EnterRehab Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 The rules aren't quite clear on this.. Can NDK take both sword and hammer or only one/other? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Well it says "may replace 1 power fist with 1 of the following" ... So the way it's worded you can do it twice.. Because it doesn't say.. "may 'only' replace 1 power fists with 1 of the following'... But that leads to the question... Why would you want both? Lol They both have the same stats, just the hammer is concussive and the swords grants just 1 to hit re-roll Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Are the doom fists considered specialized? two specialized's should grant an extra attack, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 All the dreadknight CC weapons are specialised. So no matter what combo of weapons it has, it always gets the +1 attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Oh.. well then. That makes it easy to decide. Roll the swordssss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Depends what you're going against. If you're going against other MC or something that is likely to survive the first round of combat, I'd rather go with the hammer, because concussive reduces the enemy to initiative 1 during the second round of combat (if you wounded), so you get a second crack at killing them before they even get to swing at you :-P. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Oh, i didn't notice... the change on Greater Nemesis Weapons... Sword is master crafted, no more rerroll to hit and to wound... Hammer is Unwieldly, so it has Initiative 1. I think none of them are useful now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Oh, i didn't notice... the change on Greater Nemesis Weapons... Sword is master crafted, no more rerroll to hit and to wound... Hammer is Unwieldly, so it has Initiative 1. I think none of them are useful now. But aren't both STR x 2 ap 2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Nop, Sx2 is given by the Dread fists... and Ap2 is given by the Smash Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakmoore Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Oh, i didn't notice... the change on Greater Nemesis Weapons... Sword is master crafted, no more rerroll to hit and to wound... Hammer is Unwieldly, so it has Initiative 1. I think none of them are useful now. The standard weapon is a Power Fist instead of a Nemesis Doom Fist now thus no more automatic force, the Hammer and Sword in addition to regular benefits grant you force. I would always take one or the other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Basically, it's always S10, always AP2, but its Concussion/Force for +5pts or re-roll one miss/Force for +10pts. If you want Force, you have pony up for a Hammer or a Sword (or a H Psilencer) SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Monstrous creatures and walkers ignore the unwieldy rule. And both weapons stats in the book are double strength ap2. But yes, the nemesis doomfists no longer exists, they are power fists now. Making out dreadnoughts even more useless Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted September 4, 2014 Author Share Posted September 4, 2014 Monstrous creatures and walkers ignore the unwieldy rule. And both weapons stats in the book are double strength ap2. But yes, the nemesis doomfists no longer exists, they are power fists now. Making out dreadnoughts even more useless OK. So I was correct in my initial statement.. But now the hammer is a bit better than anticipated because MC ignores unwieldy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 For only 5 points too!!! Tis a bargain for force, and concussive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Wow i didn't notice all this changes... I'm glad this post was made. so in this case, hammers are a must! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Hammers are not a must. Concussive will never matter, if you're fighting T6+ enemies, you should turn on 'Force' anyway. You don't wanna get into protracted fights with other MC's, you don't have many wounds to give up. The greatsword got nerfed, but one re-roll to hit is still very nice, and honestly the re-roll to wound was never really needed (you wound everything on 2's anyway). It's still S10 AP2 force attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 When looking at the hammer, I would over-look that it's concussive, and keep in mind that it's half the price of the sword and still providing force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 When looking at the hammer, I would over-look that it's concussive, and keep in mind that it's half the price of the sword and still providing force. We're talking about 5pts versus 10pts. It's not gonna make or break your list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't know about you, but there are definitely lists I've made where I'm 1-5 points over. This is just one place you could go to cut back 5 pts/NDK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Hammers are not a must. Concussive will never matter, if you're fighting T6+ enemies, you should turn on 'Force' anyway. You don't wanna get into protracted fights with other MC's, you don't have many wounds to give up. The greatsword got nerfed, but one re-roll to hit is still very nice, and honestly the re-roll to wound was never really needed (you wound everything on 2's anyway). It's still S10 AP2 force attacks. I can think of many things you don't want to get stuck in melee with for prolonged fights and are all weak to instant death (wraithknights off the top of my head, not sure about riptides atm). Hammer is only good for multi-phase combats... a reroll of 1 hit may be the 1 wound you need to end the fight immediately. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't know about you, but there are definitely lists I've made where I'm 1-5 points over. This is just one place you could go to cut back 5 pts/NDK I'd drop a gun of a Dreadknight before dropping his greatsword. Not to mention, Rule of Cool. The sword looks so much better than the hammer. I can think of many things you don't want to get stuck in melee with for prolonged fights and are all weak to instant death (wraithknights off the top of my head, not sure about riptides atm). Well neither of them are Eternal Warriors (which is the only way to survive 'Force'), so yeah Riptides pop just as easily. They also don't get their annoying FNP rolls either, which is gravy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3800750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterRehab Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Forgive the lack of knowledge, i'm still new to the game. FNP is just an extra 5+ save ontop of your other save right? (including invuln) If you pass a FNP save, does it negate all wounds? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3801134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Yes its a 5+ you can use as long as the attack made was not double your toughness. Yes if you make that 5 up, its like the attack they just made didnt happen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3801249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Forgive the lack of knowledge, i'm still new to the game. FNP is just an extra 5+ save ontop of your other save right? (including invuln) If you pass a FNP save, does it negate all wounds? remember to roll FNP (1D6) for each wound, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3801257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Yes its a 5+ you can use as long as the attack made was not double your toughness. Yes if you make that 5 up, its like the attack they just made didnt happen Double toughness doesn't apply to the dreadknight. FnP can't be taken against attacks that inflict instant death, which is why you don't get FnP against attacks that are double toughness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296265-quick-ndk-question-related-to-melee-weapons/#findComment-3801574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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