How do you see your Legion?

[Balthamal]

My view of the Legions as they were has varied a fair bit over the years. Staying away from my previous "objections" (see raging condemnation) of the dex, I always stuck to the idea that at their heart, warbands X,Y,Z etc of Legion L, were still of that Legion. Whether they maintained close ties with all who shared their bloodline or were prone to kill them on sight, when everything was said and done, they still carried that Iron/Winged/Flaming Skull or the Hydra or the mark of whichever power they were aligned to on their armour. Part of my choice to move towards a Horus Heresy army instead of a CSM one was the willingness from FW to explore the characters of each Legion, not just from a rules sense, their character, their motivations, the flaws inherent that would lead them to betray their founding oaths and become the scourge of the galaxy because that stuff matters more to me than a bland paragraph here and there from someone in the design studio needing to fill a page.

 

Now I've broadened my horizons with my perspective. Variation has become apparent, something I'm overjoyed with having grown tired of cookie-cutter portrayals over the years. Now that lovely Word Bearer company who appear to be the same as dozens if not hundreds actual preach a different denomination of the Primordial Truth to that coming from the lips of established warlords such as Erebus and Kor Phaeron. How is it dffierent? Why is it different? these things add layers of complexity and opportunity to fluff bunnys/modelers/gamers in equal measure. Do I still dislike the model/rules side? Absolutely. But the potential there is enough to actually tempt me into taking the plunge.

 

For my own Night Lords, The Forsaken, I've started to post their background over in the Murder's Call attempting to show not just who they are as a band of murderers/thieves/rapists/sadists/torturers running around the galaxy in a ship powerful enough to decimate worlds at the whim of their commander, but WHY they have reached the point in their evolution they currently find themselves at. In short, and marked contrast to most of the VIII Legion, these guys actually look out for each other. They suffered their betrayals before Istvaan was even a dark thought curling in the mind of Horus. They've been betrayed more times than they can happily count and they hate that it always comes down to that. They hate the fratricide. They hate the jealousy, the spite, the paranoia. They hate their Primarch, seeing only what is worst in him as he continues his downward spiral into delusion and self-immolation. They do not base themselves out of Tsagualsa like the majority of the VIII, preferring to fight for themselves and the means to secure their own future rather than for a creature they loathe and with brothers who would throw them into the guns of the Imperium if it meant survival for themselves. To them, the Legion could be something so much more than what it was reduced to under his reign and they are willing to fight to keep it alive. If Abaddon offered them his own particular brand of brotherhood, they'd turn him down because they have it already. They didn't fight throughout the Legion wars looking for a purpose or to simply stay alive, they had the means to survive and a purpose worth fighting for before the concept of the Long War became the central tenant to most CSMs. Is it a nice smooth road to reach a point of self-sustaining-ism? Gods no. When I finally get around to it I want to show just how much blood, pain and out and out bad luck these guys have to go through, all to end up on their knees before the Ezekarion. But that, as they say, is the future, past needs writing first :D

 

To touch on the Crimson Slaughter point, I actually like the story of their downfall. It is reasonable and fits in perfectly well with the tragedy of the Imperium that the best of intentions cause harm on an unimaginable scale. The only issue I have with it, is the whole attempt at preening before Azrael and Calgar which totally broke the suspension of disbelief. Seems to me that it was included only to provide a point of reference against the backdrop of loyalist Chapters. I find it too implausible that a warrior brotherhood with their own proud traditions would spend the majority of their time clamoring for the approval of just two albeit famous commanders. Seems far too cheap and convenient to make for an effective flaw imo. Now if it had been something along the lines of the UMs dumping them in the vanguard to take the most casualties because they preferred to keep their own 1st Founding Chapter fresh to reap the glory then that would be a more potent motivator. Plus the fact that Calgar is heralded as the greatest hero in the Imperium when a good chunk of the Imperium doesn't know of the existence of Space Marines let alone one among their million, just jars for me. But again opportunity presents itself, my own DIY Chapter, the Shadow Scorpions, are a 2nd Founding successor of the UMs and insist on making a once in a century pilgrimage to Macragge to pay homage atthe tomb of Gulliman. Calgar meanwhile they couldn't care less about, reasoning that in the centuries after the HH it might have mattered that he was master of the UMs but now millennium later, he is just one of about 500-600 masters of UM Legion Successors so it carries no weight, only giving a thumbs up to his formidable, if Mary Sue-esq battle record. 

 

And finally regarding Loesh and his vision of the Emperor's Children. I agree with it for the most part. The only thing I'd perhaps differ with would be the mutations. I think if anything, mutation among the EC would be far more subtle compared to say Nurgle of Tzeentch. Whilst there would certainly be changes to appearances, either through the virtues and vices of the individual or the desire of Slaanesh to have a champion more "appealing", the majority of changes would take place internally. So for example more extreme ocular/oral/aural spectrum sensitivity, nerve endings keyed to detect the slightest fluctuation in temperature/pressure/pain etc or even as ADB explored altered brain chemistry for the neurons to produce more dramatic reactions to any stimuli. The main thing I'd like to explore with them would be the dynamic between a warband/company of elitist preening egomaniacs functioning in cohesion long enough to actually kill something before inevitably someone blames someone else for messing up the symphony of murder they're conjuring and gets the knife out

[Loesh]

 

And finally regarding Loesh and his vision of the Emperor's Children. I agree with it for the most part. The only thing I'd perhaps differ with would be the mutations. I think if anything, mutation among the EC would be far more subtle compared to say Nurgle of Tzeentch. Whilst there would certainly be changes to appearances, either through the virtues and vices of the individual or the desire of Slaanesh to have a champion more "appealing", the majority of changes would take place internally. So for example more extreme ocular/oral/aural spectrum sensitivity, nerve endings keyed to detect the slightest fluctuation in temperature/pressure/pain etc or even as ADB explored altered brain chemistry for the neurons to produce more dramatic reactions to any stimuli. The main thing I'd like to explore with them would be the dynamic between a warband/company of elitist preening egomaniacs functioning in cohesion long enough to actually kill something before inevitably someone blames someone else for messing up the symphony of murder they're conjuring and gets the knife out

 

I think the place I got that was from the Tome of Excess for Black Crusade actually, which besides just being an all around wonderful book on Slaanesh gave two interesting examples of mutation, and ones not even inside the Chaos army itself: A officer of the Imperium who starts getting really attached to his Chainsword in the midst of combat and actually finds it fused to his arm in the middle of battle and obsessed with it's sensitivity, begins chopping up his own men. The other was a Sister of Battle who had taken a liking to fine wine, and would eventually find one day she had extra mouths with which to drink it and extra arms to carry. These things happen all the time in the imperial line at Slaanesh's whim, and either these mutants are killed by their comrades or they carve their way out to the 'safety' of a Slaaneshi warband.

 

I think that really stuck with me, Slaanesh is after all the Prince of Excess and mutations probably fall under that. While i'm sure there's some Slaaneshi who are suitably subtle in their changes, there are probably others who are flat out Lovecraftian Horrors. Slaanesh's definition of beauty probably has little relation to our own besides having the capacity to replicate it.

 

And yeah, I would assume that's where stuff like the Scarlet Blade tournament come into play.

[Balthamal]

Hmm I've never read any of the god specific books for Black Crusade, think I might have to take the plunge if I can find them somewhere reasonably priced

[Loesh]

I heard Doomrider has a quote in the Tome of Blood.

 

Because he's a troll like that.

[Dragonlover]

Fluff wise, I haven't read a bad FFG sourcebook yet, and I've read most of them.

 

Dragonlover

[Loesh]

Hmm I've never read any of the god specific books for Black Crusade, think I might have to take the plunge if I can find them somewhere reasonably priced

 

Also, now that I think about it there was a very detailed piece on the Noise Marines as well which might factor into the latter half of your post. While they didn't give any examples of internal strife in that book, it's mentioned that Noise Marine mercenaries are pretty likely to whirl around on their 'allies' after battle and open fire just to hear what sound they make.

 

I get the impression the Emperors Children stopped caring about Horus and his war long before it ever ended, they continue to obliterate chunks of the Imperium purely as a side effect of their existence.

[incinerator950]

I never saw variation or mutation as the problem, cookie cutting was a result of restrictions from 3.5.

 

I left my little wave of text basic for that reason, every Warband I make is neither standard, and that goes from non-rubric'd Thousand sons to Nurgle Iron Warriors to Khornate Chef's.

[Marshal Rohr]

The philosophy of meta-anthroarchism underlies how I see my eventual Sons of Horus and their later Black Legion descendants. Meta-anthroarchism is based on the assumption that, were it to become a reality, humanity would be separated into two incompatible classes who would inevitably fight for scarce resources necessary to both, but without the benefit of philosophical norms of fundamental biological equality as a basis for arbitration. It isn't the case of the mighty state being right, and thus having a de facto claim to more resources than the weak (Classical Realism) or that two states must participate in arbitration to both gain something, even if it isn't everything they wanted (Neoliberalism). The existence of post-humans will inevitably lead to a schism between the mortals and immortals. 

 

In 30/40K this schism is the Horus Heresy. The legionaries of the GC are rationalists, and it would take more than some magic tricks by Erebus to convince them to embrace religion. Only the worldview shattering experiences in the Eye by the Serrated Sun/Consecrated Iron would be enough to fundamentally alter a legionaries view of the universe with science as the explanation for phenomena. By the beginning of the Horus Heresy, the lodges have spread the meta-anthroarchist philosophy throughout the Legions and they purge themselves of the legionaries who view their role as chosen protectors of humanity, not its rulers. If you doubt that this philosophy would've been present in the Legions, even Guilliman embraced it. Training his men to be future philosopher kings as well as warriors, positions given to them based on what they were and not merit (though obviously there would've been a hierarchy within the appointments, a Tactical Marine might be a prefect of a city instead of a planetary governor, for example). 

 

This philosophy would've been strongest in the Sons of Horus, who would've seen, by proximity, how ineffectual and corrupt the frontier administrations would've been. The constant call for increasing resource extraction and revenue generation from newly conquered worlds would've also been equally disposed, because it made the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus into colonialist thugs instead of liberators. Such poor policy by the administrative caste would've further raised the awareness of how little say the superior humans in the legions had in how the Imperium they bought in blood was run. The Emperor, by the time of the Heresy, was too busy dealing with Magnus' catastrophic hubris to administer his own empire.

 

Over the course of the heresy, the reality of the Chaos would've slowly seeped in. Cthonia runes and skull fetishes of enemy champions would take on new meanings. Where before the runes were just habits from the birth world, suddenly the actually embrue the wearer with real protection or strength. With every skull you take, battle plan well executed, wound ignored, and expert combat maneuver the legionaries actually become more powerful. The Word Bearers teach the other traitors how to harness the power they are discovering and it carries them forward on a wave of victories all the way to Terra. Horus is sacrificed and the traitors retreat into the Eye, where they obliterate each other in a maelstrom of power politics and shifting balances of power.

 

Then, after the Legion Wars, and having been fully exposed to chaos, the meta-anthroarchist philosophy evolves to incorporate the knowledge that they space marines are created from the stuff of the warp via the geneseed. The warp becomes something they always should've had, and now use to its fullest effect. Loyalist space marine chapters are useless, thinned blooded facsimiles of the superior legions, but even the legions were not able to achieve their full potential and take their rightful place as rulers of humanity because they had no access to the Warp, which is the very source of their greatness. 

 

The original legions themselves still exist, having reformed and broken apart and reformed again (this isn't unique to Chaos or a product of the Eye of Terror, its the natural cycle of any organization with more than one person). By the time of the 13th Black Crusade, the old legions have largely coalesced into fractured, but cohesive armies, more akin to feudal armies than their incarnation as a Legion. They are a fraction of their old size, but still present in numbers far outstripping anything but the largest gatherings of loyalist chapters. Cult worship is a divisive school of thought. Some believe that one god can help on their path to ruling the galaxy, but all that falls into the interplay and politics between the gods. The gods are not able to do anything more than share power with those who generate more power for them. Their armies march with their favored servants, and an uneasy peace has settled by the time Abaddon launches against Cadia. By 999.M41 the forces of Chaos have coalesced into a confederation of Legions, Warbands, Daemon armies, lost and the damned, traitors, pirates, etc. Some are there for Abaddon's goal, some are there for their own goals, all are there to kill Imperials. By the time the clock strikes midnight, Chaos is de facto allied to crush an Imperium at the highest level of mobilization since the Horus Heresy, but this time it won't be enough. 

 

That is how I see it at least. 

[Loesh]

Very much agreed, and were I to make a broader post on the legions it would sound something like that.

 

As it stands, a very well thought out and comprehensive post that unfortunately I can add little to. :p

[Loesh]

Actually now that I think about it, I do have something to add. Regarding you mentioning how Warbands rivaling the size of Loyalist Chapters, I think what people fail to grasp a lot with Warhammer is a sense of scale regarding the legions and the Imperium itself. The Imperium, according to the last estimate I read, held around countless trillions(Roughly 500 trillion was the number.)  within and it's still struggling against Chaos, that is over a hundred billion earths, it is beyond enormous in size and only around the ballpark of a million worlds 'thanks' to hive cities.

 

When thinking of Lucius and Eidolen as well as other Legions champions I do not consider them unique, merely well publicized. There could be dozens if not hundreds of warhosts of equal size and power if not greater, we merely have not heard about them. Chaos has been rebuilding itself for 10,000 years, at times spitting out small armies to carve their way through the imperium like a shard of glass through an intestinal tract to get their hands on some geneseed and pull back, bolstered further by loyalist chapters becoming corrupted and assimilated into those legions/warbands over time, these groups are only fractured in comparison to their 100,000 strong or greater selves with the Red Cosairs and Black Legion being at equal strength, and this is counting only Chaos Space Marines and not factoring in the lost and the damned. It is impossible to really grasp how big Chaos and the Imperium both are, they are completely titanic in scale and scope compared to anything we could possibly relate in our lives or our history.

[Marshal Rohr]

I still operate under the assumption that their are roughly 1,000,000 loyalist marines active in M41. This number used to have a specific quote to reference it, and the statistic of 1,000 active chapters was recently referenced, though I'd need to find it. I can't recall any specific references to the total number of chaos marines. For the sake of balance, I'd assume it's roughly equal, with around 1/3 being original legion veterans, and the rest being marines created after the Heresy, renegades, or traitors.

 

To comprehend the scale, I assume that any action or campaign that involves the traitor marines to be the very forefront of a wider chaos effort, a small raiding party, or an independent and weak warband. For the place we are at in the timeline, the famous names would have massive hosts and countless other warlords would as well.

[Loesh]

I still operate under the assumption that their are roughly 1,000,000 loyalist marines active in M41. This number used to have a specific quote to reference it, and the statistic of 1,000 active chapters was recently referenced, though I'd need to find it. I can't recall any specific references to the total number of chaos marines. For the sake of balance, I'd assume it's roughly equal, with around 1/3 being original legion veterans, and the rest being marines created after the Heresy, renegades, or traitors.

 

To comprehend the scale, I assume that any action or campaign that involves the traitor marines to be the very forefront of a wider chaos effort, a small raiding party, or an independent and weak warband. For the place we are at in the timeline, the famous names would have massive hosts and countless other warlords would as well.

 

Or in short: A lot of people are killing each other.

 

A million is a statistic doesn't even cover it, the exact number of forces factoring in human forces is so high it's almost irrelevant.

[Kol Saresk]

I would give that roughly one million Loyalist Astartes a disclaimer that it might be ten thousand or more less than that when there are Chapters like the Flesh Tearers, Lamenters and Crimsons Fists running around at severely depleted strength, recent converts like the Crimson Slaughter and Night Reapers who only recently converted within the last decade Chapters like the Crimson Consuls and the Marines Errant who have been effectively wiped out. And those are the famous ones.

[Marshal Rohr]

*Light Bulb*

 

I'm trademarking my meta-anthroarchists 'the Zarathustrians'

 

Sometimes I'm so clever I scare myself. 

[Loesh]

*Light Bulb*

 

I'm trademarking my meta-anthroarchists 'the Zarathustrians'

 

Sometimes I'm so clever I scare myself. 

 

Seems like a mouthful, on the plus side Inquisitors would quickly become frustrated trying to spell your name without spell checkers.

[Marshal Rohr]

Its from Nietzsche's book predicting the rise of the ubermensch.  

[Loesh]

Its from Nietzsche's book predicting the rise of the ubermensch.  

 

I never studied Nietzsche extensively before Warhammer funnily enough, a lot of his concepts seep into the setting along with the Lovecraftion Horror and Orwellian Dystopia that make it the horrific setting we've come to know and love.

[Marshal Rohr]

I think this thread finally broke my disdain for 40K.

[Kol Saresk]

Lovecraftian Horror is "da bomb". I have a dream to take a couple of symbols from the Key of Solomon(specifically the Third and Sixth Pentacles of Mars), cram them into the Sigil of the Gateway and..... That last you don't need to know. Trade secret. :P

[Sheesh Mode]

I have never really seen warbands as a part of any particular legion. It has simply been too long in the history of the galaxy for any of the legions to have remained whole. At this point any particular legion name is simply a classification to denote a group of marines with a similar culture, combat style, and preference towards mayhem. 

 

Consider: my warband is led by a scion of Abaddon, our patron deity is Khorne, and our warband revolves around a cannibalistic warrior culture that places extreme importance upon honor. Where before we were simply a fleet based group searching for new meat and bringing the Glory of God to the Imperium, we now must play host to others within the Black Legion. Creatures marked by other gods, with different customs, tactics, and preferences. Why the Flesh Eater tolerates their presence, I do not know, though I am not such a fool as to ignore the magnetic power of the Despoiler. 

 

But we ourselves maintain our pride. Though we are killers, first and foremost, we honor one another through combat and protection. Going so far as to return to the battle field to search for survivors, not scavenge their remains as other more animalistic warbands do.  

[The Errant]

This topic was a great idea!

 

My view on the Traitor Legions in general is that they're about as 'broken up' as the loyalist Legions are. Some Legions have made very few Successor Chapters over the millennia, due to their small size by the time the Heresy and its aftermath was over, and have never recovered from those losses. Some Legions have so many Successor Chapters that even the Administratum has lost track of the total number. Many Chapters don't even know which Legion's gene-stock they were founded from. Some Legions have very tight-knit Successor Chapters which hold strongly to old Legion ties, while some Legions have too many Successor Chapters all over the galaxy to maintain that kind of closeness. Some Chapters just don't put much stock in the old ties and interpret the Codex Astartes in a way that discourages them from honoring shared Legion heritage. Some Chapters are battle-scarred and under-strength, barely the size of a company or two. Some Chapters could care less about the Codex and have grown to prodigious size.

 

Translate Chapters to their Chaos analogues, warbands. Some believe the old Legion ties are very important, others less so. Many warbands that fall under the umbrella of one of the Traitor Legions are comprised of members from various sources--other Traitor Legions, renegade Chapters, new recruits from within the Eye of Terror created using whatever gene-seed is available via whatever methods are available. And as a whole I feel they honor the bonds of the Legions about as much as the loyalist Chapters do.

 

Now, with regards to my chosen Legion in particular, the Alpha Legion, and my warband in particular:

 

Most of what we've heard about the Alpha Legion post-Heresy is written from an Imperial viewpoint. They don't know about Omegon, or the Cabal, or any of that. My personal interpretation of the fluff is that Alpharius was in fact killed by Guilliman on Eskrador. Omegon is still out there somewhere, but the rest of the Legion hears from him about as often as the Word Bearers hear from their primarch--which is basically never.

 

It's been ten thousand years since the Heresy and while most of the Alpha Legion stayed out of the Eye, some didn't. And the majority of those who didn't have lost sight of their original mission--to eradicate Chaos. What are their objectives now anyway, now that their original objectives have failed? Despite their best efforts Horus lost the war, so the Cabal's scenario for the destruction of Chaos can't be brought to fruition. So what happened? Did they just not try hard enough? Did the Cabal mislead them intentionally, pawns of the Ruinous Powers themselves?

 

I think the Imperium thinks the Alpha Legion is more coordinated, more focused than it actually is. That it has more direction than it actually does. In my headcanon, the Alpha Legion is as aimless as the rest of them, perhaps even more so. Other warbands have the Long War or the embrace of Chaos. Neither of those courses of action are conducive to the Alpha Legion's role in the Heresy...but what is left to them now?

 

Ultimately I think many of the old Alpha Legion have broken up into warbands based on whatever unit they were part of after Eskrador--lone operatives, cells, all the way up to companies. They pursue whatever objectives they devise on their own, without direction from a chain of command, as is their way. They change names and colors for any number of reasons, whether ideological or pragmatic. They recruit from wherever they can, much like other Chaos space marines. And each warband has only limited contact with others for all kinds of reasons, operational security bringing one big example.

 

My warband, the Omega Company, was once the 24th Company and is still led by the Captain. In my mind they're a rarity within the Legion in that they have held fast to the original mission, and steered clear of the predations of Chaos and the warp. They have three objectives:

 

1) Find the Cabal and put them to the question. If it is discovered they were misled into joining Horus, there will be a reckoning. Otherwise, they will use the Acuity again to give the Captain an alternate means to achieve the original objective of neutralizing Chaos.

 

2) Find Omegon and ascertain his status--whether or not he has been corrupted by Chaos. Hear his plan, if he has one, straight from him.

 

3) Search for alternative means to accomplish their mission. I've always been fascinated with the old Star Child / Sensei / Illuminati fluff...and so is my warband. They come to learn that the Illuminati believe killing the Sensei in some kind of ritual then killing the Emperor will allow His soul to reincarnate into the Sensei-Emperor, who after a period of short-term upheaval would lead the Imperium into a new golden age. Or, he would become a god of the warp in his own right, overpowering the Chaos Gods and destroying their hold over humanity.

 

Now while they remain loyal to the Emperor's ideals, they hate what his Imperium has become--a totalitarian regime run on fear and faith, where science is blasphemy. The very things he tried so hard to eradicate. They understand that it was necessary, men being the weak creatures they are, but that doesn't make it any more palatable.

 

And so the end result isn't too different from other Chaos warbands. Travels across the galaxy in pursuit of enigmatic objectives, occasionally coming into conflict with other warbands, xenos, or the Imperium. Weathered by attrition and internal power struggles as some of its members have other ideas for its future. Possible ultimate objective of killing the Emperor.

[incinerator950]

I recall there being a quote that Alpha Legion cells do have some organization, a dark architect so to speak. I assume that is Omegon.

 

Angron is the most publicized, Fulgrim killed more legitimate Primarchs. Perturabo and Lorgar are unheard but felt, and Mortarion hosts a world to refuel the various Plague fleets while occasionally venturing forth for a bit of fun.

[Phantomzero17]

I spent way more time then I should have thinking about this today after reading the OP.  But to be fair these are the usual sorts of things I think about when planning out further additions to my slowing growing force.

 

How do I see my legion?  A broken thing, a memory, but a banner to still call to whether it be for blood or belief.  When I get down to my particular warband I can say the same thing.  It is a lesser reflection of the legion as a whole.

 

Though Sorrow's Blade is still in midnight clad and the vessel bears the symbols of the 17th Company can the the marines within still say that company exists? Well I like to think that question would be answered differently by each Astartes on board.  And I personally I like to think it's a question the Captain has wrestled with for a very, very long time.

 

In the early days he would have clutched to the creed of "Ultio et Timor" as a means for continuing to fight the long war.  The words of his gene-father would still ring in his ears about how they'd spurn the Gods their allies fled to and how that they never wore the Emperor's aquilla and that they never would.  But now as the years turned to decades, and the decades to centuries on into millennia he would be in a much different place.  Though he does not outright worship the pantheon it cannot be said that there are none on board who do.  And even if he doesn't offer praise he knows he's been touched in someway and so has many of his men.  The ages since the Siege of Terra have not been kind and his warplate is no longer the same set he wore bringing compliance to worlds during the Great Crusade.  Scavenging materials from the dead and raiding for whatever else they needed has left many on board wearing suits decorated in ritually defaced Imperial iconography.  Even the dogs they train for war are no longer resemble the beasts that left Nostramo with them to conquer the stars.  The blood of Nostaman Mastiffs diluted by the inclusion of various breeds taken from Arbites stations, hive lords estates, and dog fighting rings found across the Imperium of man.  So no the 17th company doesn't quite mean the same now as it once did.

 

So then what keeps this band of marines together is it their Nostramo heritage?  No, not with the Terran origins of some of the legions marines but even less so now with the recruits that have been taken in the years they've been fighting the long war.  And what is the legion really to those souls now pressed into service, these slaves to circumstance?  Not all of them were criminals, thieves, rapists, or murders like their now brothers in arms.  How have they taken to the legions doctrines and thirst for vengeance against an Imperium that they didn't build, that they weren't wronged by, and that they didn't really lose a gene-father to?  Is it the Captain himself, the self titled Molossus, who keeps this merry band together?  Though he is a product of my creation I somehow doubt that.  This is the VIII Legion he didn't come to power through depth, leadership, or integrity.  No that oily *cuss* cheated his way through every honour/murder duel he could on his way to command.  Then I think I comes down to the wish to survive, and the want to do harm simply because they can.  From many places they may have come but they are Astartes and they are all bred for war.

 

So for now they stand in Midnight Clad.  They cover their armor in trophies, lightning, terror marks, bronze/iron chains, and occasionally red hands.  They will run from every fight they cannot win, and taste the fear of every mortal race they can sink their claws into.  They are the Night Lords of the 17th company and from blackest night, they come.

[Zeller]

***Word Bearers***

 

    Before their fall to Chaos, the Word Bearers were devout believers in the Emperor's work of reuniting Humanity under one banner and one world view. 

In a way I feel their desire to conquer human worlds through conversation and rhetoric was much more appropriate and wise than the militaristic approach of every other legion. The ability to convert an entire planet along with all of its resources and manpower to your cause without having to first rebuild and subjugate it 

through force of arms or threat of retaliation gave me the impression that the Word Bearers better understood what it was to be a warrior and a human being

even if they were trans-human. One does not need to fight if the ultimate goal is to change their opinion or get them to act the way you want them. So in short the are warriors, students, and public servants in some regards. 

 

    Post fall the Word Bearers became a bitter group as most traitor legions did. I now see them as parodies of their former selves to some degree. Where before they were warrior-orators they are now twisted by hate, arrogant in their beliefs, and live solely for selfish and malevolent purposes. They are a betrayed group that seeks justice from all who wronged them, embarrassed them, or were simply too blind or stupid to see and question the Emperor's half-spoken truths. Despite their ill-intentions they have at a most basic level retained their personality and sense of purpose even if the tune has changed. They are indomitable, curious about the Universe, and loyal to their beliefs. 

 

Although brief and perhaps not entirely adequate this is how I view my legion.

[Loesh]

These are very good and already showing a wide selection of ways to see the traitor legions.

 

How do you view Cultists working for those legions? the bread and butter humans that get tossed Autoguns and thrown at the enemy don't get a lot of screen time. How do you think they operate? My Warbands one of those 'idealistic' groups that actually train their cult troops, but in general I imagine the relation between the EC and Slaaneshi cults goes something like this:

 

Slaaneshi Cults are nothing new to the Imperium, by and large they sleep peacefully under  streets and in remote mansions outside the cityscape, over quite of few pieces of lore it becomes obvious that a lot of the Imperiums laws came about as a result of these organizations. Not nearly as obvious as the other gods they sleep seemingly lazy and carefree, their rituals may not even seem all that extreme as they worship the Darkling Prince by one of his thousands of names.

 

Every one of them is waiting.

 

When the Chaos Legions draw near these slumbering beasts slowly open their eyes, lazily stretching their limbs throughout the working class and social elite alike, transmissions are handed down from their dark masters to the more anarchistic and violent members of the organization. Guns are handed out to thugs, soldiers, and aristocrats united in the desire to grab every ounce of pleasure from what's about to come, all dancing to the same song in their head...in an Imperium full of no ones they are about to become a someone.

 

A new dawn rolls around to the tiny little planet as the servants of Slaanesh hover just outside, seemingly not having landed...and then it starts: A small sound that slowly builds into a cacophony that can be heard from space and the hour is finally here, the hour of pleasure and freedom and bloody revenge erupts through the streets, property cracks and bellows under krak grenades and rockets, palace walls fall down as inhumane monsters with men and women who care little for their own lives hop through the rubble. Glass windows shatter with peoples expectations while an endless tide of fanatics pour through the breach, bombs sound the charge for within this day a world goes from order to chaos.