Heavy Artillery Support - Medusa vs Manticore vs Earthshaker

[Genmotty]

Given the range of different artillery options available to the Imperial Guard, it can be difficult to decide on how to choose a central heavy artillery unit for ones army. Each have various pros and cons. For the purposes of this thread, I would like to ask the community in the question;

 

In the situation of 'a large scale average game' (1600pts limit) with variation down to (1200pts) and up to (2000pts). That is played typically on a 4ft x 6ft board, but may on occasion be 'apocalypse scale' to 8ft x 6ft. What they may recommend as being the best artillery choice overall for a general informal game (i.e. non-tournament)?

 

To keep discussion focused, I'd prefer if we stuck to the following Artillery options only;

 

Imperial Bombard - Siege Gun

Earthshaker - Artillery Carriage

Earthshaker - Basilisk

Medusa - Artillery Carriage

Medusa - Siege Gun

Manticore - Missile Launcher

 

 

I would also ask that, rather than just say which you thin is the best you rank them (e.g. 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice etc.)

 

 

 

Imperial Bombard - Siege Gun

Pros:

~6m Max Range

Vehicle (albeit slow

Big blast, strong strength and reasonable AP

Armoured

 

Cons:

Large deadzone

Slow rate of fire

 

 

Earthshaker - Artillery Carriage

Pros:

~6m Max Range

Large Blast, excellent strength and reasonable AP

Can Purchase 2 Earthshakers for the price of 1 Bombard

 

Cons:

Large deadzone

Lightly Armoured

Generally Immobile

 

 

Earthshaker - Basilisk

Pros:

~6m Max Range

Large Blast, excellent strength and reasonable AP

Vehicle

 

Cons:

Large deadzone

Poorly Armoured

 

 

Medusa - Artillery Carriage

Pros:

~3m Max Range

Large Blast, super strength and excellent AP

 

Cons:

Small deadzone

Lightly Armoured

Generally Immobile

 

 

Medusa - Siege Gun

Pros:

Short Range

Large Blast, super strength and excellent AP

 

Cons:

Direct Fire

Lightly Armoured

 

 

Manticore

Pros:

High Alpha Damage potential

~3m Max Range

Large Blast, super strength high AP

 

Cons:

Small Deadzone

Limited Ammunition

Can Purchase 3 Earthshaker Guns for the price of one Manticore

 

 

 

In comprising the above comparison, it was interesting to note that the gun carriages are somewhat more armoured than the vehicle versions of the same unit, however unlike the vehicle versions, they lack associated HP and can be more easily destroyed on a single hit. There is also points to make on the points cost differences. Since while units like the Manticore might be excellent, you could have three Earthshaker Guns for the same cost, over a 6 round game, they may put out perhaps around 12 shots in total (3,3,2,2,1,1) compared to the Manticores 4.

 

 

 

[hendrik]

i'm affraid you got some maths wrong, as at 75 pts, you can't get 3 earthshakers for the price of 1 manticore.

 

I've got personal experience with all artillery options, bar the medusa heavy artillery carriage and so far my main working horses have always been either the manticores (with the IA vol 1,2nd ed. ammunition), or earthshaker heavy artillery carriages. I usually take a squadron of these earthshakers and place them near a company command squad, thus benefiting from orders! sometimes they get taken out quickly due to the vulnerability of their crew to deepstriking units, but at the same time thay are deadcheap and pack a serious punch! just make sure your opponent has bigger issues to worry about! it's rarely that they don't make their points back, or at the very least make my opponent deepstrike a very expensive unit into the killing ground around my heavy artillery! (I usually try to place them so that any deepstriking units will be shot to pieces the turn after they arrive.or even place them into terrain for a cover save)

 

either way i think you can not fully compare them since each gun will perform a general task, for a different price.

Personally my top 3 is :

1) earthshaker heavy artillery carriage; cheap, allrounder and can benefit from orders.

2) manticores; the best troop killer artillery, and S10 makes it a danger to vehicles too!

3)medusa, although a demolisher does a better job at hunting 2+ armour, with a higher chance of survival!

[WarriorFish]

I agree with hendrik, they're similar enough superficially but the differences are enough to make their uses separate enough. The Earthshaker is a good default choice, especially if you use the IA rules for the carriage version; the Manticore is sort of a variation on it providing more S and less AP with better mobility. The Medusa is good in an artillery list with suitable protection from infantry and saturation from other AV12 hulls but I too find the Demolisher superior.

 

A canny opponent will identify and neutralise a Medusa quickly but that's not so easy with a Demolisher. As is usually the case the best unit is the one you need for the job - the job being something you and your list decide - but hendrik's order is a good starting point :)

[hendrik]

don't forget the manticore missiles from IA V1;2nd ed., a 140 pts 7" S9 AP2 pieplate is going to ruin everybodies day...4 times in a row!

[Genmotty]

i'm affraid you got some maths wrong, as at 75 pts, you can't get 3 earthshakers for the price of 1 manticore.

 

Not really... Depends on upgrades granted to the vehicle, and I also didn't want to mention points costs specifically, just a general ball park figure. I guess at base cost I should say that there is around a 45pts cost difference between 3 Earthshakers and 1 Manticore. (170 vs 75).

 

Either way, thanks for your input.

 

 

The Earthshaker does have a large deadzone;

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv82/Haths/Range_01_zps4a87d80b.png

Example: If gun could be placed at 0,0. Blue line represents minimum range. As I understand it, you can still fire indirectly within this, sample spread also shown at 20,00 with scatter.

 

Generally requiring you to split them into two units, one for each corner, so that you can cover the entire board.

[hendrik]

but sometimes you don't want to cover the entire board at all times. i know that whereever my earthshaker heavy artillery battalion is aiming at my opponent will deploy his force just out of their available 45° LOS(which is the only drawback imo for artillery emplacements). thus allowing me to redirect his deployment just by the placement of my 140 pts unit. but i might have to try a split deployment, or just field 2 batteries of two since all that needs is me casting up another of my own earthshaker emplacements ;)

[JBugman]

Hello, gentlemen.

 

I found this thread and wanted to build on it asking: is it worth to fill out a full Heavy Support slot with one type of artillery rather than get one of each type, i.e. having three Basilisks versus one of each Manticore, Medusa and Basilisk?

 

Thanks in advance!

[librisrouge]

I would suggest that it depends on the rest of your list and what your local meta is.

 

If you're facing a lot of multi-wound T5 enemies, by all means double down on Manticores.

Tons of power armor, cannot go wrong with Basilisks.

Armor fun time! Medusas will stop them in their tracks.

 

Also, consider Rapiers and Quad Mortars. They're wonderful in my book (though not the big guns that the others are.)

 

If you do not know what you're facing, then consider a spread out approach of one of each. They are all worth it, in most cases, and will pull their weight if given enough turns to shoot. Make sure they're supported and cannot be easily gotten to by the enemy. This means both cover and screening units.

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the B&C Bugman, libris pretty much nails it. Taking multiples of the same unit really enhances their effectiveness as you'd expect but at the cost of diversification. Take different units and you get a lot more flexibility but will likely not get too much cross over in role - it all depends on what you need in your list (or want!).

 

As libris said when in doubt a balanced approach is usually best as you shouldn't specialise too much without good reason. With squadrons it's perhaps more of a points issue than anything else though :P My preference is two of something, so a couple of Wyverns or Bassies for example. Ideally in separate units if your FOC can stretch to it.

[march10k]

Reading this thread reminds me why I field two demolishers in every list...

That said...a manticore would make an excellent companion to that pair of demolishers...hang back and get pounded from afar, or close the distance and help me out with the short range of my "kills everything" pieplate.

[librisrouge]

That is why I field two Thunderer Seige Tanks AND two Demolishers...they kill everything.

...

Cripes I hate flyers.