Allies Are A Knight's Best Friend: How To BFF In 7th edition

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Before considering how to...what's the phrase, 'build a balanced list' (cries of horror from GW), you must first consider what makes Knights special, and what they already do quite well. Don't worry, it's a short list ;)

 

Knight advantages:

- Everyone is a psyker (WC for dayz!1!!!)

- Cheaper Terminator Troops (take that Deathwing!...I mean you get plasma cannons and storm shields...whatever...)

- A HQ who beats face, has psychic powers outside of Santic, and he's still only around 200pts (Grandmaster)

- A HQ who is the most absurd WC and support power battery in the game (Librarian)

- Never having to worry about being tarpitted or overwhelmed by superior infantry numbers (Purifiers)

- Fearless melee specialists who still have guns, aren't over 30ppm (usually), and fit inside a Raven at full strength (Purifiers)

- WC2, even in combat squads (Purifiers)

- A Flyer that kills other Fliers, has an Assault ramp, and can carry any of our infantry (Raven)

- Supreme mobility in both infantry (Interceptor) and Monstrous Creature form (Dreadknight)

- The scariest ground MC in the game (Dreadknight) 

- Who still has excellent guns for doing fire support when he isn't in melee (Dreadknight)

- Nemesis Strikeforce (aka two Troops min is for chumps, also Run+Shoot after Deepstriking Turn 1 because reasons)

 

Knight disadvantages:

- Everyone is a psyker (Culexus...:( )

- Army of expensive Marines who die like normal Marines...when Riptides and Heldrakes exist

- Low model count

- Distinct lack of anti-tank at range, besides the Raven

- Salvo psycannons, thus making them irrelevant besides on TDA or on the Dreadknight

- Deepstrike reliant, and thus Reserves reliant

 

 

Now obviously, every other army in 40k is a potential Ally (I guess the end times are here, Come the Apocalypse Allies are now legal in normal 40k). However, this guide will focus on the key Imperial Allies for Knights. We don't discuss filthy xenos or traitors here ;) . 

 

His Imperial Majesty's Holy Inquisition: 

 

Malleus Inquisitor: He can take TDA+hammer+psycannon (yay!), Mastery 1 in either Divination or Telepathy (yay!), and still take servo-skulls (yay!). Costs the same as a basic Strike squad in that form, which is to say he's a better investment in every measurable way (see the Primer for why). Remember, he gets 'Prescience' or 'Psychic Shriek' for free, plus his random power. Very cost-effective support HQ, and fits in with every squad in our army. Another nemesis hammer and Relentless psycannon is also very welcome. 

 

Henchmen: We need to shore up our ground presence, especially with the Nemesis Strikeforce. Henchmen offer 7pt storm bolters, 20pt plasma cannons, 4pt meatshields, 10pt Psykers with either 'Telepathy' or 'Divination' etc. They're much better value than Scions or IG Veterans, and they're completely customisable (you can build them any way you want, and they'll still be very cheap). They also make perfect candidates to cower behind an Aegis Line and man the Comms Array ensuring your Nemesis Strikeforce doesn't auto-lose Turn 1 to a bunch of bad Reserve rolls. 

 

Imperial Knight-Titans:

 

Paladin: Two battle cannon shots, plus a Destroyer melee walker who is hard to kill? Very synergistic, as a Knight-Titan is a threat the enemy cannot ignore and will draw significant firepower and resources off your precious Knight infantry. It's also a good alternative to man the Comms Array, as its unlikely to die Turn 1. 

 

Errant: A large blast melta cannon, and still a Destroyer melee walker that is hard to kill. More aggressive, and so riskier, but you cannot deny its threat projection. 

 

Gerantius: 500pts is a lot. That's an entire Terminator squad with all the trimmings, plus spare change. However, he's even more stupid tough (3+ invul...wow), and can Run+Shoot, re-roll bad Stomps...big call here. He is an Errant pattern don't forget, so he wants to get up close and rip stuff up. 

 

Note: I really feel Knight-Titan Allies belong in larger games. In smaller games it simply cuts too deep into your points total, when you're already behind curve in terms of model count. No denying they are annoying as hell to get rid of (multiple melta hits, and even then its chancy), but if they do die its a big chunk of points gone. Just really think about it, we already suffer from being an expensive, small force. 

 

Inferior Gene-Seed:

 

Terminator Librarian: Cheap, has access to 'Biomancy' instead of 'Divination' (still has 'Telepathy' as well). The Dark Angel version of this guy gets back 'Divination' access, but also can bring a Power Field Generator, which interacts very nicely with 'Sanctuary' on Stern and Dreadknights. 

 

Stormhammers: Still the best assault unit in the game. They make a great meatshield for Draigo shenanigans, and Stern can make them broken as hell with 'Sanctuary' on them. They can also go inside our Ravens now, which is very cool. 

 

Bikers: Mobile, reasonably tough, and bring either plasma or melta, plus an Attack Bike with a multi-melta. Expensive though, and need a Biker Captain to unlock, so...eh

 

Devastator Centurions: Grav-Centurions like Draigo 'Gating' them up the field quickly, las+missile Centurions like sitting in an Aegis Line manning the Comms Array and turning on Skyfire that one turn (because you took Red Hunters you smart person). 

 

Hammer of the Emperor:

 

Primaris Psykers; Cheaper than Inquisitors, although they can't armour up, get a good gun or Deepstrike. They are very cheap for Mastery 2 though. 

 

Company Command: 4x BS4 plasma or meltaguns, plus orders to make any other meats...I mean loyal allied AM units perform better. Chimera to keep them alive slightly longer. 

 

Infantry squads: Cheap, special and heavy weapon per squad, powerfist Sarges on the cheap, in blobs they're annoying to remove and still very cost-effective. Combining should be done when and if needed, otherwise leave them as multiple units so you can dilute enemy firepower. The Platoon Command brings the same plasma/melta spam, but only at BS3. If you need to bulk up your ground presence, Infantry platoons do the job very well. 

 

Russes: The variants are very cheap now, although the basic 'large krak blast' version does a lot of things very well for Knights. AV14 is also very nice with the new 7th damage tables, its hard to kill these at range, although melta or flanking units are still an issue. Pask is sexy with a Punisher or Exterminator variant, although his cost quickly spirals (note that this moves the Russ squadron to HQ instead of Heavy). 

 

 

This is far from a comprehensive list of possible Ally units, but those examples should give you a general idea of what options are available. In general, you should aim for your Allied contingent to be no more than 1/3rd of your army. Any more, and you may as well Ally Knights instead. 

 

Now over to you guys. Which Allies do you find most useful? Any key units you'd like to highlight, or combos you enjoy?

[HiveFleetKelari]

I'm a fan of Allied SM Scouts. Cheap, mobile (in a Land Speeder Storm) and you have infiltrating/scouting teleport homers! Put a sniper squad behind an ADL with Comms Array for re-rolling reserves.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Probably not nearly cheesy enough to count as competitive in some meta but I quite like the idea of using Ravenwing.

 

Azrael is expensive but he can pick his warlord trait for manipulating reserves so he saves you points on Aegis + comms relay. Put him in a Drop Pod with a Command Squad and add Stern. Now add the apothecary, Storm Shields and combi-plasma/melta to taste and you have a nice durable (2++/FNP) alpha-striking unit.

 

The ravenwing bikers come with Teleport homers as standard so if you don't fancy null deploying you can precision strike your teminators into just the right spots. The are nearly as good as White Scars bikers in their own right.

 

Ravenwing black knights deserve a special mention for that grenade launcher, now that Halberds don't let GK hit first they might need a little help sometimes.

 

They do not help with anti-air at all but otherwise they fit pretty well. This combo can null deploy if you want and the unit that is guaranteed to come down is both hard-hitting and hard to kill - not that 2+ reserve rolls should really be a big problem. In a big enough points game I would be adding a biker librarian with the PFG for excellent invun saves on my NDK from a unit that can actually keep up with them.

[casb1965]

Before considering how to...what's the phrase, 'build a balanced list' (cries of horror from GW), you must first consider what makes Knights special, and what they already do quite well. Don't worry, it's a short list

His Imperial Majesty's Holy Inquisition:

Malleus Inquisitor: He can take TDA+hammer+psycannon (yay!), Mastery 1 in either Divination or Telepathy (yay!), and still take servo-skulls (yay!). Costs the same as a basic Strike squad in that form, which is to say he's a better investment in every measurable way (see the Primer for why). Remember, he gets 'Prescience' or 'Psychic Shriek' for free, plus his random power. Very cost-effective support HQ, and fits in with every squad in our army. Another nemesis hammer and Relentless psycannon is also very welcome.

Henchmen: We need to shore up our ground presence, especially with the Nemesis Strikeforce. Henchmen offer 7pt storm bolters, 20pt plasma cannons, 4pt meatshields, 10pt Psykers with either 'Telepathy' or 'Divination' etc. They're much better value than Scions or IG Veterans, and they're completely customisable (you can build them any way you want, and they'll still be very cheap). They also make perfect candidates to cower behind an Aegis Line and man the Comms Array ensuring your Nemesis Strikeforce doesn't auto-lose Turn 1 to a bunch of bad Reserve rolls.

Looking at the Inq. Codex and can't see where a Malleus Inquisitor gets Prescience for free, what am i missing?

[Rurik the blessed]

Before considering how to...what's the phrase, 'build a balanced list' (cries of horror from GW), you must first consider what makes Knights special, and what they already do quite well. Don't worry, it's a short list

His Imperial Majesty's Holy Inquisition:

Malleus Inquisitor: He can take TDA+hammer+psycannon (yay!), Mastery 1 in either Divination or Telepathy (yay!), and still take servo-skulls (yay!). Costs the same as a basic Strike squad in that form, which is to say he's a better investment in every measurable way (see the Primer for why). Remember, he gets 'Prescience' or 'Psychic Shriek' for free, plus his random power. Very cost-effective support HQ, and fits in with every squad in our army. Another nemesis hammer and Relentless psycannon is also very welcome.

Henchmen: We need to shore up our ground presence, especially with the Nemesis Strikeforce. Henchmen offer 7pt storm bolters, 20pt plasma cannons, 4pt meatshields, 10pt Psykers with either 'Telepathy' or 'Divination' etc. They're much better value than Scions or IG Veterans, and they're completely customisable (you can build them any way you want, and they'll still be very cheap). They also make perfect candidates to cower behind an Aegis Line and man the Comms Array ensuring your Nemesis Strikeforce doesn't auto-lose Turn 1 to a bunch of bad Reserve rolls.

Looking at the Inq. Codex and can't see where a Malleus Inquisitor gets Prescience for free, what am i missing?

Must be a joke....

Inquisitors can be upgraded to Psyker ML1, they can choose to roll on divination, telepathy, pyromancy, telekinesis...

so if you choose divination, you can roll a power... no mather what you get, you get the primaris for free...

note

"if a Psyker has chosen all of his powers from the same

psychic discipline to gain Psychic Focus, he will already know that discipline’s

primaris power and so cannot substitute any of his randomly generated

powers."

[IndigoJack]

I think he was confused because the upgrade to ML1 isn't free, you have to buy it, then you get a roll on the table + primaris

[TheDarkOne]

Just going to add to your list of useful alliances, space wolves, for the simple reason they allow us to ally in a fast attack drop pod, for 2 combat suqads of purifiers to deepstrike auto turn one. and thunderwolves. longfangs are ok too...

 

when the new SM codex comes out, they'll probably have fast attack drop pods that can carry 12, and that codex has centurions... I'm looking forward to that!

[Shadrach03]

Will this become a sticky to go along with the primer?  With the current state of our book it could become a pretty important thread.

 

I'd also like to add that Azrael adds his 4++ to the unit he joins, will chew through MEQ units and brings a mc combi plasma with blind.  On the other hand he lacks deep strike and is fairly hefty tax for bike troops which is offset somewhat by getting rid of the need for tacs or scouts.  He lacks deepstrike so you'll have to scout him forward to join some terminators later in the game or he could add some more ap3 melee and ap2 shooting to a combat squad of purifiers in a raven while making them more durable.  

 

One such idea I had was 10 purifiers combat squaded with 2 psycannons (maybe 4 if it plays well) in a rhino in the backfield generating charges and holding down an objective or comms while Azrael leads the 5 man melee squad out of a raven to cleansing flame and generally smash faces.  Not that hammerhand is better for instagibbing than force but with it up he also goes to S8 which will turn most characters into a fine pink mist.

[Quozzo]

Just going to add to your list of useful alliances, space wolves, for the simple reason they allow us to ally in a fast attack drop pod, for 2 combat suqads of purifiers to deepstrike auto turn one. and thunderwolves. longfangs are ok too...

 

when the new SM codex comes out, they'll probably have fast attack drop pods that can carry 12, and that codex has centurions... I'm looking forward to that!

There's no limit to the number of allied detachments you have. Just take SW and SM for deep striking cents, although it will probably be cheaper buying multiple librarians and hoping to roll GoI.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'm a fan of Allied SM Scouts. Cheap, mobile (in a Land Speeder Storm) and you have infiltrating/scouting teleport homers! Put a sniper squad behind an ADL with Comms Array for re-rolling reserves.

 

Eh, I can already put teleport homers in enemy lines with Interceptors. Also, the Storm is absurdly easy to kill and harder to hide. 

 

Probably not nearly cheesy enough to count as competitive in some meta but I quite like the idea of using Ravenwing.

 

 

Yeah that is something I'll add to the OP. They all come with teleport homers, and you can spread them out to get a large landing zone happening. 

 

I think he was confused because the upgrade to ML1 isn't free, you have to buy it, then you get a roll on the table + primaris 

 

 

Well yeah obviously. What I meant was, you get the Primaris as well as your random power. 

Just going to add to your list of useful alliances, space wolves, for the simple reason they allow us to ally in a fast attack drop pod, for 2 combat suqads of purifiers to deepstrike auto turn one. and thunderwolves. longfangs are ok too...

When the new SM codex comes out, they'll probably have fast attack drop pods that can carry 12, and that codex has centurions... I'm looking forward to that!

 

Agreed about Space Wolves, they have some cool tricks, plus those Drop Pods. I wanna give Red Hunters a go first though, Centurions are pretty hot (Thunderwolves are just more melee, and we already do melee extremely well). 

 

Will this become a sticky to go along with the primer?  With the current state of our book it could become a pretty important thread.

 

 

Done and done :)

One such idea I had was 10 purifiers combat squaded with 2 psycannons (maybe 4 if it plays well) in a rhino in the backfield generating charges and holding down an objective or comms while Azrael leads the 5 man melee squad out of a raven to cleansing flame and generally smash faces.  Not that hammerhand is better for instagibbing than force but with it up he also goes to S8 which will turn most characters into a fine pink mist.

 

Nah, Salvo rules are incredibly lame. Raven is a better choice for delivery, you can still combat squad to double-cast 'Cleansing Flame' and multi-charge things. 

[Happy-inquisitor]

One more thought on DA: if as is pretty common round here Forgeworld is OK then the storm eagle is the tranport your purifiers really deserve. Add in a techmarine with the PFG and you have a flyer that will fly through all but the most obscene amounts of anti-air to deliver its load. It's also not a bad gunship.

 

Plenty of room inside to add as many IC as you feel are needed to smash stuff on arrival.

 

DA can also bring Mortis dreads for anti-air but the storm eagle is so much more fun.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Storm Eagles are nice, but they are FW and thus like Contemptors or other such things (Caestus etc), they fall outside the conventional game. IIRC Storm Eagles are also quite expensive, more than Ravens. I'd probably just prefer to take a Raven, does the same job and less arguments with opponents about legality. 

[Happy-inquisitor]

Would it be worth having a separate thread for forgeworld-permitted.

 

I'm no expert but looking for tournaments for my son local to us in the UK they were either comped or forgeworld was allowed. Perhaps the warhammer world policies have an influence?

[Malus Trux]

Don't forget the other Chamber Militant of the Inquisition, the Adepta Sororitas.

 

The Saint can add H&R to a squad while Uriah has a 12" bubble of Fearless & Counter-attack and even has an AP4 stormbolter boomstick.

 

Dominions make excellent companions to shunting Interceptors and NDKs. The girls murder vehicles, their transport can target another unit (what target depends on the transport), Interceptors incinerate troops & the NDKs kills whatever it wants!

 

Their heavy support slots give good long range support. Exorcists make excellent light/medium vehicle killers while for a 100 points you can have 4 heavy bolters that can rend once or 122 for a chance to rend twice. A nearby divination librarian with the relic bolter wouldn't be amiss. Just don't have him join the girls when they attempt their act of faith.

 

On the Marine front, like the Dominions, scouting units also make good bash buddies. Raven Guard, Raptors, Kor'sarro Scars & the already mentioned Ravenwing all get scout & all can have teleport homers.

[Gentlemanloser]

(tongue in check)

Sure, don't sticky my thread, becuase 'we have enough stickies' already.

Then go and sticky your own thread!

(Heh, I made a thread similar to this a while ago, but it didn't really take off!)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295838-tricks-of-the-imperium/

[Shadrach03]

Dark angels also have a couple decent relics like a +3S ap3 mace with blind and concussive or a combi plasma where the plasma part is unlimited use small blast and it's assault I believe.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Dark angels also have a couple decent relics like a +3S ap3 mace with blind and concussive or a combi plasma where the plasma part is unlimited use small blast and it's assault I believe.

Pretty sure they just made a mistake on that combi plasma but as DA are not in need of nerf I think they let it stand. In lots of ways ravenwing can bring fast moving plasma/melta that GK now do not have.

[tomsev]

Might try a Bf ravenwing w/ a NSF... Could be fun...

[Shadrach03]

 

Dark angels also have a couple decent relics like a +3S ap3 mace with blind and concussive or a combi plasma where the plasma part is unlimited use small blast and it's assault I believe.

Pretty sure they just made a mistake on that combi plasma but as DA are not in need of nerf I think they let it stand. In lots of ways ravenwing can bring fast moving plasma/melta that GK now do not have.

 

I would agree if they had bothered to correct it through a faq but since they haven't yet I'll play it how it is written. 

 

Back on topic of alliances I think that if we are going to validate the use of forgeworld chapter tactics via red hunters then models with approved rules should be discussed as well.  Legitimacy comes down to a case by case basis for the local gaming community or tournaments so that shouldn't limit us from discussing them here.

[Raktra]

My entire post was an accident and now won't go away D:

[Shadrach03]

How about the vindicare in a bunker with comms. It should keep him out of hand way while letting him take out some hard targets. And if they are directing fire his way your knights won't have to worry about so much shooting.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Would it be worth having a separate thread for forgeworld-permitted.

I'm no expert but looking for tournaments for my son local to us in the UK they were either comped or forgeworld was allowed. Perhaps the warhammer world policies have an influence?

Not really. If your tourney doesn't allow Forge World, just adjust your Allies accordingly.

The Saint can add H&R to a squad while Uriah has a 12" bubble of Fearless & Counter-attack and even has an AP4 stormbolter boomstick.

Meanwhile, Riptides evapourate my army Turn 1. How exactly does Uriah help there?

Dominions make excellent companions to shunting Interceptors and NDKs. The girls murder vehicles, their transport can target another unit (what target depends on the transport), Interceptors incinerate troops & the NDKs kills whatever it wants!

>AV11

>T3

Considering my Interceptors are going on the shelf due to how easily they get removed (and my DK's are usually on 2 wounds come Turn 2), I don't rate the chances of Dominons, Fast transport or no. The reason Fire Dragons are still viable is because of their transport, if they were saddled with Rhino-chassis instead of Serpents, I'd say the same thing about them (melta is awesome, but dying before getting in range is not).

Their heavy support slots give good long range support. Exorcists make excellent light/medium vehicle killers while for a 100 points you can have 4 heavy bolters that can rend once or 122 for a chance to rend twice. A nearby divination librarian with the relic bolter wouldn't be amiss. Just don't have him join the girls when they attempt their act of faith.

Heavy bolters from Retributors do nothing to the problem units Allies are meant to counter. Also, they're even easier to remove than Knights.

Exorcists are solid, but they'll be the only ground armour, and thus easily focused. Their gun is also very random, which is not helpful.

Sure, don't sticky my thread, becuase 'we have enough stickies' already.

Then go and sticky your own thread!

(Heh, I made a thread similar to this a while ago, but it didn't really take off!)

http://www.bolterand...f-the-imperium/

Perks of being a mod but in all seriousness, this thread is addressing the biggest issue facing our book. We're so incredibly Ally dependent now, its absurd. I've tried writing good Knight lists, and they just don't have much power.

Pretty sure they just made a mistake on that combi plasma but as DA are not in need of nerf I think they let it stand. In lots of ways ravenwing can bring fast moving plasma/melta that GK now do not have.

Ravening are sweet, they're just quite pricey, and we already have cost issues. Its why when Allying Marines, I'd prefer something tanky to hold the Comms Array like Centurions, and go min Scouts for Troops.

Back on topic of alliances I think that if we are going to validate the use of forgeworld chapter tactics via red hunters then models with approved rules should be discussed as well. Legitimacy comes down to a case by case basis for the local gaming community or tournaments so that shouldn't limit us from discussing them here.

Go nuts just remember to put a disclaimer on 'this is Forge World' when talking about it. GW have dropped tourney support anyway, so as you say, its very variable what is legal now anyway.

How about the vindicare in a bunker with comms. It should keep him out of hand way while letting him take out some hard targets. And if they are directing fire his way your knights won't have to worry about so much shooting.

Why not a Culexus instead ? They're very unlikely to kill him.

[Happy-inquisitor]

How about the vindicare in a bunker with comms. It should keep him out of hand way while letting him take out some hard targets. And if they are directing fire his way your knights won't have to worry about so much shooting.

I have to say that I think the concept of using a comms array for null deployment is flawed. If you need to null deploy to avoid an alpha strike then leaving a target on the table just invites them to lay waste to it.

 

I think that using an HQ with reliable reserves modifier is far more viable, so long as their modifier works while they are in reserves themselves.

[Shadrach03]

Not explicitly using the vindicate for null deployment. The vindicare needs to have some defense to let him do his job. He should be able to threaten many units characters and hqs as well as chipping the last hp or wounds off of the bigger basis out there.

[Gentlemanloser]

Look out, Sir! really neuters the Vindicare.

 

Even with a -2 to the roll.