Sheesh Mode Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hi all! Fasha the dog has been hounding me to start a 30k army and has raised some convincing points like: more models, more balance, and most importantly: better aesthetics. So I have decided to play Imperial Fists an army I've always preferred despite of my chaotic tendencies. Looking through the books I have settled for the following list and the Imperial Fists rite of war. Praetor – Solarite Guantlet/Plasmapistol/combi-flamer/Ironhalo Rite of War: The Stone Gauntlet Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Quad Heavy Bolter Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Quad Heavy Bolter Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Laser Destroyer Array Legion Breacher squad – (15) – 3 Flamer – Combi-flamer Legion Breacher squad – (15) – 3 Flamer – Combi-flamer Legion Phalanx Warders – (15) – 3 Plasma Gun – Combi-Plasma Heavy Weapons Support Squad – (8) Missile Launchers Heavy Weapons Support Squad – (8) Missile Launchers Aegis Defense Line – Quad Gun 2000pts. The list layout is very simple. Place the Aegis Defense Line six inches forward from the end of the my deployment zone. Deploy the Phalanx Warders and Laser Destroyer Arrays along the middle of the defense line and deploy the Breacher squads and Quad Heavy Bolters along the flanks. The Heavy Weapons Support Squads will hold rear corners of the map - cover permitting - and fire on primary targets of opportunity. I really like the idea of dozens of space-knights fortifying against a rush of xenos and traitors, pumping heavybolters and missiles into the oncoming enemy. I know that my units are exposed and that common opinion states tacticals are more points efficient, but I think this is a tough and durable list. It has sufficient anti-infantry and medium tank firepower. The biggest threats will be Landraiders and Caestus assault rams. If I face another shooting army it depends largely on dice and who gets first turn. Please tell me what you think. This is a list that is utterly different to what I normally field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Just updated the list. Alexis PoluxCenturion - Master of the Signal - Bolter Rapier Weapons Battery - 2 Quad Heavy BolterRapier Weapons Battery - 2 Quad Heavy BolterRapier Weapons Battery - 3 Laser Destroyer Array Legion Breacher Squad - (15) Vexilla - 3 Melta - Combi-MeltaLegion Breacher Squad - (15) Vexilla - 3 Flamer - Combi-FlamerLegion Breacher Squad - (15) Vexilla - 3 Vulcite Charger - Combi-plasmaHeavy Weapons Support Squad - (8) Missile Launchers Heavy Weapons Support Squad - (8) Missile LaunchersAegis Defense Line - Quad Gun 2000pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3803971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 So for arguements sake, in a 2k list, Were I to bring Sigismund and some templars + primus medicae or a Terminator Squad (5 vigil storm shields) and Terminator Primus Medicae (the sgts in both squads + primus medicae having the Solarite Power Gauntlet), in a Spartan with Flare Shield (-1S to shooting in front arc) and Armored Ceramite (ignore melta special rule); How would you deal with something like that charging up the front towards you (bear in mind it has 4 TLLC shots) + whatever else I bring (contemptors, 20 man Tac Blobs, etc.? Or better yet, with some adjustment, I could bring in a WE force consisting of : 2 Spartans (geared as above) inside would be 1 chaplain, 1 apothecary & 20 Tacticals with Extra CCW ( copy and pasted inside each spartan) + 2 Contemptor Dreads with 2DCCW + Heavy Flamers? How about an artillery heavy IW list that can outrange + template nearly everything your bringing? The reality is, for roughly the same price as 10 breachers, I could bring 20 tacticals for not much more points before upgrades AND easily include Apothecaries for FNP. In the same vein, Melta would be near useless since armored ceramite will neuter that threat quite handily. And, in the case of an RG deepstrike list, with Alvarex Maun's 18" no scatter bubble, I could easily drop some Dark Furies &/or Mor Deythan right by your Heavy Support teams, take them out, then bring in 2-5 storm eagles / Fire Raptors / Darkwing Storm Eagles and essentially leave you without a means of dealing with them (they all have armored ceramite too). SO! To that end, consider only having 1 squad of breachers that roll around with Polux; if you could justify it, maybe Phalanx Warders (though they also suffer from being overcosted much like the breachers), give them an appropriate vehicle or other means of transportation. Get more fully manned (or 15man) Tac blobs with apothecaries (sgts having AA + PW or PF) and consider having at least a Sicarian / 2 contemptor mortis' / Graviton Rapier Batteries (any / or in combinations that you can fit) since they'll do more for you than Quad Heavy Bolter Rapiers. Having 2-3 maxed out tac blobs at BS5 will probably shoot more than those Heavy Bolters will anyways. Plus, since your taking Polux, try and find a way to capitalize on his deepstriking rule. So maybe cut breachers out entirely and add in terminators or Termies & breachers. About the Rite of War; It is sadly underwhelming in any game mode that isn't Zone Mortalis (or equivalent) since the +1 toughness, etc. don't equalize or outweigh the negatives (compulsory Breachers, no deepstrike[neutering Alexis' rules], more troops than HS, FA & Elites, etc.) You're better off either not taking one or using Pride of the Legion / Armored Spearhead. Though, really RoW's only become truly effective in larger games; 2.5k+ or in the case of the Imperial Fists, ZM, which is where Breachers and equivalents start to truly shine. As per usual, if anyone has any better insight than I do on this subject, feel free to correct me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Most of the internet has essentially told me that tactical squads are the go-to choice for anti-infantry other than Volkite Culverns. Is this true? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Yes, because at 20 men, with Fury of the Legion (shoot twice if you haven't moved this turn and don't shoot next) + rapid fire range = 80 shots per 20 men. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 If I face another shooting army it depends largely on dice and who gets first turn. Not really. You think this is a gunline, and in a sense, it is. You've got an aegis, a line of dudes, and a bunch of guns, but you don't have the firepower in there. You've hamstrung your list with those HB rapiers, breachers, and phalanx warders. You could survive one of those, but all three just hurt your point efficiency too much. The same number of tacticals as your breachers + warders is 600 points, vs 880 for the breachers/warders. A gunline with 45 tacticals instead of 30 breachers/15 warders will have 280 points more to spend on firepower. Considering how tickle-cannon-esque those Quad HBs are, you might as well not even have them - 240 points extra for your opponent. It's a minor point, but the loadouts on your breachers/warders is also pretty bad. Even with Unshakable Defence, vexillas are needed. You cannot afford to roll a 10 on a Ld check and just have a 250 point infantry squad run off the table edge. Combiweapons are more bad point efficiency (you could have an entire other marine for the cost, so why are you bringing combiflamers?). Likewise, I think flamers are one of the lesser choices for your breachers, meltaguns will give you a lot more flexibility and MEQ/TEQ killing power. Slipstream really hit the nail on the head, as well, in that you don't have the tools for dealing with a Spartan, and neither do you really have the tools for dealing with an assault. Most of the internet has essentially told me that tactical squads are the go-to choice for anti-infantry other than Volkite Culverns. Is this true? In a way. Bolters aren't especially great against power armor, but the tac marines themselves are so cheap and tough (with an apothecary) that they can really get stuck in and hold their ground in a firefight. With fury of the legion, they can frontload a bunch of damage. There are better infantry killers out there, but they're not usually troops; getting the anti-infantry and durability of tacticals in your compulsory troops choices for their low cost is what makes tacticals good. They're anti-infantry that you're going to have anyway. Culverins are also great, and they really come into their own when you can point them at something with a 4+ save (like some mechanicum units, or the upcoming solar auxillia). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 And if you're planning on going against other 40k armies (eldar, orks, tyranids) Volkites of nearly any kind will just destroy them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Combiweapons are more bad point efficiency (you could have an entire other marine for the cost, so why are you bringing combiflamers?). For the same reason anyone brings a combi-weapon: more of the same special weapons fire. Flamers in particular are useful because they will almost always make their points back. You can't miss with a flamer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Can Polux deepstrike with an infantry squad using his special rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Rules as Written, yes Polux grants Deep Strike to any unit he joins. However, with Stone Gauntlet, you cannot Deep Strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3804971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Praetor – Terminator Armor – Vigil Pattern Storm Shield – Paragon Blade – Master Crafted Legion Command squad - (4) – Terminator Armor – 2 Pairs of Lightning Claws – 2 Vigil Pattern Storm Shields – 2 Thunderhammers Master of the Signal Contemptor Deadnought (2) – (2) pairs of Twinlinked Las Cannons Apothecarion Detachment – (2) 2 Augury Scanners Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Graviton Cannon Legion Tactical squad – (15) Legion Tactical squad – (15) Sicaran Battle Tank – Lascannon 2000pts This seems to do a much better job balancing out the assault and firepower abilities of the Imperial Fists. I am going to hold on to the Stone-Gauntlet idea. Zone Mortalis is very attractive to me, but I typically play much larger games. I dislike the lack of anti-air in this list, but have attempted to mitigate this by including a master of the signal who can increase a targets BS by +1. I assume that rules as written allows me to increase the BS of a unit when it is snapfiring? Either way, 4 twinlinked lascannons will likely still do the job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 When a Contemptor-Mortis forgoes its movement, for that turn, it gains Skyfire and Interceptor. That's why Contemptor-Mortis with TLLC, Kheres and Autocannons are more or less mainstays in most legion lists. Edit: Since you're using Imperial Fists, get Teleportation Transponders on your Terminators to Deepstrike them since 30k Terminators can't deepstrike unless otherwise specified. Tactical Squad: Get a Vexilla at minimum. If you have the points, Artificer Armor + Power Axe or Power Fist on the Sarge. Armored Ceramite on the Sicarian to neuter the Melta Rule. In the event that you'll be running a Tac Squad forward, consider getting the squad a Nunci-vox so that you can no-scatter Teleport your Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Then get rid of the landraider? Hmm. Okay one moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I didn't see a Land Raider in what you posted. If thats what you've got, it's good enough. I had assumed the Terminators were going to footslog since you didn't mention them being in a vehicle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Actually, I think removing the landraider and addind Nuncio Vox's does more for the list. It gives me room to give my units more upgrades and is a convenient means of preventing an alpha strike against the terminators. I do hope I have enough firepower to counter other fire-heavy armies though. Praetor – Terminator Armor – Vigil Pattern Storm Shield – Paragon Blade – Master Crafted – Teleportation Transponder – Grenade Harness Legion Command squad - (4) – Terminator Armor – Teleportation Transponder – Illaestus pattern assault cannon – 4 Lightning Claws – 3 Volkite Chargers Master of the Signal Contemptor Mortis Deadnought – Pair of Twinlinked Las Cannons – Ceramite Plating – 2 Hunter Killer Missiles Apothecarion Detachment – (2) 2 Augury Scanners Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Graviton Cannon Legion Tactical squad – (15) – Legion Vexilla – Nuncio Vox – Artificer Armor – Power Axe Legion Tactical squad – (15) – Legion Vexilla – Nuncio Vox – Artificer Armor – Power Axe Sicaran Battle Tank – Sponson Lascannons – Ceramite Plating Heavy Support Squad – (9) Missile Launchers – Flak Missiles - Augury Scanner 1994 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Contemptor Dreadnought Can't take Armored Ceramite, sadly. The Illaestus Assault Cannon, I'm iffy about since if you're unlucky in your first round of shooting, it might turn into a load of wasted points. Take the Reaper Autocannon, much more reliable. Also, since you're playing Imperial Fists Look at the Solarite Power Gauntlet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have seen the Solarite Power Gauntlet and it is impressive. However, on the Praetor it seemed unnecessary considering the character is part of deepstrike team designed to cut through enemy infantry and elites. Also, I am on the fence about the Reaper Auto-cannon as compared to the Illaestus Pattern Assault Cannon while there is an understandable fear of the assault cannon jamming it is highly unlikely. Something like 1.6% chance of that happening. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 True, but you only need to get unlucky once. You can put a Sol Glove on any IF IC so essentially, any of the chosen in a CS can take one (iirc) as well as any consul that can and any Sergeants. Doesn't necessarily have to be on the Preator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Sergeants cannot. But I see what you mean. Would you clarify iirc? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Well, yeah, Tac Sergeants cannot, but Templar Champions (sergeants of the Squad) as well as Terminator Sergeants can :p Just clearing that up even though you understood what I meant, in the event someone else reading this didn't.... I think Phalanx Warder Sarges can too...need to look that up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 How? It says in the rules that only an independent character can be equipped with a solarite gauntlet. I know chosen are characters, but they are not independent characters. (Bear with me I should be asleep) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Hmm, you might be right in this instance. I read the rule meaning that all chosen can issue/accept challenges as them being IC's but in a squad, therefore allowing them to take IC gear. I could be TOTALLY wrong in that respect as it would make them HORRENDOUSLY overpowered. 4 Chosen all with Ap1 Sx2 Mc Sol Gloves? Yes Please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Exactly. While it's very attractive I don't see Forgeworld making a mistake like that. Normal Powerfists are already very good in the hands of chosen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Ah well, thanks for helping me help you help me help you...clear this up :p If you ever have some nagging questions about some 30k Stuff, check out Rules/Tactica/ and the AoD forums since there are quite a few posts about Units / FoC Slots / Legions, etc that might be very useful and have some pertinent information that you weren't aware of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheesh Mode Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Praetor – Cataphracti Terminator Armor – Vigil Pattern Storm Shield – Paragon Blade – Master Crafted – Teleportation Transponder – Grenade Harness Legion Command squad (5) – Cataphracti Terminator Armor – Teleportation Transponder – Illaestus pattern assault cannon – 5 Lightning Claws – 4 Combi Bolters – Grenade Harness Master of the Signal Contemptor Mortis Deadnought – Pair of Twinlinked Las Cannons Apothecarion Detachment – (2) 2 Augury Scanners Legion Rapier Weapons Battery – 3 Graviton Cannon Legion Tactical squad – (17) – Legion Vexilla – Nuncio Vox – Artificer Armor – Power Axe Legion Tactical squad – (17) – Legion Vexilla – Nuncio Vox – Artificer Armor – Power Axe Sicaran Battle Tank – Sponson Lascannons – Ceramite Plating Heavy Support Squad – (9) Missile Launchers – Flak Missiles - Augury Scanner 1998 Seems like everything checks out fine. Thanks for your help Slipstream. Really, I do appreciate it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296419-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-3805439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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