Advice on a small contingent?

[Marshal Mattias]

Greetings to you, fellow champions in the Emperor's name.

I come to you as an emissary of the Renascibilitas Crusade of the Black Templars, and respectfully request your aid. Our crusade is re-building its strength and is beset by foul witches and heretics on all sides. As veterans of the third war for Armageddon, we once fought alongside members of the Order of the Argent Shroud in the battle for Helsreach, who showed such ferocity and Zeal in the face of insurmountable odds, that they left quite an impression on the Chapter at large. It is because of this that we invite you to join us in our Eternal Crusade, and bring fire to the enemies of mankind.

We await your response.

 

Faithfully,

 

Castellan Marakov of the Renascibilitas Crusade.

 

Imperator Vult.

 

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I desperately want to add some Sisters to my 'Witch-hunter' Black Templars. They already have a love of flamers and meltas and non-psyker inquisitors used for rooting out witches. I will start small, and hopefully grow a substantial allied force in time. For now, I intend to take Uriah Jacobus and a Ministorum priest to add some zealot and war hymns to my Crusader squads, but I really want to paint up a small Sisters squad to act as my rearguard for now. A five-strong squad would be ideal, and I can build from there as-and-when I can acquire new models.

 

I turn to you as the veterans of your Order, and ask for your wisdom on the following;

 

-How should I equip them?

-Is it worth 'loaning' them a rhino from my armoury?

-Can anyone give some tips on painting the AS colour scheme?

-Is it complete fluff-heresy to adjust the colours slightly to a more gun-metal look rather than silver, or to turn the white cloth to more cream/beige?

 

Thanks for any help you can offer! I hope this will be the beginning of a beautiful friendship between our two great forces :)

[*Furyou Miko]

For a small additional squad, a Heavy Flamer / Meltagun squad in an Immolator is a nice start, or bulking it out to ten strong and giving them a Repressor.

 

Your colour scheme wouldn't be too heretical - it's more like weathering than really changing the colour.

[tvih]

Repressor... pff, had forgotten about that, why'd you have to remind me?

Anyway, fancy seeing you here, Mattias I'm not sure if you've checked out my detachment thread here, as I've just started my Argent Shroud painting project. I'm not sure what kind of gunmetal-look you're after exactly, but for the silver just a silver spray + Nuln oil wash works wonders. Applying the wash all over the model tones down the silver, making it much more matte. Applying the wash only the crevasses and edges also looks good for those preferring a brighter look. Very easy to do yet nice-looking base to further work on in either case, in my opinion.

The cloth parts on the other hand are much like those of our Templars - white outside, red inside. Sadly I find red and white a pain to work with, but such are the obstacles we must deal with

As for equipping them, as Miko said Heavy Flamers and Melta guns are pretty solid choices. Though personally I tend to go double melta or double flamer, or more accurately would go flamer + heavy flamer if only I had the HF model(s) already. Especially once you start adding more squads, Sisters are even better than BT in MSU lists, as you can have two specials and a combi in a 5-man troop unit - or 4 specials and a combi in a fast attack Dominion squad, among other things (though combis need to be converted for the most part). Giving them transports is of course a good idea, especially if going on the offensive. Rhinos work, though Immolators offer very good value as well as they're only 20 points more than a Rhino, if you're not averse to getting some at least at a later date.

[*Furyou Miko]

The reason I say to split their role is that you can't take heavy flamers on normal BT infantry squads, and there are a lot of people who will argue that the template rule just means "templates of the same type" and not "all templates" as it says.

[Marshal Mattias]

Hey :)

 

Yeah, I stumbled across your technique just moments after making my post :P

 

I see the value in the suggestion of the M/HF combo, versatility is useful, but I'm not sure if it is right for my objective-holder unit or not. I should clarify that my intention is to run them in a list with a couple of combat-ready landraiders and some drop pod nasties. I don't really want this unit to see too much action, but I want them to hold their ground. Also it needs to stay super cheap points-wise. What about a heavy bolter and a flamer? Then I can stick them in cover while putting some shots out, and I have a handy assault-deterrent. That makes the unit 75 points and well within budget. Otherwise I think I would enjoy putting them in an immolator with Multimelta turrets, and giving them flamers to run with, but that's starting to eat up points. This unit should be a low target-priority for the enemy, when dealing with honour guard/LRC/Vindicator/ironclad, but I don't want them to be useless, they should still be contributing some firepower I think. Has anyone run that sort of set-up?

[Naminé]

Heavy bolter and 2x stormbolters will let them sit and poke at range, but long range fire is a weakness of the Sororitas Codex and something the Templars could handle better :p

Personally, If you want cheap I would recommend double flamer in a Rhino (with dozer) which comes to 115 points, gives you 2 objective secured assets that can stay in and plough through cover, and also perform drive-bys. If you have a few more points to spend I would advise upgrading to a heavy flamer/flamer combo.

[*Furyou Miko]

Ah.

 

Objective holding... not the Sisters' strongpoint. For a sit back and shoot unit, your best bet would just be a Heavy Bolter and a couple of extra Sisters instead of a special weapon. Storm Bolters are a waste of points at any range - you're basically paying for an extra shot at long range and when assaulting, and for this you pay five points.

 

Dozer Blades are more useful.

 

To make Sisters harder to shift than Marines, what you want is 'more Sisters' and a Priest. But then your 'small allied objective-holder' starts to eat up a lot of your points (Until you have seven of them, Sisters aren't significantly cheaper than Marines, points-wise - that's the point at which you can afford a single extra Sister for the same number of points as your Tac squad).

 

On the subject of Priests... Oh, gods. Priests in Crusader squads. 25 points that is worth it whether you use him as a cheap invun save or a combat buffer. Using him as a beatstick requires a little more investiture in points, though.

[Marshal Mattias]

Thanks guys, sounds like a heavy bolter in a small unit isn't going to be very productive. I think then that I would prefer to just go flamer/heavy-flamer and hide them in cover. Then the enemy will have a hard time trying to remove them. Once I can add an immolator with MM to my collection, they'll make great cargo for sallying-forth and taking out some transports, I presume?

[*Furyou Miko]

Sisters benefit from cover even less than Marines, though. ^^; Because we're 3+/6++, cover usually only even gives us a +1 bonus to our saves vs heavy weapons.

 

Sallying forth, though? That, they are very good at.

[Jacinda]

If you just want Sisters for the priests, I understand. You can get them from other codices but the Sisters of Battle version may carry Litinies of Faith for 100% war hymn success.

 

If you are going to keep them off the front line ...

Take a plain Canoness and put her on a quad-gun. Join with her 5 Sisters to take wounds for her.

 

If you want to use them effectively ...

Canoness with Rosarius and power weapon (95)

Command Squad with Hospitlar, Sacred Banner of the Order Militant and 3 Heavy Flamers (145)

Ministroum Priest with Litanies of Faith (40)

Battle Sister Squad with 2 meltagins in a rhino (120)

Total = 400 points

 

The BSS should be aggressive, moving forward quickly and hunting for an armored target. If nothing else, kill a transport and help reduce the enemy's mobility.

Eveyone else joins together near the middle of the table where that 12" bubble of +1 attack for all friendly units can do the most good. I think you will also be pleased with the resilience this version of the command squad can have.

 

On the other hand, if you just want a rear holder with access to priests, you might consider an IG blob. Sisters play best at short range in the middle of the table.

[Marshal Mattias]

Well then, that's even better! My Templar lists are no-holds-barred, all-out, in-your-face, hyphenated-clichés to-the-max. Everything is pushing forward or dropping on your head, basically. The sisters should fit in perfectly :)

 

I cannot lie, when I read about the benefits from running priests in a unit (much more useful than a chaplain), I was excited. But, it also gives me a chance to try my hand at painting and playing some Sisters, which I've wanted to do ever since reading Helsreach. I just need to rethink how to utilise the squad. I've got them stuck in my head in the same box as Neophyte Sniper squads or Las/Plas Crusaders, ie a small fire support base of limited survivability. Also, with the dawn of maelstrom, having a 'home' objective is less useful to me. I tend to push them all towards the mid/enemy half, so I need to start thinking about manoeuvrability.

I could do with some tank-busting support, as my lists usually rely on a smattering of short-ranged firepower, while with my ironclad and crusaders, I'm in no shortage of burn-y infantry smashing goodness. So maybe...

 

Uriah Jacobus (his fearless/counterattack bubble is great, plus he brings zealot and war hymns with a buy-one-get-one-free special).

 

Ministorum Priest, Litanies of faith. (To ride in a scary squad who just need a buff - Honour Guard perhaps).

 

5-Battle Sisters, Combi-Melta, 2x Meltaguns, Immolator with TL-Multi-Melta.

 

All that comes in at 290pts.

 

I get my Zealots in there, plus their bonus effects, and I get a shiny squad of tank busters. They will be able to rush up the table using my Land Raider Crusaders for cover, then hop out and blow everything to hell before using their ObSec to claim an objective.

(Also, don't tell my wallet, but it leaves the door open for me to pick up more bits further down the line, adding in extra sisters and making a couple of squads. Maybe an Exorcist too!)

[*Furyou Miko]

Don't you get Zealot as part of your chapter tactics?

[Marshal Mattias]

Don't you get Zealot as part of your chapter tactics?

Oh wow, that would be amazing! No, we have Adamantium Will and Crusader, which certainly have their uses but they feel a little lax. We dominate challenges though, gaining re-rolls to hit and the rending special rule for the length of the challenge. But for a big CC squad coming out a land raider, you can imagine how valuable that hatred+hymns can be! Now I just need to find a way to get 'Fleet' without having to always take Helbrecht!

[*Furyou Miko]

Ah. Fleet. The problem with Fleet is that unless it's specified that the character gives it to their unit, including a model without the rule prevents the rest of the unit from using it.

 

Yeah, I can see how powerful it can be. heh. Still, the Blessed Banner's +1 Attack is very nice. If only Jacobus could take an SCS... heh.

[Marshal Mattias]

True, that is a horrifyingly powerful bonus to large units. Makes the Emperor's Champion more useful, for starters. I wonder if the attacks stack with the Honour Guard Banner? *EVIL*

 

So, does that Melta-Madness squad sound sensible?

[tvih]

The Sacred Banner is nice, but it's annoying that it is limited to the Sororitas Command Squad in terms of being able to take it. Huh. Come to think of it though, is there any general rule preventing multiple +1A bonuses? I can't recall such a thing but just wondering, because the Honour Guard's Chapter Banner gives +1A to the unit carrying it, and then if the Sisters Sacred Banner were within 12", that'd be another +1A! That'd be 6 attacks per model on the charge for the HG! Similarly could make for some pretty scary Crimson Fists terminators if you used Kantor to give any CF units with 12" +1A, and then +1A from Sacred Banner. 4 base attacks with a hammer. Throw in some of those Ministorum Priests (or Jacobus for additional Counter-attack) and... Holy . If this can actually be done I think I just broke the game again

[Jacinda]

So, does that Melta-Madness squad sound sensible?

Yes. This is one of the preferred ways to run them since they have a solid punch with a moderate point cost. It is the basic unit for MSU Immolator spam you will often see.

[Marshal Mattias]

If this can actually be done I think I just broke the game again

*high-five*

Okay, I think I have my troops choice sorted. And I get to have an immolator! Exciting. Now, I wonder if I can justify basically painting it black, with removable doors...

[*Furyou Miko]

Not with Argent Shroud, heh.

[Marshal Mattias]

Okay, maybe: white hull, metal detail, magnetised AS doors with red/metal detail, seperate templar magnetised doors with black/red. Dual purpose!

[tvih]

White as primary vehicle color? You, sir, are braver than I...

[Marshal Mattias]

How hard can it be? *lolz*

 

I may try it, spraying a white undercoat... Then give it a good wash and hope for the best? I don't know... Probably a terrible idea :P

 

Still, the temptation to have a bad-ass white rhino...

[Eddie Orlock]

White as primary vehicle color? You, sir, are braver than I...

I did it on my Eldar. I'm mostly recovered now *twitch*

[tvih]

Spraying white... brushing white... oh the nightmares

[Marshal Mattias]

Haha, maybe I'll pop next door and ask the White Scars for some tips ;)