Champions of Fenris & My Wolf Lord Conflict

[Carnivore]

  So I finally got my claws on my copy of Champions of Fenris, and to put it briefly, I love it, even more so than the main codex, which I was already a fan of. That being said, it's raised a few questions for me that I'd love to get some opinions on. I did search the other Wolf Lord threads before posting this, but didn't see anything specific that overlapped so here goes. This will probably be a bit lengthy - apologies for that.

 

  In 6th edition, I ran one of two Wolf Lord builds depending on the situation. The first was meant to be my favorite Wolf Lord from the actual canon, Bjorn Stormwolf, and in keeping with his description ("A hairy, red-faced mountain of muscle to whom calm and introspection are foreign concepts [...] a creature of might and ferocity over stealth"), I ran him with the following:

 

- Saga of the Bear

- Terminator Armour

- Belt of Russ

- Wolf Tooth Necklace

- Wolf Tail Talisman

- Chainfist & Storm Shield

 

  I meant him to be an almighty beatstick, hunting MCs and dueling HQs, and in that capacity, he excelled. I would pod him in with the Wolves' other resident man-mountain, Arjac, and a handful of other Wolf Guard terminators (TH/SS or CF/WC), and with Wolf Lord Bjorn tanking almost everything, that unit would win 90+% of the CC they got into (IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: Slight exaggeration, and that did NOT mean I necessarily went on to win the actual GAME lol). Bjorn was nigh-unkillable, and anything he hit went down, and stayed down.

 

  However, for as overwhelmingly strong as Bjorn was, he was a one-trick pony: he was painfully slow, and if he didn't get to my opponents monsters and characters quickly enough to kill at least his points worth, he was just a bust. I needed another option for the situations where Bjorn's skill set didn't fit the bill. Fluff-wise, I also wanted to make up my own Wolf Lord, and so Wolf Lord Boggvir Backbreaker was born. He was outfitted as follows:

 

- Saga of the Bear/Saga of the Warrior Born

- Runic Armour

- Belt of Russ

- Thunderwolf Mount

- Wolf Tail Talisman

- Powerfist & Wolf Claw

 

  I freely admit he was stupidly expensive, but I've always gotten swept up in fielding HQs that had crunch to back up the fluff. That being said, Boggvir was a blast to play. The Thunderwolf made him as fast as he was strong, and the PF/WC combo made him just as adept at crushing TEQs/MCs as ripping up MEQs/GEQs. With Saga of the Warrior Born, he was a whirlwind of death. However, even when I gave him Saga of the Bear he was not as survivable as Bjorn, so challenges were less of a sure thing, and even though I always ran him with a few TWC with shields to protect him, small arms fire and artillery still dropped him more times than I liked. But he worked great more often than not, so I kept him that way.

 

Then the new codex dropped, followed by the COF supplement. I immediately set about recreating my Wolf Lords, and the hero-centric COF allowed me to do that more to my satisfaction. So here we go...

 

1) Bjorn Stormwolf

- Armour of Asvald Stormwrack

- Chainfist & Storm Shield

- Relic: Fellclaw's Teeth

- Relic: The Pelt of Balewolf

- Digital Weapons

 

Keeping in mind I want him to be a Terminator-armoured Wolf Lord, and his role as a dedicated hero killer/monster slayer, is there any glaring weakness to this set-up? I love the idea of The Pelt of Balewolf, but is it worth having in actual practice most of the time? Are digital weapons wasted on him? Etc. Which then brings me to...

 

2) Boggvir Backbreaker

- Runic Armour

- Powerfist & Wolf Claw

- Thunderwolf Mount

- Relic: Fellclaw's Teeth

- Digital Weapons

 

As this is my go-to Thunderlord for when I'm fielding more TWC, who is more of an all-arounder in terms of his role on the battlefield, is this build cost-effective? Is there anything missing/superfluous? And most importantly, are Morkai's Claws a better option than the old standby of Powerfist and Wolf Claw? Etc.

 

If you made it this far, thank you for reading it all. I'd love to hear your thoughts, as well as any and all feedback, be it praise or criticism :).

[Valor]

First, I love a good ole beat stick HQ! As to your set up:

1) Bjorne Stormwolf - I would drop the pelt and the digital weapons. That's 25 pts (I think, don't have my book handy) that you can save. The pelt seems situational at best, and he will more than likely be wounding on 2's any way so the one re-roll prolly won't help much. Other than that, he looks good. Personally I don't use TDA beat stick HQ's because of their speed, but he will be a beast in CC when he makes it there! Now that you can take pods in FA! I would put him and his four best friends and bring them in turn 1 to help with their slow speed.

2) Boggvir Backbreaker - I love Lords/WGBL on TWC! I would drop the Fist/WC set up. For 10 pts cheaper, give him the Krakenbone sword. It's +1 STR, so he is hitting at STR 6 and AP2 at init 5! It's MC, so you could drop fellclaws teeth if you want, but that is a great and cheap relic if you want to keep it. If you go with the sword, a pistol would give him his +1 attack still, or you can throw on a SS for that sexy 3++ in case you don't trust his 4++. If you ran him as a WGBL, which I personally think is a great alternative from the stat boosts of the TWM, he is a lot cheaper and then the Storm Shield would be a must. Since you are running CoF, if you use him as a WGBL has preferred enemy in challenges, with makes the re-rolls even less needed, as it would only effect a roll of a 2. I would not give him Morkai's claws. Since he is on a TWM, he already has rending. The extra attacks are cool as well as shred (see above preferred enemy comment) but you really want AP2 on your lords.

 

Happy hunting!

[Squark]

For Bjorn, I'd go just chainfist, tda, storm shield, and the necklace. The armor of asvald is a colossal rules mess becuase it's not actually Terminator armor; You don't get the power weapon and storm bolter, you don't get the wargear discount (So you can't actually take a chainfist at all, since you don't have the power weapon to replace), and you end up paying an absurd amount of points just for It Will Not Die. If the FAQ fixes it, then it'll be great, but GW regards FAQs as annoyances and is lazy about them)

 

For Broggar, it's a toss up between the Krakenborn Sword and the Powerfist/Wolf Claw setups. Both can do a lot of damage, but it really depends on what he typically fights. The sword is good for killing characters and terminators, but the Wolf Claw is better at killing other infantry as well as monstrous creatures, and you've got a powerfist for punching biomancied Monsters and Wraithknights while the TWC pack leader takes the challenge (Or for when you need yet another land raider killed). Morkai's claws are generally best left at home, since they're the same price as the wolf claw + power fist setup, and you give up the huge advantage of a S10 power fist for one attack on average (When you already have seven on the charge)

[Carnivore]

  Valor, Squark, thank you both for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it! I enjoyed reading your feedback, and you've both given me some invaluable feedback and food for thought. Lol as is too often the way for me, those answers lead me to new questions, so if you both (and anyone else reading this) would humor me a little longer...

 

  Regarding Bjorn Stormwolf, I'm thrilled to hear I'm still able to run the big guy like the freight train he was, and happy I'm on the right track with his loadout. @Squark, I'm surprised to hear that about Armour of Arvald Stormwrack, I hadn't heard anything about the controversy surrounding it until now. I hope GW gets that resolved soon - the rules for it (if it IS Terminator armour) are great, and it really fits the character, so I hope I can use it on him soon. Until then I'll just stick Bjorn in regular Terminator armour and make a mental to upgrade it again if/when it gets FAQed. I'll drop the digital weapons and Balewolf's Pelt as well, though I might give the Pelt a few more playtests just to see how situational its benefits are. I like the idea of using a pod for him and Arjac and the rest of his bodyguard - it's certainly a great deal cheaper points-wise than a Land Raider, and nowhere near as risky as teleporting them in. Speaking of expensive transports, what are your thoughts on the Stormwolf (the transport)? I haven't bought a Stormwolf/Stormfang yet, so I haven't had a chance to see how they perform on the battlefield, but at least in name it sounds tailor-made for Bjorn lol. Is the Stormwolf (the transport) worth its points? I've heard it described as our answer to the Stormraven/Caestus Assault Ram, but no one I know personally plays Wolves but me so I haven't seen it firsthand. Just curious as to anyone's take on that as well :).

 

  Regarding Boggvir... you guys really gave me a lot to think about here! I'd read some rave reviews about Morkai's Claws, but it sounds like they're a bit redundant on a Thunderlord, and don't measure up to the combo of speed and strength given by the Claw-and-Fist combo. Are Morkai's Claws much better on a Terminator Lord? Just curious. Anyway, this brings us back to the Krakenbone Sword... now that sounds like it lives up to the hype, and Valor, as you so rightly pointed out, the AP2 on a S6 Thunderlord at I5 is a fearsome combination indeed! I would probably err on the side of safety and pair it with a SS rather than a pistol, especially if accepting/issuing challenges with Boggvir. I confess I'm a bit torn, but as it stands I'm leaning toward keeping Boggvir armed with the PF/WC. Squark, you must have read my mind, for I love having a x2 strength weapon on my Lord, be it Powerfist, Thunder Hammer, or Chainfist (on Termi Lord) for dealing with the big nasties. That being said, should I bring along a Wolf Guard Battle Leader armed with the Krakenbone Sword/SS as backup? Or would his lower statline make it a waste of the sword and thus the overall points? I've never bothered with a WGBL before, saving my other HQ slot for my Rune Priest, but with COF's additional HQ slots I'm very intrigued by that possibility.

 

Thanks for reading!

[Squark]

While I admittedly don't have CoF yet so I can't actually check the exact wording, the issue is purchasing TDA is handled 3 different ways for Wolf Lords/Battle Leaders, Wolf Priests, and Rune Priests, since each swaps different things for different wargear. Wolf Priests get a storm bolter and can upgrade it to a combi-weapon, Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders get a power weapon and storm bolter, and have access to all terminator upgrades and can purchase a storm shield at a seperate price to allow them to take any weapon with a shield, while Rune Priests don't get anything extra with the purchase, but they can buy storm bolters and combi-weapons. Plus, nothing actually calls the armor TDA in the rules, so aside from the wargear issue, there's also the technically legal move of buying it for a thunderwolf lord.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure how you could make the armor work aside from creating seperate entries for each type of HQ.

[Creamywynch]

Hmm I am thinking of running a similar wolf lord on twc and was also curious about whether to run a wgbl ontwc instead. I hate the thought of paying for a belt of russ on the lord then having to pay for a storm shield (my pref loadout) for him. The wgbl is cheaper and you dont have to pay for the belt of russ but he is less of a beatstick and I am not sure if the krakenbone sword is worth it for a cheaper character. What are your thoughts on the two loadouts?

 

I like the idea of a lord in termi armour but tbh in all my games I ever played with one he very rarely made it into combat due to his speed, unless he was in a mode of transport that just upped his cost even more.

[Nova_chron]

Battle leaders make amazing budget beat sticks I have been playing back and forth with lords and I think Krom is the man for me until I get champions of Fenris... Now on the topic of battle leaders they are 50 points each and just as customizable as a lord with one less WS/W/A I think. This is handled for the WS because you are taking him from champions. At that point pick what you want him to do and gear him out to do it... Hunting terminators? Krakenborne sword and a storm shield mount optional depending on the unit e is joining. Mulching chaff you could keep him cheaper by not taking a relic sword and just a wolf claw and storm shield. Think of the battle leader as a scalpel and you will find a use for him.

[Lord Ragnarok]

While I admittedly don't have CoF yet so I can't actually check the exact wording, the issue is purchasing TDA is handled 3 different ways for Wolf Lords/Battle Leaders, Wolf Priests, and Rune Priests, since each swaps different things for different wargear. Wolf Priests get a storm bolter and can upgrade it to a combi-weapon, Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders get a power weapon and storm bolter, and have access to all terminator upgrades and can purchase a storm shield at a seperate price to allow them to take any weapon with a shield, while Rune Priests don't get anything extra with the purchase, but they can buy storm bolters and combi-weapons. Plus, nothing actually calls the armor TDA in the rules, so aside from the wargear issue, there's also the technically legal move of buying it for a thunderwolf lord.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure how you could make the armor work aside from creating seperate entries for each type of HQ.

What's the issue with clarity on terminator armor and thunder wolf mounts?

[Carnivore]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! Really appreciate the collaborative attitude, though I'm not surprised as we are all Sons of Russ . I playtested the Thunderwolf WGBL with the Krakenbone Sword and a SS, and seriously impressed by the destruction it brought to the table (details below). Though sorely tempted to swap in the Krakenbone Sword on my Lord, I'm going to stick with Boggvir's preexisting loadout, but having the WGBL adds another dimension to the pack, and one that will probably see a lot of use in the future. Haven't tried out Morkai's Claws yet, but I might try those on a WGBL as well in my Terminator Lord list as a leader of my second WG Terminator pack and see what it does. Fingers crossed, lol.

@Creamywynch: I appreciate the question, mate. After looking through both the new codex and the supplement, with the possible exception of the smallest of games, we'd be crazy to not bring a Wolf Lord. Our Lords have always had the potential to be total beatsticks, but in 6th you paid through the nose for it. Now, in 7th, they're even better, cheaper points-wise and up to date rules-wise. As I said previously, I am a sucker for a CC-monster HQ, so I'll pay the extra points for the Lord every time, whether I'm running Bjorn (Terminator Lord) or Boggvir (Thunderwolf Lord). I totally understand your reluctance to pay for the Belt of Russ and the Storm Shield, but I think - and this is just my humble opinion - it's a small price to pay for the survivability of such a loadout, particularly with stronger statline of a Lord versus that of a Battle Leader.

I run Boggvir with the PF/WC combo, because I love the utility and power it gives. You don't have the insurance defensively a shield adds, but I'm also able to strike at Initiative with the Claw, which is huge and more than enough to take down most opponents I send him up against. For the tougher HQs and the biggest gribblies, Boggvir is, as Squark wisely pointed out, able to say hello with a S10 Powerfist hit . That being said, I do surround him with a bunch of TWC with shields to soak up ranged attacks until they get stuck in in CC. So to answer your initial question, I ALWAYS take a Lord, and will continue to do so. However, I did finally get to play a game against my buddy's Orkz yesterday with my Thunderlord (PF/WC) AND a WGBL on a Thunderwolf armed with the Krakenbone Sword and a SS. I was VERY pleased with how well the BL performed as a second to my Lord. I could take challenges with either one at my leisure, and between the two of them and their five buddies (TWC Pack Leader with PF/SS, 2 TWC with Power Axe/SS and 2 with Power Maul/SS), they destroyed his Meganobz and his Warboss in one turn. Then just turned anything that didn't run from them into a fine green mist. An expensive unit, to be sure, but the most effective deathstar I've ever fielded. And I still love and will continue to play my Terminator Lord as well! I just accept that when I do he will, as you said, be moving at the speed of slow. Once he catches something, though... BOOM!

@Nova_Chron: Thank you for the excellent feedback and explanation, it was extremely helpful. As I'm sure you just read I ran the Krakenbone/SS WGBL next to my PF/WC ThunderLord for the first time, and I was thrilled with how that unit became that much deadlier just from his addition. I will continue to explore my options, but I expect to see a Thunderwolf WGBL as a regular on my Thunderwolf-centric list.

@Lord Ragnarok: I'll explain as I understand it. There is no issue regarding regular Terminator armour and Thunderwolf mounts - as has been the case, it's one or the other. However, in Champions of Fenris, there is a relic called the Armour of Asvald Stormwrack. In the fluff above the actual entry and rules, it is stated to be an ancient suit of Terminator armour that is stronger, can repair itself, etc. It grants you all the benefits of terminator armour plus better armour saves and IWND. HOWEVER, even though it shares all the rules specific to Terminator armour, nowhere in the actual entry or rules is it EXPLICITLY stated to actually be Terminator armour. That designation is solely in the fluff. This has lead to some literalists arguing that the Armour of Asvald is, technically, not Terminator armour, and so can be given to a Thunderlord as well, creating the Loyalist equivalent of a Nurgle Biker Lord with the Black Mace, but better . Personally I would only take it as Terminator armour on my Terminator Wolf Lord, but only once it's FAQed to be definitely identified as such. Hope that helps.

[SamaNagol]

You cant put a model in Armour of Asvald on a TWM you cretins. It says it is Terminator Armour in the relic entry. I don't care if it doesnt say it in the rules one paragraph below. You wont find a Tournament Organiser or Store Manager in the world who will agree with you that it somehow is not Terminator Armour if someone calls for a judge when you try to pull that one out.

[Squark]

You cant put a model in Armour of Asvald on a TWM you cretins. It says it is Terminator Armour in the relic entry. I don't care if it doesnt say it in the rules one paragraph below. You wont find a Tournament Organiser or Store Manager in the world who will agree with you that it somehow is not Terminator Armour if someone calls for a judge when you try to pull that one out.

Woah, there! I don't think anyone is endorsing such a thing. I was just pointing out that whoever wrote CoF really didn't realize how much work creating a suit of relic terminator armor and making it work actually is, and it not actually being TDA by RAW is a symptom of that, and then some people wondered what I meant.

 

(For the record, the easiest way to make the armor work would be a passage like "Any one model with access to the Relics of the Fang List in Terminator Armor may upgrade their armor to the Armor of Asvald Stormwrack for XX pts)

[Karack Blackstone]

I think the rules clarification issue of the armor is part of the differing gaming mentalities depending upon where one is at the time.

 

From what I have been told at my local game store, across the pond the name of the game is a very lax and not exactly US tournament friendly mindset normally.  Conversely, here, in the US things are quite different, and doing things such as trying to argue the armor is or is not TDA seems to be a very different line of thinking.

 

The armor sounds like a suit of TDA; the FAQ might clear that up, however, until then, it sounds more or less like as stated, TDA.

 

I'd guess the final call is up to the mods here as to how this topic is to proceed, so I'll wait and see as to how this shall go.

[SamaNagol]

GW will never FAQ it stating it is Terminator armour because the entry already says it is Terminator armour.

 

Doesnt matter what side of the pond the game happens, Judges and TOs wont allow it to be given to a model with a bike/TWM/Jump Pack.

 

People will actually try and argue anything on the internet. It is a big part of the reason why GW avoid it as a company these days.

[Squark]

GW will never FAQ it stating it is Terminator armour because the entry already says it is Terminator armour.

 

Doesnt matter what side of the pond the game happens, Judges and TOs wont allow it to be given to a model with a bike/TWM/Jump Pack.

 

People will actually try and argue anything on the internet. It is a big part of the reason why GW avoid it as a company these days.

That's not how you write rules for a game. Just because, "Oh, no sane DM TO or Judge will allow it," does not mean errata/FAQ is not merrited. It's a game designer's job to fix discrepanices and rules gaffs like this, not the consumers'. Plus, there's the bigger issue of terminator weapons not working with it.

 

Granted, you might have a point that GW's sluggishness with FAQs might lead to that particular issue never being resolved. But that doesn't make the rules issue any less a problem.