When did this start?

[Kol Saresk]

I admit I am at loss. What fluff justification is there for the Black Ultramarines and the Ezekyle Calgar stuff? I don't mean this as an attack, I am actually tryin to understand the point of view but everyone who has it seems rather reluctant to reveal how this view came about. So in an effort to gain knowledge, would someone explain to me how this belief came about and what fluff supports it?

[Forté]

New to me. It's not one of the alternative Heresy things is it?

[Kol Saresk]

No, apparently it is a fan opinion of the current background and is completely new to me as well.

 

EDIT: So no one feels singled out, I have seen multiple people expressing this opinion. Once is an opinion. Twice is a coincidence. Thrice is a thing.

[Slips]

Maybe because like the ultramarines, the Black Legion are being toted as the "poster boys" of the Chaos Space Marines Faction and similarly like Calgar - who is essentially Robute Guilliman Reincarnated in the eyes of some; Abaddon is being seen as such in respect to Horus?

This is conjecture on my part trying to understand it as well since this is also new to me.

Obviously there are similarities :

Both having vast numbers : almost all UM successors essentially being UM(1), UM(2), etc and being able to represent nearly any Legion/Chapture due to this (thanks Ward...) and the Black Legion being similar in that they encompass every specialization CSM have access to. Noise Marines are EC only? Well some of them joined the Black Legion. Plague Marines being DG only? Guess what! etc.

Both being the focal point (for better or worse) of their respective Factions.

Honestly though, I pay no heed to those that spout such things and regard it as nonsense and grasping at straws. I'd prefer (especially with the negative cluster-f that the internet can be sometimes) to sit happy and ignorant* to all these claims and remain positive and upbeat about the hobby because negativity breeds only more negativity.

*I REALLY hate ignorance and to want to willfully subject myself to it should give you an idea about how discouraging this stuff can be sometimes.

Edit: been reading a rather depressing (but good!) manga by the name of Skyhigh...might explain my rather negative mood when writing this... @_@

[Kol Saresk]

That seems like a logical explanation, except those things have been hallmarks of the background longer than I've known of its existence. Seems rather odd that's popping up right now.

[Slips]

It might be due to the release of the Talon of Horus. Up till that point, nowhere have I ever seen it mentioned. With the book(s) actually giving the Black Legion depth, I wouldn't put it past "negative nancy's" to try and do their damnest to find a way to make fun of the "new cool thing" and by extension, those who actually enjoyed the book.

 

P.S still reading more Skyhigh....still in a rather downer mood :p going to try and hopefully sleep this off.

[Kol Saresk]

True. I guess I want to believe this is an actual opinion and not just a "I hate the new shiny toy because it wasn't what I wanted" thing.

[Slips]

I do too but, it doesn't seem to be the case unless I see something to the contrary :\

[Tenebris]

Well the Black Legion was the poster legion so far in the chaos codex books. That, and they usually allowed a player to field all cult units so until the 3.5 book it was the "generic" chaos force. Interesting enough the people favoured Iron Warriors and Night Lords until the 4th book and not even the golden age of the 3.5 did anything to favour the Black Legion.

 

It all begun with the 4th edition codex, here the Black Legion was the norm and the rest was an exception, a cult. With that book the personality of the chaos legions eroded into something streamlined and universal, almost codex like, so it did not help that the book even had a colour scheme for Cult Troops in a Black Legion army...

 

The Black Legion was never interesting to people, or at least in my experience it was never, ever, the first choice for a chaos army colour scheme. Even with the supplement in 6th edition the Black Legion is still not on par with the following that the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers or Night Lords have so if there is some hype built around it now it is only due to the release of Talon of Horus.

 

I expect a lot of new projects wearing Black Legion colours here on the board as well as in general terms. But I think that even the personality imbued by ADB's book will still not convince people to don the black. That is the point, they were never the ultrasmurfs of chaos, for the Ultramarines had ample coverage in terms of fluff, books and rules, the Black Legion was simply one of the many (and the least played bar Alpha Legion) of the Undivided legions. 

 

In my club alone there are people who are nearing their thirties and they all have an Ultramarines painted SM army. If there were some Chaos legions it is either Iron Warriors or Word Bearers, but never Black Legion. Same template when I go around at tournaments. You see countless iterations of Ultramarines but I have maybe seen one or two Black Legion armies being played. As I have said, it was never a tempting choice for first, it is a "bastardized" traitor legion, not a pure one, and second it never had the charisma that the other traitor legion have in abundance. 

[Kol Saresk]

I can get why they weren't interesting. I might have bought the book, but I'm a Night Lord first and a Word Bearer second. There is no third. I'm not a Black Legion fan. So I could see how one Legion getting an in-depth series could cause issues for those whose Legion has not been expanded upon. It just seems a weird leap in logic to go from "The Black Legion is becoming unique" to "The Black Legion shall consume All! For All is the Legion and the Legion is All!"*

 

*Note: Very extreme exaggeration.

[Tenebris]

The point is that until recently the Red Corsairs had much more charisma as an Undivided and bastard army than the Black Legion. Huron was well explained by the various snippets of lore about the Badab War. His goals were clear from day one and the colour scheme diverse enough to make it special in the eyes of the players.

 

As I have said, the Black Legion is receiving an update in the form of fluff. Things are being explained and trough them I think many more things pertaining the other traitor legions will be revealed too. ADB is making a monumental effort to imbue some charisma in this long neglected army which was usually seen as the beat stick of the chaos legions. This might irate some fans of the other legions but in truth this passage of fluff was long overdue. 40k is evolving as we learn more about the universe and the main protagonists, Abaddon being the second most important "human" figure other than the Emperor requires a lot of pen work especially since we have thirteen Black Crusades to have them explained and the whole concept of "Legion Wars".

 

There is only one thing that made the Black Legion unique, and that thing is that they have a goal beyond the Eye, beyond Terra. Until recently that goal was the Long War... and it ended here, nowadays we are simply learning anew what the Long War means... 

[Balthamal]

From my own perspective, my opinion along those lines came about from the utter blandness that was peddled by GW regarding them both. All we heard about the smurfs was "they are so the bestest ever, I mean they were the only ones left after the heresy right! That MUST mean nobody could beat them!". Up until the 5th ed book, they were utterly spanked by the nids, everything they knew was completely ineffective and they got punished for it, then along comes the whole "Calgar won a great victory because of his genius bla bla bla. Whilst Gav and Alessio threaded throughout the 4th ed chaos book the whole "Abaddon does this, Abaddon does that, he got plague marines and noise marines and bezerkers and rubric marines and all this cool stuff" making it out to be some sort of divine destiny that he will inevitably own it all because he's the heir of Horus, nothing was said HOW he managed it. Of course now it's out there that Abaddon got his power by wandering the Eye of Terror for centuries, that his closest brothers command Rubric marines and noise marines and Berserkers and he's swinging around the most potent daemon sword in the material galaxy. 

 

Bottom line, I'm more inclined to take BL material over codex fluff as a proper version for depth reasons if nothing else

[Kol Saresk]

@Tenebris: Yeah I was just saying that I was and still am one of those people who see the Black Legion as..... Not really bland just lacking in depth and focus an that even after the depth is explored and a focus given, I still won't be a "Black Legion fan". But at the same time I wouldn't go running around and say the Night Lords are losing their fluff to the Black Legion either.

[hornywingythingy]

I have to admit I also have never seen the black legion as at all interesting, they seem bland to paint and bland in the fluff. TBH the supplement didn't help, just reinforced their mediocrity. Been playing years and years, and TBH bl suffer from what CSM have been suffering with, dumbing down and making even less interesting. Hell, at least ultras get good rules, bl don't even get that! (all imho of course)

[Kol Saresk]

But would you say that they are starting to consume the fluff to the point that (again, exaggerated)"All Must Be Black Legion!", or that as the poster child of Chaos on the GW side of things, they just happen to be reflective of the current rulestate of the very faction they're supposed to represent?

[hornywingythingy]

Well no, because GW are actually putting Out rules for other warbands, which I'd imagine sold better than bl, they were certainly better received. I'd not be surprised to see a reversal for the next CSM dex and our own form of warband tactics come back. TBH outside of the codexes I don't read much black library fluff, as I live with a writer and most of its pretty poorly written, read legion a while back and then she critiqued it, it wasn't pretty (then again that books a mess anyhow)

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, I think I get what you're saying. If I'm reading you right, the whole Black Legion=Ultramarine thing isn't that the Black Legion are a direct parallel to the Ultramarines, but rather that GW hasn't done much to make them interesting beyond the "Abaddon is the Antichrist and this is his Legion" schpiel and instead ruleswise, they've made the Black Legion look even less interesting?

[Emperors Immortals]

I had a very long and dry analysis of 40k background material in the post-digital age of mass critique (ala ID4chan, which im a fan of), BUT ill boil it down to one word.

 

Jealousy.

 

Its beautiful to me - want to understand why CSM are not unified, why the legion wars happened or the struggle Abaddon went through to prove his banner was worth rallying behind? Read the threads for the last 4 years.

 

Why has the BL got a bigger piece of action then my long established Legion? We were here before them! They only have 12 failed daytrips to talk about, we burned /distilled /infected/ terrified an entire planetary system TO DEATH whenever we wanted and slaughtered millions and we get no love.

 

And thats about it really - 20 years of CSM being ignored by GW HQ as teh Imperiums afterbirth and you have a hostile fanbase loyal to a nebulous cause - any firm background for the BL was bound to be met with catcalls and derision. I do not envy A D-B, but I do tip my hat to him.

 

I hope that this is clear enough to understand because its an interesting and unwarranted phenomona to me as well.

[Kol Saresk]

I had a very long and dry analysis of 40k background material in the post-digital age of mass critique (ala ID4chan, which im a fan of), BUT ill boil it down to one word.

 

Jealousy.

 

Its beautiful to me - want to understand why CSM are not unified, why the legion wars happened or the struggle Abaddon went through to prove his banner was worth rallying behind? Read the threads for the last 4 years.

 

Why has the BL got a bigger piece of action then my long established Legion? We were here before them! They only have 12 failed daytrips to talk about, we burned /distilled /infected/ terrified an entire planetary system TO DEATH whenever we wanted and slaughtered millions and we get no love.

 

And thats about it really - 20 years of CSM being ignored by GW HQ as teh Imperiums afterbirth and you have a hostile fanbase loyal to a nebulous cause - any firm background for the BL was bound to be met with catcalls and derision. I do not envy A D-B, but I do tip my hat to him.

 

I hope that this is clear enough to understand because its an interesting and unwarranted phenomona to me as well.

Honestly, I was just hoping the reasoning would be more mature and have more substance to than "If I don't have a toy then no one else should either!" It just seems so........ "Petty" strikes me as too strong a word but it's the only thing I can come up with.

 

I will give one person this, at least he is just acting out of a fear for his Chosen Legion being swallowed up. That, I can understand. If the Night Lords ever became the "Murderers within the Black Legion", I'd say "Nope." and walk away.

[A D-B]

A few reasons, in context.

 

This will be long.

 

• It's not new.

It's not all that new. I've seen it a little less often recently, actually, but that might be because I tend to post here more often than anywhere else these days, in my bid to cut down on forum time. The B&C is better at avoiding abject negativity than many other places, not because it's modded into an "ALL PLAY NICE" system, but because posters are generally better informed here. And, crucially, I don't sling that as an insult to anywhere else. There seem to be fewer players on here just starting out; more into 40K purely for the background; and fewer labouring under the yoke of common memes and tropes. People talk here, rather than assume and berate.

 

When I first started talking about the Black Legion on my blog, one of the very first comments called them Chaos Ultramarines, and said they were boring and "vanilla". That was over a year ago, and even then it was far from the first time I'd seen it.

 

Which is interesting, really, as the Black Legion are the polar opposite of Chaos's "vanilla". They're not the "average" or "bland" Legion, they're the Skittles of Chaos. Every colour in the rainbow, mixed together at will. But that's not always easy to grasp or presented well. See below.

 

 

• Poster children are always popular, but a counter-culture always rises up to tear them down.

For better or worse, there's no surprise in this one. We all do it and it happens with everything, with and without rationality. You get it with fans of music genres despising pop music - and in my teenage years there was no purer war than making pop music fans understand their tastes were worthless and that I, with all my Iron Maiden and Metallica patches, was apparently oh-so-educated by comparison. In basketball, people despise the Los Angeles Lakers. In football, it's Manchester United. With technology, it's Apple and its consumers. With Space Marines, it's the Ultramarines who get whipped. Among Chaos Marines, it's the Black Legion.

 

Whatever's popular (or frequently advertised) will face opposition from people that dislike its popularity for various reasons. Some of those reasons will be good, some will be bad. It's rarely as simple as "jealousy" - people don't hate the Lakers because they're jealous of all the breaks the Lakers get, they hate the Lakers because it's unfair that they get those breaks above other teams (significantly more money; referee calls, etc.). That's not jealousy, that's rational objection. But then... not all of the referee calls are unfair, and people still act like they are. Self-fulfilling prophecies are the name of the game in these deals. You think X, so you start seeing X even in situations where it might've been a little bit Y. People don't hate Apple because they're jealous, people hate Apple because they think they see a truth that Apple fans are blind to.

 

I despise the Los Angeles Lakers. To my bones. To my marrow. To my very core. Everything they do is cast in the light of that bias. But, sadly, they play some beautiful basketball sometimes, and many of the players I loathe the most have been brilliant on the court. Putting fences on your own biases is a seriously difficult thing to do. People tend not to try, or to assume they've already got a handle on it. No one knows when they don't, which is the point.

 

From other angles, people object to things they don't like (or see as boring/unworthy) getting more face time than the things they prefer. Sometimes that's a fair point. That's time which, they reason, could be better spent investing in improving other things. And sometimes that's a fair point, too.

 

Which all leads us to:

 

 

• People post to further their agenda, not necessarily to represent the truth.

I'm fond of that Qui-Gon Jinn quote: "Your focus determines your reality." Everyone ultimately posts their perceptions, but there's also the aspect of posting for an agenda. That's not to say it's a finger-steepling, villain-cackling Agenda of Doom, but if you hit Post on a block of writing, you're doing it to convey a message. And generally in lore discussions that message is some stripe of "I see what you're saying, but have you considered X instead of Y?" to varying degrees of depth, insight, and politeness. 

 

And there are few riper, easier targets to express overall dissatisfaction than poster children. They're the perfect targets. They give a popular view to rebel against, and usually enough information to mock. Worse (gasp!) they're what younger fans are exposed to and what people new to the hobby dare enjoy, as if that makes them somehow shallow, pointless, or like training wheels before a fan finds a "real" faction. That's absolutely stupid, but it lingers. "Noob" is one of the entrenched insults of our age.

 

 

• Agendas can be poisonous to debate, though. Many fandoms are often guilty of this.

Some people don't want to discuss something, they want other people to realise they're right. One of the most common examples of agenda-furthering is the breaking of the Legions. Detractors of the concept often use it to imply "There are no Legions at all, ever, the end, GW sucks" and lament the loss of identity. I understand the loss of rules (and people occasionally take my preference for greater choice, which would represent warband variety and mono-Legion themes better, as arguments against any Legion-specific rules at all, when they're really the same damn thing...) but I'm specifically talking about identity beyond the rules. The exact opposite is true. Legion identity matters more than ever to many Chaos Marines. Mono-Legion warbands take fierce pride in their identities and unique skills. Just because it's not all as perfectly organised as in the Heresy, with rank upon rank of neatly ordered men in armour (spoilers, it never was anyway, plenty of Space Marines never/barely met their own primarch) - doesn't mean the Legions' identities are gone. Their organisation is shattered - except when it's not. Their strength is diluted - except when it's not, when someone brings them together. And so on.

 

Many Chaos Marines may not care about their Legions, or have moved on to embrace specific aspects, philosophies, or whatever else within or without their Legion's ideals. But many (the majority, perhaps) are perfectly happy being Word Bearers or World Eaters, as discussed in that mega-post back here. Some players are taking choice to mean dilution, and that's a misconception that no amount of discussion really seems to help with.

 

 

• Not everyone reads or has access to all of the material.

In this case, the Black Legion's lore is piecemeal and ultimately spread out as snippets across almost three decades. You can say that about any faction, but the Black Legion have had it more than most given their role and importance, and they're ultimately more difficult to explain than the concepts that have worked so well for other Legions.

 

People have different preferences for consuming 40K lore. For some folks, that means ignoring the novels (there's that old trope in some corners that Black Library is still nothing more than Dan, Graham, and Sandy, or that all the novels by 50+ authors suck because they've read a few and didn't like them.) For others, it means they weren't around for past editions that are sacred to other people, who in turn can't imagine seeing the setting without that knowledge. Some people look at 3.5 and pity those who came afterwards, as if they missed the halcyon days of majesty, and Chaos was terrible before and after. Other people (say, like me) look at 3.5 like every edition: a lot of good, some bad, move along as normal. 

 

My primary lore sources are Andy Chambers' writing in White Dwarf and Codex: Chaos (around 3rd Edition); talks with Gav Thorpe, Alan Merrett, Alan Bligh, and John French; along with the glorious Codex Imperialis by Rick Priestley and Andy Chambers (of 2nd Edition fame). I have a lot more, and I've delved into a lot of Rogue Trader stuff for the early Black Legion Series, but those are my principal sources. And I say this as someone who absolutely adores those sources above any other: a lot of the "The lore sucks now" stuff is nonsense and rose-tinted memory. And yes, you have periods where a previously shadowed point of lore gets some limelight. I'm not an idiot - I know there was a renegade Chapter theme in the 4th Edition codex, and I know there was (plainly erroneously) a Mark of Chaos Undivided in the game for about half an edition, which people took as "incorrect" that it's been ignored before and after. But in terms of Chaos lore, the cold truth is that very, very little has changed. It just shows up in a variety of new places.

 

 

• They're easily misunderstood, with people attributing traits to them that they don't really have.

It's easy to see them as the "generic" Chaos Marines, which does them an injustice, but that's what happens to popular factions that get put on all the posters. From my blog, where this comment came up politely and interestingly, a while ago: 

 

"It’s hard to reply without saying too much, but where the Ultramarines are “generic” Space Marines (as much as I love them, that’s not an insult – they are 95% of the template for the concept itself, which in turn is one of the things I love most about their implementation), the Black Legion aren’t the generic template for the Chaos Marines. They’re not the “default” Chaos Marines in the same way. Instead, they’re everything about Chaos. The best and worst of it; the best and worst of every single Legion. You can point to an Ultramarine and say “That’s a Space Marine”. You can’t do that with a Black Legionnaire, and say “That’s a Chaos Marine”. Uh, is he a former Son of Horus? A Word Bearer exploring his faith in a new way? A Renegade newly sworn to the Black? A Thousand Son sorcerer? A guy who forgot his original Legion completely? A Khorne Berzerker? There’s no “generic” Black Legionnaire. Former Sons of Horus are as defined and unique as any other Marine in the Legion. Which is part of the appeal for me, too. The variety, and the insane tensions it brings."

 

But that doesn't translate well into a single-sentence blurb. Even "The arch-traitors from Horus's gene-seed" doesn't translate as well as the themes of the World Eaters, Thousand Sons, etc. etc. because the other Legions aren't all that broadly defined - they're focused on a couple of aspects and elements, embodying them.

 

The Black Legion is a kitchen of ingredients to make whatever you want, but that's often less compelling to some folks than being given a really great meal. And understandably so.

 

Now, none of this is perfectly accurate, because the Black Legion does have its own vibe, and that vibe is largely "success" and "hating more than the others" and, above all, "the embodiment of the Chaos Marine concept", because in a feudal system of warlords and warbands, Abaddon is Genghis Khan. He's done it better than any other, and for a much longer period of time. There's a lot of narrative depth in that.

 

Which leads us to:

 

• The Black Legion hasn't had particularly 'well-received-online' lore in a long time. Which means: "memes".

I'll be brief, as this point is fairly obvious. It's not a secret that a lot of online discussion about the Black Legion revolves around arguing over the many memes attributed to them. The failures" of Abaddon. The Legion that's supposedly the most successful and feared, but with little evidence - incidents of being told without being shown. The Thirteenth Black Crusade and the endless wars over what really happened and how it really ended.

 

Very little has countered that with any success, so far. People aren't idiots. If they've got very little to go on, then it's not always their fault for assuming stuff. My assumptions are constantly being challenged the more I talk/write/learn about the lore, as I'm sure everyone's are (or, in fairness, should be). It's one of the reasons I sometimes cringe at being quoted from 4-5 years ago. I read those quotes occasionally and think "Damn, I had a pretty incomplete grasp of that at the time..." or "I phrased that badly..." or whatever.

 

 

• Some posters are generally negative presences (not necessarily negative people), or provide a course of generally negative opinion.

 

The poster you're referring to without naming names is an almost legendarily negative one. I like him immensely and don't believe anyone should be collared into playing nice in a playground as long as they're not screwing over the other folks, but take 100 posts by that poster, at random. 80 of them will be brief and entirely negative, or utterly pessimistic. Take another 100, and another 80 will be the same. Several posters are like that here, there, and everywhere. People are people. Plus, it's the internet.

 

And while that doesn't mean anyone should be dismissed out of hand, or that negativity has no place, it's worth considering that opinions aren't formed or expressed in a vacuum. If someone's displeased with the current lore, the current edition, the current rules, and their current codex, then you've got to take that on board with their comments. They may not be posting to be objective and further debate. They may be expressing their dissatisfaction in the knowledge they're in a place where it's perfectly cool to do so; where they can righteously vent steam and be reasonably sure at least some people will agree. Again, nothing wrong with that, but always worth considering. Some people listen. Some people wait to talk. Some people inform, and hope it adds to the discussion. Some people tell, then expect you to understand. Almost everyone does all of the above at one point or another, but some people tend to bend a certain way more than the others. 

[Kol Saresk]

Okay, see I guess I avoid places like 4dchan and Warseer and other, more notorious forums, that I was never really that exposed to the more "negative" aspects of the fandom beyond the occasional blurb that made its way here. So when I started seeing it pop up a couple of weeks ago, I had no idea what to think of it and figured "Maybe this is just someone on the other side of the fence". And while Loesh is new(er) to the fluff, I believe he has a legitimate opinion in that with the background being added and the common(and unjustified in my opoinion) belief that the Crimson Slaughter has supplanted the Word Bearers, he fears that it may come to the Black Legion encompassing everything there is about Chaos Space Marines to the point that more unique factions like the Emperor's Children become nothing.

And I like that guy you mentioned too. He has a great sense of humor a bit of the time. But then he has his..... "moments' I think I shall call them..... where it is borderline difficult to tell what exactly he is saying and I am pretty sure some of the less forgiving admins would label it as "trolling" while the more considerate among us would term it "aggressively stating their opinion with a serious flair of sarcasm".

And then as you said, there are those who simply make a statement and then expect everyone else to understand them. While I am sure I have done the same thing, I have to admit that from the other side of the fence it creates this hole of lacking information and when the mind does not know something, it will fill in the gap with various beliefs and conceptions to explain away the gap and none of may be right with very few being pretty.

[hornywingythingy]

Okay, I think I get what you're saying. If I'm reading you right, the whole Black Legion=Ultramarine thing isn't that the Black Legion are a direct parallel to the Ultramarines, but rather that GW hasn't done much to make them interesting beyond the "Abaddon is the Antichrist and this is his Legion" schpiel and instead ruleswise, they've made the Black Legion look even less interesting?

Pretty much for me, CSM fluff in the rulebooks and the few bl I have read recently have continued to make them less interesting, if such a thing is possible! In a similar vein to ultras (who's rules I'd probably use if I did a loyalist army, cos they are actually good) but that could be tied to my dissatisfaction with the hobby in General and CSM in particular, I'm just not enjoying them, even when I face roll an opponent, or even in a close game. I even tried highlander (good format) but forging that narrative didn't make it more fun!

 

I guess I have always thought of them as dull, never encountered anything to make my opinion of them change.

 

Also, @ ADB, my comment about black library fluff wasn't meant as a dig, just imho, it's really not my cup of tea, and the examples I have read (none of yours btw, never read any of your work) really seemed stuck in the past with Mary sue esque characters, poor female representstion, heavy reliance on God level interventions, and erratic pacing. I like space opera, it's not my favourite, but for example the thrown books from the starwars series are awesome. Again, sorry if I did cause offence, that wasn't my intent.

[A D-B]

 

Also, @ ADB, my comment about black library fluff wasn't meant as a dig, just imho, it's really not my cup of tea, and the examples I have read (none of yours btw, never read any of your work) really seemed stuck in the past with Mary sue esque characters, poor female representstion, heavy reliance on God level interventions, and erratic pacing. I like space opera, it's not my favourite, but for example the thrown books from the starwars series are awesome. Again, sorry if I did cause offence, that wasn't my intent.

 

 

No worries, dude - I'd only read Kol's post when I embarked on that mega-post, so that sidebar wasn't specifically aimed at your comments. Promise.

 

Besides, people are 100% free to choose where they get their lore - I'd never be offended at that.

[Vesper]

So the realease of The Talon of Horus made people shift from "Lol, Failbaddon, no arms, lol" to "Marysue Calgabaddon" in a matter of weeks ?

Interesting. You'll never stop fascinating me, Internet.
 

The Black Legion was never interesting to people, or at least in my experience it was never, ever, the first choice for a chaos army colour scheme. Even with the supplement in 6th edition the Black Legion is still not on par with the following that the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers or Night Lords have so if there is some hype built around it now it is only due to the release of Talon of Horus.

I started the hobby with Black Legion ! During the 3.5 era ! Now you know someone who was into Black Legion back then :).

[incinerator950]

So the realease of The Talon of Horus made people shift from "Lol, Failbaddon, no arms, lol" to "Marysue Calgabaddon" in a matter of weeks ?

Interesting. You'll never stop fascinating me, Internet.

 

The Black Legion was never interesting to people, or at least in my experience it was never, ever, the first choice for a chaos army colour scheme. Even with the supplement in 6th edition the Black Legion is still not on par with the following that the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers or Night Lords have so if there is some hype built around it now it is only due to the release of Talon of Horus.

I started the hobby with Black Legion ! During the 3.5 era ! Now you know someone who was into Black Legion back then :).

He will always live on as Abbadon the Armless in by hollowshard heart. And you are now reading this measage in the voice of Mr. Torgue.