Our most competetive tourney build

[mcpolle]

Hello fellow Wolf brothers,

 

I am trying to put together a 1850 pt, tourney list, and I am in a bit of a dilemma, because I cannot work out how to build the most competetive build,  I have tried a mix of drop pods, with a Wolf lord, on TWM, with an Iron Priest to back the pods up, but it seems to much middle of the road, also got owned by Necrons, as I had no anti flyer support, 

 

So, was thinking, if we could pool our resources, and try and make a rock hard tourney list.

 

Which type of list had you tried??, and what have you had success with??

 

I was thinking on a Bastion, with Long Fangs and Flakk missiles, as anti air, as they are there from turn one, and do not need to roll for them to come on, also hoping that a building will give them a little more staying power than an arm 12 flyer, that needs to roll on reserves.

 

Was also thinking along the lines of Wolf lord, with an IP , and a unit of TWC, maybe 2 of these, supported by wjatever else I could squeeze into the list, or maybe a full drop pod list, with maybe also a couple of Venerable dreads, have not tried them as of yet, but they look really cool:-)

 

So, what do you guys think??

 

Polle

[Frater Cornelius]

There isn't the 'one build'. You gotta find your play style, your preferred units and most of all you have to learn how to play. I've seen people at our store trying to copy high end list only to get beaten into the dirt because they did not have the basics down like positioning, target priority, knowing when to shoot and when to assault and so on and so forth.

And this is precisely the thing, you have to create your own list because in the process you learn about your units and how to play them better and how they interact. Most tournament players do not play anything special (unless exploiting broken combos), just lists they have gotten used to. The rest is just outplaying your enemy.

 

As for your suggestions, I have my personal beef with pure drop pod lists and bastions (the former is outperformed by UM, the latter is useless in my eyes). I wouldn't bother with Flakk missiles either because I found ignoring flyers worked better for me in most cases (even against cron air).

BlizzDreads have a niche role in an SW drop pod army (going after immobile/heavy weapon units that can not outrun it) but taking them en mass does not seem like a good idea in today's meta (too slow for that).

 

If you want allies, SW + WS can get pretty broken alpha strike with Centurions in Drop Pods + Scouting Bikes + TWC beta strike. But again, it is not an 'I WIN' button. It can be outplayed by experienced players.

If you are interested in a pure list, here (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296274-the-quest-for-purity/) is a discussion about it. Though it is mostly about my list with preferences and unit I know how to handle, you may find useful info there to help you.

 

Edit: Another allied option is the Invisible TWC star. You take a big TWC unit, 2 lords, 2-3 IP, 0-2 RP on bikes, Cyber Wolves and an allied Servin Loth (FW char who can choose his powers). Make them invisible and go to town.

I dislike that approch because I am not very good at handling death stars and I wouldn't perform all that well with that list. But hey, to each his own.

[Nova_chron]

If you want info on dreads my MVP today was a venerable dread killing a carnifex solo then ripping the skull of the swarm lord both in CC equipped with a great wolf claw and helfrost cannon. 165 points killed a dakka fex with crushing claws not sure in cost and the swarm lord easily earned his points

[Rift Blade]

Immersturm is right. Gotta find what works for you. One person's MVP is another's garbage. That being said, Thunder Wolf Cav are a good starting unit for an army as they are fairly straight forward. If you have access to FW try a Tempest Land Speeder for AA. It comes with Flakk Missiles. The Bastion is a great unit but I would suggest giving it the quad gun & putting a bare bones GH pack in it as well to man the Quad gun. Gives you more options. My 2 cents anyways.

[Spacefrisian]

Ulrik and 2 lvl 2 Runepriest are pretty solid to start with, cant go wrong with these 3 fellas boosting your army. (iam using Divination and Sanctity, only thing going wrong being that i didnt get the gate power).

 

Greyhunters with standard in Landraider redeemer is solid as well, i guess you could try using that yourself as well, 2 spots for Ulrik and Runepriest. I tend to throw in a Wulfen stone on that Runepriest as well, furious charge with 40+ attacks is pretty nasty, and that doesnt even add Ulriks trick.

 

I guess you could try around with something similar like that yourself.

 

BTW: Redeemer eats jinking jetbikes for breakfast.

[mcpolle]

I hear what you are saying, and must be a sign of a strong codex, we have then, if there is no "one" build, which I see as a good thing.

 

Immersturm, will give your post a read thru, 

SpaceFrisian; how do you see a Redeemer as a good thing against jet bikes?? Who on earth is gonna let you get a hvy flamer shot off against them:-), but can see the idea with a LR and a whole bunch of dudes, coming at ya.

 

So, what have you guys been using for anti air then?? The Storm wolf??

 

Polle

[Frater Cornelius]

Nothing. I usually manage to outmaneuver them on the field. Flyers are incredibly hard to handle, especially in Maelstrom. I usually get within 18" of the enemy's edge with most of my army by the time his flyers come. At that point I can just stay in the dead area and grab objectives. Works amazingly against Cron Air. I win by victory points, not elimination.

Now, when Flyrants come along, it is another issue. This becomes a game of objectives. He will hunt me and I will need to kill his other units and score with hope that a lucky shot send the Flyrant crashing down where the TWC can tear him a new one.

But hell, that is one setup of one codex. I can live with that.

People always seem to believe that the only good list is one that can table the opponents. That is not always possible and not always necessary. Sometimes all you need is to be mobile and grab stuff.

[MeatGrinder]

The things that Im seeing to be pretty constant in all lists are thunderwoles. You want a squad of these guys. Theyre just so good.

[Spacefrisian]

 

Immersturm, will give your post a read thru, 

SpaceFrisian; how do you see a Redeemer as a good thing against jet bikes?? Who on earth is gonna let you get a hvy flamer shot off against them:-), but can see the idea with a LR and a whole bunch of dudes, coming at ya.

 

You be suprised how far 20" is giong to get you. (12" move, 8" flamer) that being said, it might also be that my opponent forgot to notice that my Redeemer had 2 flamers when he tried to surround me with Dark Eldar Raiders. And he even had such a nice Waveserpent spam to back those 2 Raiders up.

 

Landraiders vs Scatterlaser Waveserpents is hilarious btw, short shooting rounds for Eldar.

[Frater Cornelius]

AV14 is a damn beast, until they bring out the lances :/

[Jostal]

If you want allies, SW + WS can get pretty broken alpha strike with Centurions in Drop Pods + Scouting Bikes + TWC beta strike. But again, it is not an 'I WIN' button. It can be outplayed by experienced players.

 

 

How are you getting Centurions in Drop Pods??

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Battle brothers can use each other's transports. SW can buy drop pods as a FA choice and then put the allied centurions inside it.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Battle brothers can use each other's transports. SW can buy drop pods as a FA choice and then put the allied centurions inside it.

 

BREAK IT!! BREAK IT OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPEN!!

 

I'm not one to play competitively, and I certainly don't troll around for tier 1 lists just so I can win. I will say this here:

I am glad to see the response to this kind of question come out in the form of a 'do your own thing' kind of response. It means this book is solid on many levels, which I was in doubt of.

 

End of Line

[GhostOfGhosts]

What are the best allies to take so far for crushing our foes.

 

Oh why couldn't the Space Wolves have the Centurions..... Need to get some, maybe use as count as Terminators if SM allies are not going to be taken.

They look like what real Terminators should do, wanting to terminate stuff.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

 The theme of this thread is to style your list after your own play style. This applies to allies as well. SW can make use of many different allies but you have to make sure that it creates synergy with your Wolves and supports your overall battle plan. That being said, I personally find White Scars to be great allies as they suit my aggressive play style. I have also used AM to good effect but that was in 6th edition. I am interested in a small contingent of GK or perhaps an assassin for fun.

[Frater Cornelius]

Our book is solid enough to live without allies, and that is saying a lot.

I have seen sw +um lists with 3 drop pod cents and all can say is 'whatever'. It is cheap beyond measure and in the end, it is not that effective if you know how to defend yourself.

So I say it again. Do not look for the most broken combos. They will be gone either after a new codex/FAQ or when people found ths counter and the meta shifts. Find your own sweet spot.

[WG Vrox]

The other point that is important to bring up is experience with the list.

 

Many times players will hop from one list to another, substituting one unit then go after shinny list after only 1 or 2 play tests which initially is ok, However if you plan to run any list in a tournament, it is experience using a list by playing it over and over against different opponents that will make you dangerous.  

[Blackwinter]

what do you guys think of a list like this:

 

btw it is not mine i have seen it  a blog.

 

HQ: Thunder Wolf Battle Leader, Thunder Wolf, Runic Armor, Powerfist, Storm Shield

Elite: Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf, Cyber Wolves X 3
Elite: Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf, Cyber Wolves X 3
Elite: Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf, Cyber Wolves X 3

Troop: Grey Hunters X 10, Meltagun X 2, Wolf Guard, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod
Troop: Blood Claws X 5, Storm Wolf, TWL Multi-Melta

FA: Thunder Wolves X 3, SS, Power Fist X 1, Wolf Claw X 2

Knight Character: Gerantius

 

Is it competitive for us to ally with Imperila Knights?

This Gerantius is really much points. But he can shoot and run, and rerolls 1's  when stomping. And he has 3++ shiled anhs has better stats then a normal knight.

 

3x IP can repair him i think. And stormwolf can deal with fliers.

My main concers is if Imperial Knigts are competitive allies for us or not.

[Frater Cornelius]

That is an interesting build. I can see its potential. However, it has certain flaws. Before I get into those, let me get a personal grudge with it out of the way: it is a pseudo-deathstar. A lot of points is being invested into a model/unit and the rest is there to support it. While they are certainly effective, it is just not my style. However, I will try to be as neutral as possible going into this.

 

For one, this list is very vulnerable to drop pod alpha strike. The model count is pretty darn low and it is possible to take out all 3 IP turn 1. Then it becomes a cat-and-mouse game with the Knight.

Certain armies can take out the Knight turn 1 since the 3++ is directional.

And lastly, this army is very vulnerable against aggressive melee builds. IP is I1 with 2hp. Even the 2+ won't save him from a big torrent of attacks. The Knight might be I4, but he does not have the ability to take out a big number of opponents before his stomp attack, so I1 S10 attacks like TWC or Arjac can really threaten him, provided they have enough models to eat the I4 attacks.

 

But, here are some merits: This list will highly annoy necrons. They have nothing outside of I2 S6/7 AP1 armour bane melee to pen him. So they can only glance him. With a 3++ and repairs, he will rip them a new one.

Same goes against Tau.

The key against those armies is to be aggressive and into melee turn 1-2 to prevent your IP going down.

 

Here is a change I would make to make it competitive against armies like Eldar, Dark Eldar and IG as well:

Drop BC and SW, max out on Cyber Wolfs and add 2*15 Fenrisian Wolves. They are cheap, very fast, then can protect IP and they can hunt Lance Weapons.

To make that legal, play CoF (2 mandatory elites, not troops) and give the Lord a Krakenbone Sword and Fellclaw's Teeth instead if the fist while you are at it.

 

So, I do like this list? A bit. Would I consider it? Possibly. Do I think it has high end potential with a few adjustments and proper execution? Hell yes!

[Spacefrisian]

We could also add what NOT to take, i guess Lone Wolves and SW Scouts (no more sniffing around in opponents backyard) pretty much fill up that role, dont see much use for Ironpriests either.

[Frater Cornelius]

We could also add what NOT to take, i guess Lone Wolves and SW Scouts (no more sniffing around in opponents backyard) pretty much fill up that role, dont see much use for Ironpriests either.

 

I disagree of IP. The majority of TWC deathstars rely on them. I consider mounted IP a competitive unit if you have a solid plan for them. Otherwise more TWC is a better option.

[Jostal]

FA Drop pods is a great delivery system for Assault Centurions. I like it.. :)

[mcpolle]

FA drop pods, are good for many reasons, they can also just be bought as empty pods, if you need to get that extra unit in a pod down. Plus, can a Cullexus come down in one?? Thinking of how to deliver that little sucker when and where we need him.

 

Polle

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, I do have the feeling that the best SW slot outside of HQ is the FA slot. We have TWC, Fenrisian Wolves, Land Speeders, Drop Pods, Stormwolves, Swiftclaw bikes (I would prefer those for tank hunting over WG bikes because you can take a 3-man unit instead of a 5-man minimum).

They should have made Champions of Fenris give you 8 FA slots, but I guess then we would be crowned the new cheese dex^^

[FenrisWolf]

I think a set of dedicated force org variants is called for. One for each great company.  Gunnar Red Moon's could be six heavy support and three of all others (like CoF's 6 elite slots). Kjarl Grimblood's could have some bonus similar to Salamanders. Ragnar's could have Drop Pod bonuses.  Egil Ironwolf's could have 6 FA slots with some vehicle bonus or limitations.  Harald Deathwolf's could have 6 FA slots with the calvary and beast bonuses.  Bran Redmaw's could have a troop focus bonus. Erik Morkai could restore OBEL to scouts. Engir Krakendoom could have armored assault bonuses.

 

Basically take the fluff in the codex and give some restrictions and bonuses based on the Great Company you're using. I think that would be awesome!

 

But they'll never do it. As you say, we'd really have the cheese dex then!