you have in the same detachment, not counting other Techmarines, Servitor squads, or Command squads of any type.

*SERVITOR SQUAD
-Up to three Servitors may replace their Servo-arm with a Heavy Bolter (free), Multi-Melta (+5 points), or Plasma Cannon (+10 points).

*COMMAND SQUAD
-May upgrade one model to a Company Champion for +20 points, giving him +1WS and a Blade of Caliban and Combat Shield upgrade. Blade of Caliban grants +1S and +2 to his Invul save (so a 4++ with the Combat Shield) while in a challenge. The Blade of Caliban in a regular Power Sword outside of challenges.

*DW COMMAND SQUAD
-Base cost reduced to 175 points.

*RW COMMAND SQUAD
-May upgrade one model to RW Company Champion, granting him +1WS and Ravenhammer (+1S AP3 Rending) in place of his Corvus Hammer.

----------------------------
TROOPS
*TACTICAL SQUAD
-For every 5 models, may take either one Special Weapon or one Heavy Weapon.
-Flak Missile upgrades reduced to +5 points per ML.
-Heavy Bolter upgrade reduced to +5 points.

*SCOUT SQUAD
-Gain Stubborn USR.
-Reduced costs to 11 points per model (+1 point to take Sniper Rifles now, just like C: SM).
-Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant may take Locator Beacon for +20 points.
-For every 5 models, may take either a Heavy Bolter (+5 points), a Missile Launcher(+15 points) with option for Flak upgrade (+5 points per ML), or a RW Grenade Launcher with Rad/Stasis/Krak/Frag grenade options (+20 points).

----------------------------
ELITES
*VETERAN SQUAD
-Come with Bolter, BP, and CCW for free.
-For every 5 models, may take two Special Weapons or one Special Weapon and one Heavy Weapon.

*DW TERMINATORS
-Reduced to 175 points for baseline squad and +35 points for each additional model.

*DW KNIGHTS
-Mace of Absolution gains Rending USR, otherwise the same.
-Flail of the Unforgiven gains Rending USR, otherwise the same.
-Knight Master is now a +10 point upgrade and comes with Perfidious Relic for free.
-Reduced to 200 points for baseline squad and +40 points for each additional model.

*DREADNOUGHT/VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT
-Gain Rampage USR for free.
-Can upgrade to Mortis pattern for +20 points, granting Dread/Venerable Dread the option to use Skyfire each shooting phase, provided the Dreadnought did not move in the previous Movement phase.

*RW BLACK KNIGHTS
-Move to Elites choice.
-Base cost reduced to 120 points, +40 points per additional model.
-Huntmaster now a +10 point upgrade (he has 3A base and otherwise the same profile). Huntmaster may exchange his Corvus Hammer for any type of Power Weapon for +10 points.

*CHAPLAIN
-Moved to an Elites choice.
-Reduced costs to 70 points per model.

----------------------------
FAST ATTACK
*RW ATTACK SQUADRON
-Reduced to 70 points for base squad (Sergeant and two Bikers) and +23 points for each additional model.

*RW SUPPORT SQUADRON
-No change.

*DARKSHROUD
-Reduced to 70 points base, +10 points for Assault Cannon upgrade.
-Has AV11 all around and 3 HPs.

*ASSAULT SQUAD
-May take Rad grenades for +3 points per model and/or Stasis grenades for +2 points per model (function just like RW GL grenades, except they can only be used in the first round of a combat, i.e. can’t be used in the shooting phase).
-Up to two regular ASM may replace their CCW with a PW for +15 points.
-Up to two regular ASMs may replace their Bolt Pistol with either a Flamer (+5 points), Melta gun (+10 points), or a Plasma Pistol (+15 points).

*NEPHILIM FIGHTER
-Blacksword Missiles gain Armourbane, Shred, and AP2 vs Flyers, Skimmers, and Flying Monstrous Creatures.

*DARK TALON
-Gains PotMS Special Rule.
-Rift Cannon changed to use one of two profiles (choose which one each shooting phase): FOCUSED -- 18” S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, Blind or DISPERSED -- 24” S5 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast, Blind.

----------------------------
HEAVY SUPPORT
*DEVASTATORS
-Flak Missile upgrade changed to +5 points per ML.
-Heavy Bolter upgrade changed to +5 points each.

*PREDATOR
-Gains Wargear called “Enhanced Targeting Auspex” for free which enables the Predator to choose either the Shred USR or the Tank Hunter USR at the beginning of each game turn.

*WHIRLWIND
-No change.

*VINDICATOR
-No change.

*LAND RAIDER/LAND RAIDER CRUSADER/LAND RAIDER REDEEMER
-All three variants gain option to purchase upgrade called “Sacred Hull” for +20 points which reduced the effect of melta weapons to only rolling D6 + D3 for penetration rolls (instead of 2D6 for Penetration rolls) and changes the effect of all Lance type weapons to only treating the vehicles armor as AV13, vice AV12.

*LAND SPEEDER VENGEANCE
-Reduced to 110 points base, +10 points for Assault Cannon upgrade.
-Has AV11 all around and 3 HPs.
-Plasma Storm Battery may use use one of two profiles (choose which one each shooting phase): BURST -- 36” S7 AP2 Heavy 3, Gets Hot, Twin-Linked or CHARGED -- 36” S7 AP2 Heavy 1, Large Blast, Gets-Hot, Twin-Linked.

----------------------------
RELICS
*Foe Smiter – 24” S4 AP3 Assault 3, Master-Crafted
*Lion’s Roar – Combi-weapon with secondary profile 24" S7 AP2 Assault 1, Large Blast, Blind, Gets Hot!
*Mace of Redemption – S +3 AP3 Melee, Bane of the Traitor, Blind, Concussive, Furious Charge
*Monster Slayer of Caliban – Bearer takes a leadership test at the beginning of each assault phase. Sword profile varies with result:
--Test Failed – S User AP-
--Test Passed on a roll of 10 – S User AP3
--Test Passed on a roll of 8-9 – S +1 AP3
--Test Passed on a roll of 6-7 – S +1 AP2
--Test Passed on a roll of 4-5 – S +2 AP2
--Test Passed on a roll of 2-3 – S +2 AP2, Instant Death
*Shroud of Heroes – Bearer always has FNP (4+) and gains Stealth/Shrouded USRs if not attached to any unit or other ICs.
*Power Field Generator -- Techmarine only. Grants all models (friend or foe) within 3" a 4++ save (PFG no longer available as a Special Issue item, only as a Relic).
----------------------------
BANNERS
*DA Chapter Banner – No change.
*Company Standard – No change.
*Revered Standard – All models from the same detachment within 24” gain Crusader and Fearless USRs.
*Ravenwing Company Banner – No change.
*Deathwing Company Banner – No change.
*Standard of Retribution – All units from the same detachment within 18” have Counterattack USR.
*Standard of Fortitude -- All units from the same detachment within 12” have FNP(5+).
*Standard of Devastation -- All units from the same detachment within 6” have their Hurricane Bolters, TL Bolters, Bolter portion of Combi-Bolters, and Bolters turn into Salvo 2/4 weapons and their Heavy Bolters turned into Salvo 3/6 weapons.
----------------------------
WARLORD TRAITS
1 – Rapid Maneuver – WL and all members of his unit from the same detachment gain the Fleet USR.
2 – The Hunt – Gain D3+1 VPs if you slay the enemy Warlord with your Warlord or his unit.
3 – Courage of the Lion – WL has a 24” radius for rolling an extra dice and discarding the highest on Morale Tests for all units from the same detachment.
4 – For the Lion – WL and all members of his squad from the same detachment have Furious Charge USR.
5 – Brilliant Planning – While WL is on the board, you can chooses to modify Reserve rolls by +1/-1 for any unit from the same detachment.
6 – Hold at All Costs – WL and any members of his unit from the same detachment gain FNP if within 6” of an Objective.
----------------------------
UNIQUE DETACHMENTS
(1) - DEATHWING STRIKE FORCE
Required: 1 HQ, 2 Elites
Optional: +1 HQ, +4 Elites, +2 Troops, +2 Fast Attack, +2 Heavy Support, +1 Lord of War, +1 Fortification
Special Rules:
***Deathwing Commander – Warlord may re-roll results on the Warlord Traits table
***Wrath of the First Company – All models equipped with Terminator Armor from this detachment add +2 to their FNP rolls (or have FNP(5+), if they do not have access to FNP already) on a turn in which they arrive by Deep Strike.

(2) - RAVENWING STRIKE FORCE
Required: 1 HQ, 2 Fast Attack
Optional: +2 HQs, +3 Elites, +3 Troops, +4 Fast Attack, +3 Heavy Support, +1 Lord of War
Special Rules:
***Ravenwing Commander – Warlord may re-roll results on the Warlord Traits table.
***Relentless Pursuit – All models equipped with Space Marine Bikes from this detachment that are Outflanking may attempt to come in from Reserve starting turn 1 on a roll of 3+.

[Prot]

Honestly I won't be too critical but I personally feel most of the special characters are underpowered, and most of the units are over costed. 

 

That being said, somethings are absolutely a write off... Nephilim needs a big point drop, missiles should be the same as everyone elses. The weapon choices need to make sense, not be split up between roles. The special per-heresy Lion's engines need to be addressed as well. (can't even hover???) Even with your changes this is still too subservient to too many flyers.

 

Similar, but not as bad is that Dark Talon. Really hard to find uses for it. IDK about the bomb changes... something has to happen though, right now it's a giant bird dropping at best. Also the wording on the hover needs to be cleaned up/expanded upon.

 

Another example is that Vengeance... AV 11 please. And while I like the creative option you've put in there... still not sure I'd take it since Jink kills so many offensive units.

 

The Deathwing Knights could really use a touch. I don't know what, but they're fun as heck but fall short of hammer/shield. 

 

Sammael should confer a non snapfire Jink as a special rule putting Ravenwing -back- to where they were before 7th. 

 

Belial, that's a good start, but without an AP2 weapon using the SoS, I'd think he needs more than a wound (He's still easy to instakill).

 

Azrael. I definitely want him to retain the ability to pick any DA trait. He feels very lackluster himself in CC. He is the 'man' in the codex but certainly doesn't convey that on the field. I'd like to see a bigger army wide feature that at least mimics vanilla marines chapter traits. Also his retinue should definitely be special... Objective Secured maybe? Don't know.

 

I like the idea of the Chaplains though... but I'd add first turn zeal.

 

Like lots of the war gear...  But Lion's roar needs to be an all game thing or get rid of it... it's too many points for a one turn plasma canon. 

 

As a side note, one chapter trait I'd love to see is.... something to do with Ballistic Skill combined with being in a Fortification. These guys scream for a shooting boost, and I always seem to envision them blasting away from a Fortress Chapter Monestary type contraption... giving them a boost for being in a Fortificaiton would be a win/win for GW as it would sell more boxes, and bring back fortifications which are kind of lacking in 7th. I think that would be really fluffy, yet original, and cool

 

One other 'new'  thing without adding new models: (Oh how I have whined for this like a baby with a smelly diaper) A Unique Dreadnought!!! A Redemption Pattern Dreadnought. Doesn't have to be named, could be just an Elite or Heavy Choice, shoots a lot of stuff.  Blood Angels have the 'blender' dread, I want a shooty dread! 

 

Sorry... went off on a tangent there.

[Space Truckin]

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dark_Angels_/tgbrew_modifications_7th_Edition

 

Some good ideas on 7th codex rewrite on 4chan

 

A sample..

If a "Keeper of Relics" (i.e Interrogator Chaplain) is in the army: Add Volkite Calivers, Rotor Cannons and Grav-Guns to list of special weapons normally available to Squads.

This is perhaps taking a few liberties, but reasonably expands the Dark Angels armoury somewhat by adding "Relic" weapons from the time of the Horus Heresy which can only be allocated when bringing a Chaplain using the precedent set by Forgeworld for Relic Vehicles.

[aura_enchanted]

They won't touch veterans without giving us vet vanguard and sternguard which they won't do.

 

Its more likely that the veterans box gets an overhaul next codex, veterans gain jump packs as a wargear option but otherwise stay the same. Perhaps become able to take a land raider as a dedicated.

 

Land raiders and deathwing raiders will have their own separate listings meaning dwv shenanigans will now be exclusive to deathwing focused armies

 

The pfg is gonna become a relic exclusive to the techmarine. It's too abuseable as it is

 

Banner of retribution will get a buff, banner of fort a dev will stay the same.

 

I agree on the above loss of troops status but I believe that the two great companies will get unique force org charts that achieve the same end much like the great company formation the wolves have.

 

The land speeder vengeance should get a price drop and the neph and dt will get a buff or price drop as well. Lords know they need it.

[aura_enchanted]

Honestly I won't be too critical but I personally feel most of the special characters are underpowered, and most of the units are over costed.

 

That being said, somethings are absolutely a write off... Nephilim needs a big point drop, missiles should be the same as everyone elses. The weapon choices need to make sense, not be split up between roles. The special per-heresy Lion's engines need to be addressed as well. (can't even hover???) Even with your changes this is still too subservient to too many flyers.

 

Similar, but not as bad is that Dark Talon. Really hard to find uses for it. IDK about the bomb changes... something has to happen though, right now it's a giant bird dropping at best. Also the wording on the hover needs to be cleaned up/expanded upon.

 

Another example is that Vengeance... AV 11 please. And while I like the creative option you've put in there... still not sure I'd take it since Jink kills so many offensive units.

 

The Deathwing Knights could really use a touch. I don't know what, but they're fun as heck but fall short of hammer/shield.

 

Sammael should confer a non snapfire Jink as a special rule putting Ravenwing -back- to where they were before 7th.

 

Belial, that's a good start, but without an AP2 weapon using the SoS, I'd think he needs more than a wound (He's still easy to instakill).

 

Azrael. I definitely want him to retain the ability to pick any DA trait. He feels very lackluster himself in CC. He is the 'man' in the codex but certainly doesn't convey that on the field. I'd like to see a bigger army wide feature that at least mimics vanilla marines chapter traits. Also his retinue should definitely be special... Objective Secured maybe? Don't know.

 

I like the idea of the Chaplains though... but I'd add first turn zeal.

 

Like lots of the war gear... But Lion's roar needs to be an all game thing or get rid of it... it's too many points for a one turn plasma canon.

 

As a side note, one chapter trait I'd love to see is.... something to do with Ballistic Skill combined with being in a Fortification. These guys scream for a shooting boost, and I always seem to envision them blasting away from a Fortress Chapter Monestary type contraption... giving them a boost for being in a Fortificaiton would be a win/win for GW as it would sell more boxes, and bring back fortifications which are kind of lacking in 7th. I think that would be really fluffy, yet original, and cool

 

One other 'new' thing without adding new models: (Oh how I have whined for this like a baby with a smelly diaper) A Unique Dreadnought!!! A Redemption Pattern Dreadnought. Doesn't have to be named, could be just an Elite or Heavy Choice, shoots a lot of stuff. Blood Angels have the 'blender' dread, I want a shooty dread!

 

Sorry... went off on a tangent there.

You could take the lsv and up the range on the storm battery to 48" from 18". That's probably the best thing you could do. Now it's 30" further back. Which would do wonders for the psb and it's lsv mounting.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Don't forget that Ezekiel's sword "Traitor's bane" should gain "bane of the traitor" rule.

 

I think your aproach to a new codex is quite sound. Somethings here and there were a tad too excessive (like giving special rules to some plain jane units we share with other codexes that shouldn't perform better or worde than them). But I do get a good feeling from your revision, it's very sensible and shows concern to have a balanced codex, not OP by any means.

 

I think our present codex has a solid base to be built upon from the future. I just hope next writer sees that and build accordingly... He just has to cross the tee's and dot the i's for the most part.

[Master Sheol]

This are some ideas i wrote some time ago For a DA codex 6.5

 

HQ

 

Azrael - Supreme Master of the Unforgiven: Azrael turn to troops one selected squad type from the following: Company veterans, Ravenwing Attack Squadron, Deathwing terminator squad.

Command Squad: Azrael can have a Deathwing command Squad or a Command Squad (they get the Inner Circle rule for free).

 

Sammael - If Sammael is on Sabreclaw he can join Ravenwing Support Squadrons or Ravenwing Vengeance Squadrons like he was an Indipendent Character.

 

Belial - Belial can swap the Sword of Silence and storm bolter for a Storm shield and a master crafted thunder hammer or a pair of master crafted lightning claws for free.

 

Ezekiel - Sword S+1, warlord trait " "Courage of the Lion"

 

Asmodai - master crafted crozius with bane of the traitor, gives fearless to all DA units within 6", digital weapons, warlord trait "hold at all cost"

 

Master - can be upgraded to Grand Master (+25 points +1W +1A). A Grand Master can take a RW bike. A Master/Grand Master in terminator armour can take items from the terminator shooting weapons and/or from the terminator melee weapons. Grand Master in terminator armour unlocks Deathwing terminators squads as troops, on Ravenwing bike unlocks Ravenwing attack squadrons as troops.

 

Librarian - +25 points for mastery level 2. A librarian in terminator armour can take items from the terminator shooting weapons.

 

Chaplain/Interrogator Chaplain - can take a Ravenwing bike. A chaplain in terminator armour can take items from the terminator shooting weapons.

 

Command squad - can take storm shield (+10 points per model). Only a command squad took by a Grand master (or Azrael) can take the Chapter Standard.

 

Ravenwing command squad - 35 points per model. Only a command squad took by a Grand master (or Sammael) can take the Chapter Standard.

 

Deathwing command squad - 40 points per model. Only a command squad took by a Grand master (or Belial or Azrael) can take the Chapter Standard.

 

Ravenwing bike: +30 points. plasma talon and teleport homer. It grants the USR scout, hit and run, skilled rider.

 

Blade of Caliban - S+1 AP3 Specialistic weapon

 

Terminators shooting weapons -

The model can swap his stormbolter with: combiweapon (plasma, melta, flamer) +6 points

 

Terminator melee weapons -

The model can swap his stormbolter and/or power weapon with one of the following:

Lightning claw +5 points

Storm shield +10 points

Thunder hammer +15 points.

 

ELITE

 

Black knight - 35 points per model.

 

Deathwing Knights - 43 points per model. Mace S+2 AP3. Champion's mace S+2 AP3 Shred. Smite mode S+4 AP2 ove use only (Champion can yse Smite Too).

 

Deathwing terminator squad - 40 points per model. special rules: combat squads

 

Company Veterans - jump pack +5 points per model (no heavy weapons allowed, all squad must take it)

 

TROOPS

 

Scouts - 11 points per model, sniper rifle +1 point per model

 

FAST ATTACK

 

Ravenwing attack squadron - 24 points per model. You can keep the attack bike attached to the squadron or field it alone but if you combat squad the squadron the attack bike always goes alone. The attached LS is always alone.

 

Ravenwing Destroyer squadron - 1/5 attack bikes. Options: Plasma cannon +10 points per model.

 

Dark Shroud - armour 11/11/10

 

Dark Talon - Flyer/Skimmer, 130 points. Strafing Run. rift cannon S6 AP5 blast 3" Istant Death

 

Nephilim - 150 points, missiles range48" S7 AP2 Missile lock.

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Land Raider Phobos - assault grenade launcher +10 points

 

Land raider redeemer - 240 points

 

Ravenwing Vengeance squadron - 1/3 LSV 100 points per model, armour 11/11/10 twin linked plasma battery.

 

[Prot]

You guys are really okay with dropping unique troops from special HQ's? I'm not.... that means you'd give White Scars that (very cheap) option, but remove it from DA? I am not sure I understand... .why? It's not abusive, it's restricted to special characters (a generic HQ in the DA codex can't do this.) I honestly don't get it.

 

I'm not sure how abusive the PFG is.... it does have a drawback and it seems its most restrictive interpretation has it only working on the vehicle it is in (meaning you have to give it to a dude on a bike in multi LR lists). I've tried it a handful of times and have been annoyed at it's abililty to help the opponent too... I personally see it as a Landraider list item, and it has a 'character tax' on top of it.

 

Long story short aside from the 3-4 units I think were just written poorly as a result of having one of the earliest codexes of 7th, I think most of our issues are in the points costing. I agree most of the units give us a good/fun/unique foundation.

[Master Avoghai]

You guys are really okay with dropping unique troops from special HQ's? I'm not.... that means you'd give White Scars that (very cheap) option, but remove it from DA? I am not sure I understand... .why? It's not abusive, it's restricted to special characters (a generic HQ in the DA codex can't do this.) I honestly don't get it.

 

It´s a common manner of thinking those days.

 

Long story short it's Since GW removed the troops nobz bikers and the troops thunder wolves from the last codex, they will remove the troops termi and the troops bikes from our"

 

I also don't think it's a good way of thinking. It's normal for everybody that DA have troops termis. On the opposite why in the hell GW made troops bike nobz?

They removed it because bikes nobz don't represent a typical feature of any army... As well as thunder wolves and added nothing to the codex except resulting more FW nobz sales than GW boyz sales.

[aura_enchanted]

You guys are really okay with dropping unique troops from special HQ's? I'm not.... that means you'd give White Scars that (very cheap) option, but remove it from DA? I am not sure I understand... .why? It's not abusive, it's restricted to special characters (a generic HQ in the DA codex can't do this.) I honestly don't get it.

 

I'm not sure how abusive the PFG is.... it does have a drawback and it seems its most restrictive interpretation has it only working on the vehicle it is in (meaning you have to give it to a dude on a bike in multi LR lists). I've tried it a handful of times and have been annoyed at it's abililty to help the opponent too... I personally see it as a Landraider list item, and it has a 'character tax' on top of it.

 

Long story short aside from the 3-4 units I think were just written poorly as a result of having one of the earliest codexes of 7th, I think most of our issues are in the points costing. I agree most of the units give us a good/fun/unique foundation.

the pfg starts to get silly once our new codecies roll in and we get lords or war.

 

A warhound with a 4+ invul granted to him by a pfg jump chaplain tucked behind his leg that blocks los is a huge threat. Same goes for a baneblade pattern vehicle.

 

Superheavies and titans don't have saves for a reason it would get bloody comical.

 

And if gw has plans to expand the knights codex with fw models things are going to get very silly very quickly.

 

 

You can also use it to grant a structure an invul save like say fortress of redemption. That's fair right? A fortress big enough to hide thrity devestators inside with a 4++ Or a bastion or a firestorm, or a wall of martyrs

 

The pfg will probably become a relic or special issue wargear exclusive to the techmarine. That way it stays on a squishy platform but has solid applications still. The day low made it to the normal foc the pfg's fate was sealed.

 

And do not fret the white scars will lose this as well. They aren't yet finished with the codecies and when the time for codex vanillabros gets its new paint job theirs goin to be smurfs, bt's, iron hands, imperial fists frothing with rage.

 

Their first change right off the bat? Not being able to take a generic chapter master anymore if your one of the founder chapters or bt's. No more dual chapter master shenanigans will send all kinds of cuss words to the interwebz.

 

The second thing to go will be a be benefits to white scars bikes and making x troops by stuffing an hq onto a bike or a jump pack. I'm thinking white scars will lose the ability to wield grav weapons on their bikers or pay a premium price for them. And it will be bike does nothing, jump pack designates your attached squad as obj sec.

 

I also think their going to tweak centurions and sternguard to make veterans and vanguards more appealing as well as melee centurions.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Sorry aura_enchanted but I have to disagree. Orks have equivalent force fields on vehicles and characters, they can actually have 6 of them in the army if they so choose.

And soon there will be void shield generators that will do the same for everyones building and tanks. So, no, our PFG is not overpowered, comes with a character tax like Prot said and even the wildest shenanigans of hiding the PFG on a fortress with devastators is not enough to win games... while everyone is confy hidden on a building the eney just caps objectives.

[Prot]

Sorry aura_enchanted but I have to disagree. Orks have equivalent force fields on vehicles and characters, they can actually have 6 of them in the army if they so choose.

And soon there will be void shield generators that will do the same for everyones building and tanks. So, no, our PFG is not overpowered, comes with a character tax like Prot said and even the wildest shenanigans of hiding the PFG on a fortress with devastators is not enough to win games... while everyone is confy hidden on a building the eney just caps objectives.

 

Plus simple wording (IE just to bring the codex inline with 7th) would fix any potential goofy stuff.

[Bryan Blaire]

Yes, the "X Unit as Troops" mechanic is going away and being replaced by "Use this formation to represent an army based on X idea" (such as Logan's Wolf Guard formation). I'm actually really pleased by the idea, but I think formations would be even better if they were less faction specific, for instance, you could have a "Siege Breakers" formation where it said "must use 1 HQ, 2 Fast Attack, 1 Troops - HQ must be able to move >6" per round (this needing a bike, jump pack of some kind, chariot, etc) and Troops must purchase and be deployed starting in a transport" and then it lays out that you can have X additional Fast Attack, Troops, HQ, Elite and Heavy Support with any additional stipulations, such as "Must Deep Strike if able to do so, otherwise must be deployed in a transport", etc. Instead of the Command Bonus (or whatever it's called) being Objective Secured, they could get bonus versus enemy in cover, ability to seize an objective automatically that isn't in cover, etc.

 

Also, by removing the "Makes X Unit Troops" concept from the named character, it could allow the designers to focus more on the character and designing rules that actually reflect his/her personality, rather than their utility to make something Troops.

[Master Avoghai]

The fact that unjustified troops switch were removed in only 2 codex/18 doesn't mean it will become a general rules.

 

Though I agree that it shouldn't be libked to a special character.

[MadMek83]

Azrael Should come with his own Land Raider Prrometehus: Angelis Imperator... Just to balance of Wolves Santa in Sleigh...

[[TA]Typher]

I like some of these ideas.

 

The relics and formations in peticular. The monster slaying sword might actually be useful.

 

Belial in a unit of knights using the wall of shields(+1T), a stormshield, a built in +5 FNP (or 3+ withthe BOF close), and an extra wound would be crazy good.

 

Add invisibility and you'd have the toughest spacemarine in the game.

[Prot]

Azrael Should come with his own Land Raider Prrometehus: Angelis Imperator... Just to balance of Wolves Santa in Sleigh...

 

Oh man that's funny. I like it... except to be fair we should have Azrael floated aloft in a pair of giant angels' wings. :)

[aura_enchanted]

 

 

Azrael Should come with his own Land Raider Prrometehus: Angelis Imperator... Just to balance of Wolves Santa in Sleigh...

Oh man that's funny. I like it... except to be fair we should have Azrael floated aloft in a pair of giant angels' wings. :)

I think a more likely option will be sammael moving to Lord if war and sabeleye getting its own model. The lore and statline are already there it just needs a plastic kit.

[Master Sheol]

About Azrael i was thinking...

If he could have a IC command squad (regular command squad with Artificers Armours and IC special rule) or a DWCS... If he takes a DWCS he Cain join it and come down in DWA... Maybe the personal teleporter module could be an upgrade +10 points available for Azrael only...

 

And GW could make a 6 models box with Azrael and his command squad (similar to CoVet box with more details on models and CS parts)...

[Master Avoghai]

Then why not simply make an Azzie terminator model with the option to play him either iin TDA or in artificer Armour?

 

Funny that the chapter with the most TDA don't manage to find one free for its supreme grand master...

[aura_enchanted]

Then why not simply make an Azzie terminator model with the option to play him either iin TDA or in artificer Armour?

 

Funny that the chapter with the most TDA don't manage to find one free for its supreme grand master...

a more logical explanation is that he chooses not to wear it believing his artificers is superior for whatever reason.

 

It is you that wants azzy as a terminator not azreal. And you sir are not above our supreme grandmaster

[Master Avoghai]

 

Then why not simply make an Azzie terminator model with the option to play him either iin TDA or in artificer Armour?

 

Funny that the chapter with the most TDA don't manage to find one free for its supreme grand master...

a more logical explanation is that he chooses not to wear it believing his artificers is superior for whatever reason.

 

It is you that wants azzy as a terminator not azreal. And you sir are not above our supreme grandmaster

I'm above him on the tabletop :D

 

I just have trouble imagining that a former Deathwing Grand Master never wear a TDA anymore...

[aura_enchanted]

 

 

Then why not simply make an Azzie terminator model with the option to play him either iin TDA or in artificer Armour?

 

Funny that the chapter with the most TDA don't manage to find one free for its supreme grand master...

a more logical explanation is that he chooses not to wear it believing his artificers is superior for whatever reason.

 

It is you that wants azzy as a terminator not azreal. And you sir are not above our supreme grandmaster

I'm above him on the tabletop :D

 

I just have trouble imagining that a former Deathwing Grand Master never wear a TDA anymore...

All company masters at one point were a deathwing; even sammael (hence why they all have inner circle usr). Yet never once dO you see sammy in tda. It would make no sense for the master of the ravenwing to be in tda as the ravenwing live for speed and maneuverability.

 

Perhaps azreal simply views the speed and maneuverability as an asset in duels and close combat. As well as its regal appearance befitting a chapter master unlike the grim ugly look of deathwing tda.

 

The fact that asmodai and zeke don't have tda options is a little off I'll give u that but azreal gets a pass from me. He has reason, he's a chapter master he does as he Damn well pleases.

 

Asmodai is simply an above average interrogator chaplain. He should have tda options. And Ezekiel has a weak excuse at best. In that he is the keeper of the keys to the rock and it would be difficult unlocking doors all over the rock in tda while carrying a book, sword, pistol, and doing so on a tight schedule.

 

His excuse however is weak as if he took to the battlefield such points are rendered a side issue.

 

I think it's weird that belial doesn't have a power/ artificers armor options tho. That I cannot explain one bit. The drunken mutt njal has both options. What's his excuse?

[Master Avoghai]

But I'm not saying anything else : of course he does what he wants but that's exactly the case...

 

He may change his wargear since as a SGM he has more choices than a lambda marine.

 

Hence he should have the option.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

People, this is going a bit off topic. Wishlisting for different armour for characters is fine, if you want to discuss why those options are not available, please open a different topic for that.