How do you see your Legion?

[Loesh]

The meritocracy passage made me imagine a warband based on Atlas Shrugged.

 

Maybe there's some sort of cult out there in an Underwater base.

 

"No kings, but certainly chaos gods."

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

The Legions of the Horus Heresy are dead and gone. Never again will we see Thousand Sons in bright Red or Word Bearers in Ceramite Grey. Never again will the legions fight in ordered battle formations like they during the Crusade and the Heresy. The Legions of Chaos are what remain. They don't fight like a legion. Some may but the majority fight like a ragtag mob out of hell with very little common ground between groups and only their commander's indomitable will keeping them from losing their focus. The way I see it, the legions are still loosely united with everyone having varying categories of loyalty. Some might still be on their legion Homeworlds ready and waiting for their master's orders, some might be off raiding other, weaker Chaos factions and only be part of the legion in name and battle doctrine but will respond if the legion gathers, while some may have cut off ties completely. While most legions would fall under one of these categories their will always be offshoots that defy the norm. Such is the way of Chaos

 

The Black Legion, IMO, would be mostly united under the 2rd category. They do not all fight the same way and some may even go by a different name rather than Black Legion, but all will answer Abaddon's call and mobilize at his request. Yes, their are the Despoiler's personal Warbands that I guess could be called a central command and a few groups that have risked Abaddon's wrath but they are small in number compared to the rest of the legion.

 

The Word Bearers are mostly united, with the majority falling under the 1st Category but a few offshoots who follow radical doctrines that most Word Bearers would consider heresy.

 

Most of The Iron Warriors would probably fall under the 2nd and 3rd categories in that there is no firm central command but when Perturabo rings them up I would imagine most of them answer the call.

 

The Night Lords are fractured. They've never had firm leadership since Curze's death and many have abandoned the legion all together, taking the Black Oath or becoming their own self-styled warband while a good portion still cling towards their roots, The Night Lords are the only legion that I would truly say is irredeemably fractured. Unless my theory about Decimus is true.

 

The Alpha Legion are the most coherent legion yet the least coherent. They all operate under a shadowy directive that involves bringing harm to the Imperium. But what is that directive? Is Alpharius sitting somewhere in deep-space coordinating his legion's actions like a maniacal puppet master or do the legion cells simply follow their last set orders given to them by some guy with no name? We will never know.

 

The World Eaters fall into their own category. While they are occasionally united when Angron decides to invade the Materium other times they are roving Warbands who pray on each other more than anyone else. But as the 13th Crusade is launched, it seems they have finally mobilized into a legion again.

 

The Thousand Sons are also in their own little niche category, mostly because 90% of their legion can no longer think independently. The living legion is made up of a bunch of warrior-professors who would just as soon enjoy a good book as they would go to war. Numerically, I would say that most of the legion is united with the exception of Ahriman's Cabal and some radicals and offshoots like Khayon and Ashur-Kai who abandoned it. Not to say that they all sit around at Sortiarious waiting for Magnus to order them around but they seem follow some sort of high command even if they do things that don't affect the legion like selling their services. I guess the best way to describe them would be like the Knights Templar. They all go out and fight independently but are still part of the Order.

 

The Death Guard would mostly fall under a hybrid of category 1-2. While most are simply death bringers, floating around the galaxy at their own whim their would be some who operate on the Plague Planet.

 

The Emperor's Children are the other fractured legion. They made to many enemies during the legion war and they paid the price. They were beaten and grinned down to a couple roaming Warbands with no central command as Fulgrim had abandoned them. They remained one of the smallest legions up until now where they have been seen more often. Who could be commanding them? Has Fulgrim returned or have they given up past grudges and thrown in with Abaddon or another powerful Lord?

[Loesh]

 

The Night Lords are fractured. They've never had firm leadership since Curze's death and many have abandoned the legion all together, taking the Black Oath or becoming their own self-styled warband while a good portion still cling towards their roots, The Night Lords are the only legion that I would truly say is irredeemably fractured. Unless my theory about Decimus is true.

 

 

 

If I had a second favorite legion, it'd probably be the Night Lords...which is interesting, because the Night Lords don't actually win that often and will, a lot of times, either run or be defeated by a force on equal footing with them. I find it's an interesting character study, as it shows how a group of people can be awesome without coming on top that often, how they can be badass without being badass if you will. In a way you can say this about all the Legions really, they have 'Lost' to one degree or another since the Horus Heresy, even the Black Legion's successes are more the successes of the other Legions when they work together because the original Sons of Horus are mostly dead and gone.

 

It gives them this sort of ragtag underdog feel that I really like.

[Loesh]

*Stretch*

 

Well it's been awhile since I added to this topic, and i'v had some time to mull things over for awhile. Something i'v found interesting is the sort of contrast between Chaos Space Marine Legions and Loyalist Legions in the 41st millennium. It's kind of cool really, that it's probably more likely to see several companies(If more disorganized companies.) on one planet at one time because they don't adhere to the Codex, or how while CSM can be completely petty pure evil, they also can be extremely introspective and thought provoking because they haven't gone through the extensive brainwashing that was implemented after the Horus Heresy. I got to thinking, the legions being split nine for nine isn't just for evenness, but because in many ways certain legions are dark mirrors of each other, even if they don't have rivalries between them, I.E: Black Legion and Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Emperors Children, Iron Warriors and Iron hands, etc.

 

Going first: The Blood Angels are an interesting group, tactically speaking they actually don't have much in common with the Emperors Children, the Blood Angels were excellent shock troops and prefer close combat where the Emperors Children were all rounders. They had dedicated squads which were very good at what they did, but for the most part they fit the classic definition of a Super Soldier and were trained to deal with about any style of war and any weapons without any inexperience. Their views on culture are however very similar, they both take pride in artwork and music, things that other legions felt were frivolous were to them the whole reason they were fighting. As Fulgrim once said to the Gorgon that if they could not appreciate beauty then they would never appreciate the stars they were trying to win back for their father, though where the Blood Angels have done this to understand the humanity they have distanced themselves from, the Emperors Children have in many ways done it so that they become closer to humans and thus their baser nature.

 

I think probably my favorite way they mirror is "Darkness vs Light." and how the positions are actually reversed from what you would normally think of them. The Blood Angels are a very dark group of individuals, with ties to Vamperism and an inner monster like nature that they must constantly fight, and yet they are also one of the most revered legions. Their primarch has a holiday after him, generally outside certain successor chapters they are a noble and idealistic lot, the monster that crushes them from the inside can actually be fought off or at least placated, yet despite that monsters origins laying in the past it does not stop them from looking towards that past and even revering it. In contrast, the Emperors Children mock the past, they tarnish it whenever they can, they wear their name and the Aquilia proudly...because it contrasts so heavily with who they are now. Where the Blood Angels rejected their monster the Emperors Children embraced it...but their monster was not some ravening beast, no..it was humanity itself, in becoming so close to man they had become these terrible beings, capable of such cruelty that even the Night Lords would take pause. Yet they are a very 'bright' legion, indeed their names often reflect bright colors, loud sounds, or are even just flat out named after light or stars...yet it is a terrible light indeed, for their colors are so bright that they boil peoples eyes inside their very sockets.

 

They are the same in ways, yet they could not be more different.

[hummus]

Blood angels would be a dark version of world eaters surely?

Blood for the blood god

Death company equals blood mad berzerkers

[Loesh]

Blood angels would be a dark version of world eaters surely?

Blood for the blood god

Death company equals blood mad berzerkers

 

Kind of-ish? Combat wise they share much more in common, but not so much in how they operate culture wise...except for the Flesh Tearers obviously. I always felt the World Eaters mirror would most likely be the Space Wolves, both have a barbaric nature but they go about it in much different ways, the difference between a noble savage and a just plain savage.

[Paradigm]

I see the Night Lords as being an organization united by traditions and blood more than anything else. Really I think to some extent all of the legions are like this. They aren't the legions they were when the heresy was in full swing, but they haven't gone extinct. Which is an accomplishment that many other warbands cannot claim. They have evolved. Sometimes they have become something so different that they no longer resemble their heritage, and their traditions bear only loose resemblance to their origins.

 

There are many warbands wearing many colors, but not all of them are just warbands. Some like feudal lords owe fealty to greater powers. Maybe they do not even acknowledge the fact that they are pieces of a larger whole, but they are. The most powerful of a legion can by might try to call together his lesser brethren. Though whether or not they answer is irrelevant. They are still a part of the legion. The Night Lords embody this like any other. Some warbands don't even make war in midnight clad, but they are still Night Lord warbands. Think of it like clans of single nation. Just because they are all a part of the same nation and people, doesn't mean they all agree or even fight on the same side. Their loyalties are divided. Thus is the fate of the Legions.

 

I think of the Night Lords as true pragmatists. No other Legion was willing to acknowledge the truth of their being. They had no desire to waste their time praying to hungry gods or idealizing hypocritical institutions. They've seen the benefit of embodying the hypocrisy and being hungrier. They made war not out of spite, nor desire, nor even hatred. They made war because they were made to; because it is what they were designed to do. When other legions were busy winning hearts and minds the Night Lords were eating hearts and minds. They pounded like thunder and gave death to those that sought it. They made no deceptions. They did not do things the hard way or make gentlemanly agreements. They were practical, and did things the easy way. They worked smarter. They wore the lives they took as badges not of honor but of the pure horror that war is and will always be, and painted their faces with the icons of what they were.

 

In 10,000 years this has simply been amplified, and while some in the legion have chosen to waste their time, as a whole the legion remains dedicated to the inalienable fact that they were created, and designed to be angels of death, and have endured simply to live up to their creators intent.

[Son of Carnelian]

The Thousand Sons are the most tragic figures in the entire 41st millennium. 

 

Ignore their betrayal and defeat at the hands of the Space Wolves. While horrific, such betrayals got doled out evenly in the Heresy and the Thousand Sons gave far better than most. No, their tragedy comes from within, at the hands of Ahriman and the impossible choice that they made so that their legion might live, if their existence now bears any resemblance to "life."

 

The human factions of the 41st millennium represent two extremes. The Imperium represents total, brutal authority. They control their masses with an iron fist, crushing any and all dissent with impunity. Worlds get scoured of life the instant any significant heresy rises up. Whole sectors burn on the whims of an Inquisition relying on their total command of them Imperium's forces and woefully incomplete information. To live in such conditions brings to mind Orwell's 1984, except magnified a hundredfold. Nothing you do goes beyond the sight of some section of the Imperium and no amount of rebellion will ever change anything. Despite their ignorance, the Imperium retains total control over the lives of their people, with only a few rare exceptions. Yet in a twisted way, this has its merits. Security, even security as unreliable as the Imperium, beats getting devoured by the yawning maw of the Warp. 

 

Chaos however, represents anarchy. Complete lawlessness and madness reign amongst the Warp-fueled traitors, ensuring that no work of theirs will ever last more than an instant before succumbing to a vengeful Imperium or the predations of their fellow heretics. It shifts constantly, remolding its devotees and makes reality and order its playthings. However, within this madness lies freedom. True freedom, unfettered by laws or oaths, beholden only to other men and whatever god you choose as your patron. Chaos offers choice where the Imperium offers none. 

 

The Thousand Sons stand between the two extremes, with none of the advantages offered by either and suffering the disadvantages of both. They cannot embrace the gifts of Chaos fully because they have closed themselves off from its mutating touch forever. Over half their legion has no will, without the choices or freedoms that should come with devoting themselves to Chaos. And yet they cannot rejoin the Imperium. They have been caught in the middle with neither freedom nor security. The ultimate irony and tragedy of the Thousand Sons' existence is that they have become exactly what the mortals of the Imperium would wish of Space Marines. Unflinching, utterly loyal, without any regard for honor or status, merely automatons skilled in the arts of war. 

 

The most tragic legion. Outcasts among outcasts, prisoners in a realm of freedom. 

[Loesh]

I actually really like that take on the Thousand Sons, it makes a lot of sense.

[Son of Carnelian]

I actually really like that take on the Thousand Sons, it makes a lot of sense.

 

Thanks man. I've had that in my head for years.

[Slips]

Well Sampson, you pretty much summed up how I view the Thousand Sons and why I like them so. Bravo.

[Loesh]

I was starting to worry that maybe I was unjustified in bringing the topic up again, but the perspective on that is immensely interesting. Really this is why I like the 40k setting for Chaos, you can see so many symbols and perspectives from the individual legions and how they have changed over the last 10,000 years. While the Horus Heresy was immensely cool, it was ultimately just one tiny event for these legions who have been rapidly changing into something...new...in the Eye of Terror, for the Thousand Sons their great tragedy isn't what happens during the Heresy, it is what happens after it.

 

All the Chaos Legions have this to an extent, and as the End Times draw near Cadia is broken open and these Fallen Angels pour their way into realspace. Seemingly numberless, bloated on raided geneseed, ancient technology, extraordinary heroes, powerful magical artifacts, and Chapters that have turned renegade over the centuries. As we look on each legion in turn, we see how drastically they have changed from their previous forms...and the coolest part? we've not even scratched the surface of that 10,000 year background and what Chaos is bringing to the table for the end times.

[Chaos Lord Rakarial 20]

My homebrew warband/chaos legiom the soul reavers are pirates and zealots in the extreme. They are a former Ultramarines successor who in M:34 turned to chaos after the Dark Master Belakor opened their eyes to the truth. Taking their geneseed with them and raiding several vaults theu have been able to increase in size to the point modern day they number 10000 only 70% of the marines have the same Geneseed as the Legion Master Rakarial while the other 30% are made from stolen geneseed. The legion mostly worships chaos undivided but roughly 20% of the legion worships one of the 4 gods. They also have alliances with a few other warbands and legions