L30n1d4s Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 A bit of an unsual combo, but I think one that has some real potential in a competitive list. Take 5-10 WG Bikers, all with PWs (some lances, some axes, some mauls) and attach an allied Cypher to them. Cypher let's the whole squad infilitrate, gives them Hit and Run, adds very solid firepower and close combat ability, and most importantly gives the whole squad the Shrouded USR. Now, turn 1, when your opponent shoots at them (as he almost inevitably will do, with a CC unit like this breathing down his neck), declare that you are jinking.... this means a 4+ cover save, combined with Shrouded, for a net 2+ cover save. Against BS4 Bolter fire, that means that your opponent has a 66% chance to hit, 33% chance to wound (against T5), and a 16% chance of failed cover save .... that means you need, on average, 27 bolter shots to cause a single wound. Against BS4 Plasma fire, that means that your opponent has a 66% chance to hit, 84% chance to wound (against T5), and a 16% chance of failed cover save .... that means you need, on average, 11 plasma shots to cause a single wound. So, even against low AP weapons, your WG should have a very solid chance of surviving enemy shooting turn 1. Though Jinking means they can only Snap shot next turn, that is fine since their primary goal is to charge into close combat. With a 12" move and 2D6" assault range + Infilitrate + turn 1 12" move, they should easily be within range to get stuck in with their intended target. Combine this with a Drop Pod of Grey Hunters with a Wolf Banner landing withing 6" (for some "softening up" shooting and an extra +1A from the Wolf Banner) and your WG Bikers will each get 5 PW attacks on the charge. If you are using the Forces of the Great Wolf Detachment (from Champions of Fenris), then all your WG Bikers as WS5, so hitting most targets ons 3+s. If you are close enough to the target, Cypher can stay with the squad, since his 6" move shouldn't limit them too much, but if it is an issue he can simply break off from them and join the newly arrived Grey Hunters (from the drop pod) and let the WG Bikers charge in on their own (he has already done his job of infiltrating them close to the enemy and giving them Shrouded to get a 2+ cover save turn 1, before they charge). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Cypher slows them down horribly. The entire unit can only move at the pace of it's slowest man, so that's 6" a turn bikers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Cypher slows them down horribly. The entire unit can only move at the pace of it's slowest man, so that's 6" a turn bikers. Wrong. First of all, any model of a unit can move it's full distance as long as coherency is not broken. So Cypher can move 6 and one bike can move 12 and the rest of the bikes form a line. But that is not the point. After they infiltrated and survived one shooting phase, Cypher leaves the unit because bikes can now do their stuff in melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 But it does involve using a Dark Angel. An outcast, yes. A cool badass, yes. But a Calibanite dress wearer nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 No Wolf proud of it would allow a Lion between his files!! Rules wise is't a very good combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Cypher let's the whole squad infilitrate This has been hotly debated with no consensus achieved. In other words there are a fair few opponents who simply won't let you do this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 No Wolf proud of it would allow a Lion between his files!! Rules wise is't a very good combo. Then why play him as Cypher. Make an awesome Space Wolf gunslinger and use him as a counts-as. As for the infiltrate. I agree, the rules are iffy and my personal opinion is that it is not possible and many tourneys won't allow it. However, in friendly games rules can be stretched a bit so try it out there. I wouldn't have a problem with it (in a friendly game) ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3803852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Cypher let's the whole squad infilitrate This has been hotly debated with no consensus achieved. In other words there are a fair few opponents who simply won't let you do this. how is this debated when the Independent Character rules specifically say you can't? but i don't want to derail the conversation, just send me to the link where this is being discussed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3804204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Cypher let's the whole squad infilitrate This has been hotly debated with no consensus achieved. In other words there are a fair few opponents who simply won't let you do this. how is this debated when the Independent Character rules specifically say you can't? but i don't want to derail the conversation, just send me to the link where this is being discussed. While it's true that an independent character doesn't confer his special rules to a unit he joins, the infiltrate rule states that if one model in the unit can infiltrate, then the entire unit can (which is why scouts pack leader doesn't prevent his unit from infiltrating or making a scout move, even though he doesn't have either rule). Cypher joins the unit in the deployment phase (as per the independent character rules that state an independent character may begin the game joined to a unit), meaning a model in the unit has infiltrate and thus the unit is deployed following the rules for infiltrate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3804220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 oh, i see, i misread it! yeah, completely legal. hmmm, Cypher.............. infiltrating a unit of 8 Iron Priests................ with 32 Cyberwolves................ that then all split out on their own after first turn. wow! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3804287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The latest (in a long line) of discussion concerning ICs and Infiltrate is here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291805-shrike-terminators/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3804426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Dunno if this would work against me as i am bringing a Redeemer myself, and i know about the bit where they cant assault 1st turn if they infiltrate, means they might potentially have to eat 2 rounds of unjinkable crispyness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296443-wolf-guard-bikers-and-cypher/#findComment-3804457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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