Blast weapons vs no LoS models

[brother_contagion]

Something I know that happens often, but I can't remember if there's a rule for this or not, but I use Defilers with relative frequency and occasionally the blast covers guys that are out of line of sight (but not in cover) of the Defiler. Would the models out of LoS get a cover save or not? I don't have the rulebook with me atm so I can't check it.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

AFAIK (haven't got the book to hand right now), wounds cannot be allocated to models out of range and/or LoS, so if there are only models out of range/LoS to allocate wounds to, the wound pool is discarded, the wounds lost.

 

Example: 5 orks are in range/LoS, 2 are outside. 7 Wounds with AP 4 and no cover. 5 dead orks to the first 5 wounds, 2 wounds left in the wound pool get discarded.

[Squark]

I believe the Interrogator-Chaplain is correct, with the caveat that Barrage weapons bend the rules a tad, although being away from the book at the moment, I can't say exactly how. Still, those rules should be in the Special Rules section of the Main rulebook, which shouldn't be hard to find.

[Kristoff]

Yes, you can hit models out of LOS with a Blast Weapon.

 

From the last paragraph of the Blast rule, before Multiple Blasts:

Once the number of hits inflicted on the unit has been worked out, roll To Wound and save as normal. Remember that any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models from the attacking unit.

And, yes, unless the weapon says otherwise, Cover Saves should apply, as it is a model by model Save.

[brother_contagion]

Yes, you can hit models out of LOS with a Blast Weapon.

 

From the last paragraph of the Blast rule, before Multiple Blasts:

 

Once the number of hits inflicted on the unit has been worked out, roll To Wound and save as normal. Remember that any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models from the attacking unit.

And, yes, unless the weapon says otherwise, Cover Saves should apply, as it is a model by model Save.

Yes, that's what I though, but what kind of cover save would they get? The best possible (2+)? Determined by the type of terrain they're hiding behind (even though they technically have no cover)? Or should it be a 50/50 4+ cover save?

[Kristoff]

Yes, that's what I though, but what kind of cover save would they get? The best possible (2+)? Determined by the type of terrain they're hiding behind (even though they technically have no cover)? Or should it be a 50/50 4+ cover save?

Terrain or being obscured is the qualifications that are provided. You cannot use both together and are always supposed to use the best one. There are no rules I know of for, "Hah! You can't see me, but can still hit me!" Cover Saves, yet.

[brother_contagion]

So if they're not in cover, then they wouldn't get the save?

[Brother Casman]

If they're on or behind a terrain piece, they would get the cover save associated with that terrain piece - so a 4+ for ruins, for example.

[Eddie Orlock]

Unless there's text saying to draw line of sight from the centre of the template, as there has been for various barrage weapons, you draw line of sight from the barrel of the weapon and apply the usual tests for applicability of saves. Is the model sufficiently obscured? well, 100% is greater than any fraction less than unity, so yes, the model would get the associated cover save.

[Morollan]

I honestly don't know why GW felt the urge to muck around with the rules for cover, blasts, barrages etc in 7e. They worked perfectly fine in 6e and are a mess now.