1500 Points - 30k - Legion List

[amazarak]

Good day folks,

 

I've been tooling around with an ideal mix of units in a 30k list for the 1500 point army. The idea being that the ideal 1500 points would contain everything needed to be competitive at it's point limit. A sort of 30k detachment that would be fielded in 'blocks' - 1 in a 1500 point game, 2 in a 3000 point game, and 3 in a 4500 point game.

 

A couple of things though, the FoC really isn't friendly to this so running two blocks at 3000 points might need to be discussed with an opponent prior to the game. Of course, at 4500 points, it's really an 'all bets are off' kind of apoc thing and I can't imagine it being an issue.

 

Here's what I was thinking at 1500 points:

 

HQ:

1 x Master of Signal w/artificer armor, power sword

 

Troops:

19 x Legionaires w/extra cc weapons, power sword, artificer armor

19 x Legionaires w/extra cc weapons, power sword, artificer armor

 

Elite:

2x apothocary w/ augury scanner, artificer armor, power weapon

1x mortis dread w/ twin linked lascannons

1x mortis dread w/twin linked auto cannons

 

Heavy:

3x Predators w/ lascannon sponsons

 

Summary: My thoughts are that the two infantry units (salamanders in this case so don't have vexillas) would push up the middle using their bolters and FoTL to handle marines or other light targets. The apothocaries are there to ensure that large squads survival. The extra cc weapons will allow them to deal with a similar opposing marine squad, or moderate cc threats. The mortis will act as fire support or anti-air as necessary. While the contemptors would have better survivability, the damage output is similar (BS4 TL vs BS5 TL) and I'm thinking my opponent might have other things on his mind. The predators would be there for anti-armor duties - are las cannon sponsons backed up with a TL las cannon from a mortis sufficient anti-armor? I'm not sure. At 3000 points though you are looking at 6 lascannon armed predators and 4 dreads with lascannons or auto cannons (along with a couple of bombardments from the MoS).

 

What do you think?

[Moonstalker]

I dunno about doubling the list up at 3k points, but I can quite readily approve of most of the list at 1500 - it's largely the same as mine.  A few things I would note, though:

 

1. I've switched to 2x Predators and 1x WW Scorpius.  Not quite as good at killing AV14, but the improvement against pretty much all other vehicles and the AoE/marine killing ability is totally worth it.  This does, of course, run counter to the idea of just doubling the list up for 3k as you'll quickly run out of HS slots.

2. Are those Contemptor-Mortis dreads or just standard Mortis dreads?  I think the latter from your list, but I'm not sure.  If so, consider upgrading to C-M's.  They're significantly more survivable with the higher front AV and built-in invul for only a small points increase.  It is worth dropping wargear off your apothecaries to afford it.

3. If you're bringing all those guys with power weapons and artificer armor, might as well make it power axes instead of swords.  Otherwise, when you run into guys with AA and AP2, you just lose.

4. Vexillas.  Maybe you're running a Legion that has a built-in reroll (Salamanders?), but if not then you definitely, 100% want vexillas in your tactical squads.  That morale reroll is critical for making sure they're not pinned, or falling back, or losing combat and getting swept.

 

My last point is a kind of philosophy/playstyle thing.  I used to run melee-kitted sergeants (pfist/aa) in my tactical squads, a volkite Culverin heavy weapons squad, and the master of signal (in the heavy weapons squad).  However, I felt like I had plenty of gunline but that I was too weak to melee.  The sergeants just weren't cutting it when it came to counter-assault, they just couldn't dual-purpose well enough.  This, plus my desire just to own/use some of FW's beautiful terminator models, means I've shifted my list so that my tacticals are purely a ranged unit.  I dropped the volkite squad because they were not terribly durable for the amount of points they cost, and as soon as my regular opponents wised up and stopped letting me murder them with martian lasers they were going to be in trouble.  The points from the melee upgrades on the sergeants and the volkite squad gave me the points to make a proper terminator squad.  Now, my master of signal always performed well for me, but he wasn't quite what the terminator squad needed in a leader.  So he's a Primus Medicae now.  At least for the time being.

 

I feel like this choice to specialize my tacticals improved my list, but it had further reaching effects in the rest of my list.  If I had gone the other direction, like you have, and forced more generalization on my tacticals by committing to more wargear for the apothecaries and the extra CCW for everyone in the squad, then maybe it would have worked out - but specializing seemed like it was best to me.

 

My current list is below.

 

 

 

Centurion

-Primus Medicae, Tartaros Plate, Power Weapon, Combibolter

 

Terminator Squad

-4 Marines/1 Sergeant, Tartaros Plate, 4 Powerfists, 1 Chainfist, 5 Combimelta

(Important note: I use tartaros for the mobility - cataphractii is too slow to footslog across the field - and combimeltas because I 1: always overheat plasma and 2: it's more general purpose and 3: it defeats FNP on marines)

 

Contemptor-Mortis

-Twin TLLC

 

Apothecarion

-2 Apothecaries

 

Tactical Squad

-18 Marines/1 Sergeant, Vexilla, Nuncio-vox

 

Tactical Squad

-18 Marines/1 Sergeant, Vexilla, Nuncio-vox

 

Predator Squadron

-2 Predators with Predator Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons

 

Whirlwind Scorpius

 

Planned expansion to 1850 is a Flare Shield/AC Spartan for the Terminators and augury scanners for the Apothecaries.

 

[amazarak]

Interesting perspective Kitwulfen - and I think your observations are certainly be valid. Are my tacticals too generalized? Perhaps so. I mean, they would certainly be capable against any 30k tactical squad or even some 40k dedicated squads, but if faced with some terminators, they would likely struggle. I like what you did by stripping the sgts down and conserving points. I've been looking for a way to fit in some terminators without sacrificing my other units and you might have hit upon an ideal solution. When I first saw your list I was like, 'that's over in points!' haha.

 

I went with standard dreads for the cost (real life and otherwise), but can certainly understand the allure of contemptors. I'm honestly surprised that they didn't address the mortis costs in the newest crusade army list - they seem under costed a little, not that I'm complaining mind. Another factor in the contemptors favor is that they neatly follow the 30k 'rule of cool' which is also appealing.  

 

I'm sold on the choice of the three predators for now (wow, never thought I'd say that!) because of the very real likely-hood of increased MCs as the heresy progresses. Additionally, Spartans seem mighty difficult to bring down, and I feel like I don't have enough heavy 'ooompf' to get it done properly with two Preds. Holy wow though that Scorpius seems a little big of alright on paper - and it's an extremely awesome model in it's own right. Also... rapiers. Man it's hard not to find a place for some of those guys... 120 points for 18 twin linked heavy bolters? Holy jeez.

 

I'm currently playing Salamanders and I've also been looking at a tactical support flamer squad. I like the fluffy nature of the squad and the +1 to flamers, but man, I feel like I just don't need any more marine killing power. 2 x 20 tactical squads w/apothocaries really seem like they will outgun most of the troops they would run up against you know?

[Moonstalker]

Funny enough, from the front, the Scorpius is better at killing a Spartan than the Predators once you account for the flare shield.  That's not to say that either of them are any good at it, but the Scorp is ever-so-slightly better in that specific situation.  So long as it's sitting still, it has 2-4 shots a turn, compared to the 2 lascannon shots a predator will have.  So on average, 3 shots, or 50% more firepower.  Now, from the front, the lascannons are s8 ap2 vs AV14 (due to the ubiquitous flare shield).  Being barrage, the scorpius always hits side armor, and so ignores the flare shield.  No pens possible, so the AP doesn't matter at all while you're trying to glance it to death.  2 s8 shots with a 33% chance of missing vs 3 s8 shots that hit almost all of the time (Spartan is a really big model...) definitely gives the Scorpius the upper hand - until/unless the Predators can swing around and get side armor.

 

That's all pretty naff, though.  If you really want to kill a Spartan, use meltabombs, chainfists, or DCCW.  Lascannons and scorpius missiles will always struggle to do that job.  Where the Scorpius really shines is in hammering side AV 11 of Predators and Rhinos, AV12 of dreads and sicarans, and softening up big blocks of infantry to give your guys the edge when they close in.

 

 

There's a lot of great stuff in 30k, and even if it's not all 'optimal' it's nearly all at least playable.  If you're thinking about building up towards 3k, I don't see any reason why you couldn't/shouldn't bring a big tac support squad with flamers - you've got all your other bases covered, so why not?  It's difficult to justify at 1.5k, but at 3k, I'm sure you can dig up 200 points for an extra scoring unit from somewhere.

[amazarak]

I really dig the Scorpius! You might have just given me a reason to pick one up! I love it!

 

Also I really enjoy hearing about the adventures of your Luna Wolves so keep us up on the happenings!

 

Thanks for your feedback!