TWC loadout Question

[toonarmy]

If the thunder strike formation is the only pod will it not jus automatically come in turn 1?

 

Also how many of you run 2 units of TWC?

[Squark]

If the thunder strike formation is the only pod will it not jus automatically come in turn 1?

 

Also how many of you run 2 units of TWC?

The first question isn't relevant to the thread- Did you mean to put it in the FAQ? (And the answer is, well, we don't know)

 

The latter; I plan to. Generally speaking, you should have 5+ TWC in an 1850 list if you're going to run them. Whether that's 2 packs of 3 or one large pack is a trickier question.

[ADHD-Spacewolf]

When I run mine I run a six man squad with one hammer, 5 frost swords, and 6 ss. With a lord with twm, runic armor, and wolf claws but I fight elder and grey knights a lot, so I need all the invol saves. And the ap 3 and extra strength really helps for me

[Carnivore]

  Sorry for the delayed response. Valerian already answered the other questions asked of me more articulately than I myself probably would have, so I'll reply to the only one left really. My Thunderwolf Lord always gets runic armor. Always. It's not game-breaking, but it gives him enough of an edge when it counts to be an auto-include for me.

 

  I'd also like to just offer my two cents on the distraction unit question. For how things stand in 7th, for me there are really only two options so far, though I expect players better than myself will offer up others at some point. In my opinion, a distraction unit has to do two things: 1) Offer your opponent a target at least as appealing - i.e. threatening - as the unit you're trying to protect, and 2) be cheaper than the unit you want to protect, cheap enough that if it is blasted off the map, you still have enough points elsewhere to carry the day. Those two options are Murderfang, or a 3-4 man TDA WG pack led by Arjac Rockfist (2-3 Combi-Meltas, 2-3 Power Axes & 1 Chainfist). Obviously Murderfang is significantly cheaper, but Arjac and his A-Team have been consistently more effective across the board. That's just my take, though. Either option you pod in for the alpha strike. If your opponent chooses to ignore them for the Thunderwolves, Murderfang or Arjac will make them wish they hadn't.

[d@n]

wolf claw and storm shields for all. they just destroy everything. i dont really know why you would arm them any other way

[Frater Cornelius]

Because they get too expensive and still die like regular TWC due to failed armour saves.

[Lord Blackwood]

Because they get too expensive and still die like regular TWC due to failed armour saves.

As you can see a lot of people have diffrent  ideas about how to run them but this is the one ive adopted.  I  keep  some shields and specialist gear on some of em but I  do run 3 with just bolt pistols and close combat weapons to make sure I can run a big deathstar. Weight of Fire kills Thunder Wolf Cavalry.  I keep  some stormshields in the list but its really more about  the  amount of guys.  Atleast that is my opinion. 

 

Normally youll see 3 BP CCW  2 SS CCW 1 PF SS   in my  like standard cheap deathstar unit with my Lord in there and an ironpriest usually the unit runs over whatever it touches and is able to deal with taking some fire.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I like all ss ccw with one power fist in a block of 4 or 5 guys.

[d@n]

Because they get too expensive and still die like regular TWC due to failed armour saves.

if you have not tried them as I suggested, you should. There worth every point. There fast so can get into combat quickly and you can spread the wounds through out the pack with look out sirs.

[Frater Cornelius]

Really..? You are trying to teach me how to handle TWC..? No offense, bud, but I am the last one you should be telling how to use them ;)

 

Your setup does a lot of damage, there is no denying. And in a friendly game it will work.

However, against top tier lists it is a way too big investment and faith put into a 3+ save. Tesla spam, Serpent, WS or WW spam, Tau MP spam all will put so many wounds on the TWC for their 3+ to handle. There is a reason why minimize the amount of SS in the unit. They die to armour saves.

 

As for getting into combat fast, against a good Eldar or Tau you will only make it into combat T3, and it will be a throwaway unit like 5 Dire Avengers put up as meat shield. They die and there is yet another round of shooting. Necrons will just throw Wraiths and Scarabs your way and call it a day.

 

If you really insist on running an expensive unit like that, you better have some really good support. We are talking 'Drop Pod Centurions with Tigurius' level. And still, you are paying 75 points per model with WC/SS. Too much. You will be missing the points in other areas.

 

I like running mine in a 5man unit with BP/SS, BP/SS, BP/CCW, BP/CCW, BP/PF.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think the key to TWC is attaching a couple of ICs with runic armor to tank wounds. A 2+ Sv is twice as good as a 3+ Sv. One Wolf Lord and an Iron Priest can make the squad last a lot longer.

[skeletoro]

immersturm... Any chance you could dial back the arrogance a tad? No offense but we aren't all here to pay homage to your warhammer-fu.

 

regardless of how awesome that fu may be. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Fair enough. I thought it might come over a tad too direct :P

[skeletoro]

don't get me wrong. I appreciate your contributions ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Thanks, bud ;)

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Immy, d@n is quite a competent player as well, and a valued member of the frater. And we all know that you are the hyper competitive player/list builder by preference. We are not all that way, brother!!

 

I have run a WC/SS TWCPL to quite a lot of my liking. He can deal some damage and is strong enough to take down light to middle armor. The rending and number of attacks is great in a challenge or in regular combat.

 

I agree with B&O in the 2+ having a tremendous effect on the survivability. I've been running a lord with RA and throwing a TWCIP in the pack as well. Well, I've tried it twice now. I can break off the IP to 'heal' my tanks if needed as well.

 

End of Line

[skeletoro]

here's a side question. Biomancy is great for thunderwolf cavalry. Is it worth it to put rune priests on bikes inside a TWC pack?

 

in some ways it makes more sense to put the rune priests in a biker unit, but TWC are the better unit, I think. Perhaps it is better to pay the 'tax' of clashing unit types, than it is to field a dedicated biker retinue for your rune priests?

[skeletoro]

Oh unm, anecdote. I played a 1150 point army containing a lord, 3 ip and 10 TWC spread across 3 packs, vs my friend's fledgling eldar army today and managed to nearly table him in 3 turns while only taking a single casualty myself. In his defense his collection is a somewhat eclectic mix and he hasn't played against TWC before (or at all really, since 2nd edition).

[Frater Cornelius]

3/6 Biomancy spells do benefit TWC. You are at Endurance and Life Leech for survivability and Enfeeblement for offense.

However, a RP only gets 2 rolls at best and you might get stuck with Hemorrhage and Warp Speed. I have found that if you want psychic support, get a reliable psyker and bring RP as a battery or to roll on Divination.

Realistically we are looking at Tigurius to roll and re-roll on Telepathy and/or Biomancy (I think Invisibility is a tad stronger than Endurance) or Sevrin Loth choosing stuff from either Discipline. I prefer Tiggy because he has greater options and reliable psychic phase. However, if you want survivability, then Loth is your man.

Rune Priests just leave too much up to chance in a field that is already heavily handicapped by randomness.

 

@ RPR - It was no attack at our dear friend d@n, do not worry. Having a competitive mindset is not always required and certainly no excuse for being a douche. The last thing I want to do is fall into elitism.

My apologies to d@n, I will choose my wording better the next time something comes up ;)

[Donkalleone]

Skele and immer will take a room and d@n will watch...that will be linke a peace treaty.

[Z00Z]

Hail brothers, 

 

Just finished a maraton 2v2 7K game. Took us 10 hours haha. My TWC unit recently finished painted for the solstice advance faired really really well. I ran Harald with 2 pups, TH+SS, dual WC and a naked TWC. In 4 turns, they wiped a squad of GK PA Assualt, a stealth suit unit from Tau and an imperial knight. Standing on the table was Harald and dual-claw TWC. I ap a lot of AP3 shots fired at the unit during these 4 turns and I counted 6 invul saves made by the TH+SS. So definitely paid for it's weight in salt. My intention now is to build 2 more TH+SS, and the last being the IP. 

 

I wont do a full battle report but from this game my LF were useless as well as voild claws. Unfortunately yhey got tangled with a dreadknight turn 2. It as a slaughter. MVP's were TWC, 10x PA WG thunderstrike with combi-plasmas....insane amount of damage they did in the turn they came in AND a unit of 5 skyclaws with 2x flamers. 

 

The turn I killed the knight I scored 3 TO points for killing him and rolled a 6! on D3 victory points

 

Overall, scores were 9-8, victory to SW and CSM vs. GK and Tau 2v2. 

Awesome fun!

[skeletoro]

Here's what I think about bio RP on bike in a TWC pack:

1. Smite is a good fall back. It means you're not screwed if you roll bad powers. But really, over half the powers are good.

2. Warp speed may not be the absolute best power in the game. However, it does have the advantage of negating one of the drawbacks of putting a bike with twc: it confers fleet, thus restoring it to the unit.

3. In an assault, enfeeble can be a huge boost to the survivability of t5: it causes s4 attacks to cause 50% fewer wounds.

4. Life leech, yup. Endurance, mm. Both good/excellent, in this context.

5. Really the only BAD power is haemorrhage.

6. Ugh, battery low. Will post more later

[skeletoro]

the other things I was thinking:

The context for me: an apoc game where I will combine the big champions of fenris formation with a bunch of TWC. All models in the formation get some very nice special rules, and some of those special rules benefit joined units. The formation includes just one iron priest (which could lead one TWC pack) and a rune priest. With a bike or jump pack, that rune priest could be attached to a second TWC pack, and both would get a bunch of rules. Preferred enemy is one of the perks, I forget what else. So in that context it's especially worth it to shoehorn the RP into a TWC pack

Another thing is that jump packs may be preferable to bikes in this context. Yes, the RP loses How, T5, relentless TL bolters, and jink, but jump infantry can move 12 and then run (though they lack fleet). Arguably, a bike joined to a TWC pack can turbo boost but the TWC unit cannot run while it has attached bikes.

At 135 points, you can get:

Rune priest

Runic armour

Jump pack

ML2

Psychic hood

Put this guy in a TWC pack, alongside an iron priest with 4 cyberwolves, and two of those cyberwolves can even be loaned to the rune priest. He'd be vulnerable to s8 ID attacks but it's another 2W 2+/6++ LoS! model at a roughly similar cost to the IP. Those two characters, plus 6 TWC (maybe 2-3 shields but no special weapons)and 4 ablative cyberwolves. Not too shabby, I reckon.

For that matter, something similar could be done with a wolf priest, I guess.

[Frater Cornelius]

How exactly do you loan them to the RP? They have to stay in the same unit as the IP. Or do you mean that the RP moves some wounds on them via Lo,S while he is in the unit?

[skeletoro]

yeah the latter. Nothing earth shattering. Just that it's a tad easier to do los shenanigans if you have a couple of ICs. It's easier to ensure an IC will be the closest target to any incoming fire.

 

That said, with a 28mm base it will be a bit difficult to get 2-3 models into B2B with the RP in order to ensure they're all the closest target. I have been (as much ad I can) hugging my IPs with a cyberwolf and at least one TWC (preferably one with a shield). With a 28mm base, one cyberwolf and one TWC will probably be about the limit.

 

Is it modelling for advantage to put a custom built rune priest with jump pack onto a 40mm base? Krom has one, but most power armoured models are on 28mm bases (though supposedly blood angels will be on new 32mm bases, so there's that).