space wolves unleashed - choosing to join a unit after roll

[skeletoro]

Does this work?

 

Take 6 rune priests, 3 iron priests and 3 rhinos in a space wolves unleashed detachment.

 

Choose not to join the ICs to troops units as per the detachment stipulation.

 

After determining which un-joined ICs and transports have outflank, join those ICs with the non-troops units that you want to confer the outflank rule to. E.g. a unit of wolf guard. If you get an outflanking rhino, have an objective secured unit of grey hunters (from a separate CAD) outflank inside it.

 

This way, you'd be fairly likely to see at least one IC and/or transport get outflank, even though they need to roll a 6. You then get to choose which squad benefits from the rule because you join the ICs and put the units in the transports after rolling.

 

This seems to get around the annoyance of not knowing in advance who is going to be outflanking, and therefore, not being able to tool up a specific unit to make the most of it (e.g. lots of plasma or melta, etc).

 

I'm not sure it would be worth doing this even if it does work. Drop pods get to deep strike 100% of the time and you get them earlier. But it has been something I have been mulling over, anyway.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, tricky question. Codex states that you have to announce which IC will start the game with which unit. Given that after the rolls you would be going back on that announcement and change it, I'd say it is not possible, possibly to stop shenanigans like that.

After the game starts you can not redeploy into reserve to outflank. My verdict is that this is impossible because you have to state who joins whom before you make any rolls, but maybe I have missed something.

[skeletoro]

you have to state which hq is joined to which troops choice, if any.

 

maybe they need to amend it so that it is clear that this applies to all joining and all embarkation too? Currently it doesn't though.

[Frater Cornelius]

Yeah, I guess that what you said is RAI, but certainly not RAW. I would talk it through with my opponent. If anything, I hate exploiting vague rules. It's not the warrior's way. That's Eldar nonsense.

[pedrogzc]

I don't see any problem.

 

You roll for each unit, each that gets a 6's have outflank... You still haven't deployed anything neither have joined your IC to units, so when you'll start  deployment you are able to select what IC joins your units and your type of deployment.

 

I see it more like a non abuse of 4+ roll to get flanking on Troops. But RAW nothing prevents you of doing as you stated.

[Squark]

I don't see an issue. I mean, yes, you have the potential to get a bunch of stuff with outflank, but you're spending 400 points on independant characters, you're at the mercy of the dice, and those rhinos don't have objective secured (Tank shocking people off of objectives while being objective secured is what's brought the rhino back into the competitive metagame).

 

So, yeah, it totally works, I just don't see the point.

[skeletoro]

I guess maybe it'd be more worth doing with the rhinos due to their cheap cost. And they'd stand to benefit from auto-success on reserves.

Similarly it may be worth taking any storm GRR fliers in such a manner instead of taking them as dedicated transports. Outflank may help get rear armour with anti tank fire and they would definitely benefit from the auto-success.

The main cost would be you'd have to take two non objective secured troops choices as a minimum requirement. I guess at that point, you may as well take something like:

Barebones rune priest

Barebones iron priest

2 minimum size grey hunters or blood claws units

2 dedicated transport storm wolves.

The two troops units would have a 4+ outflank and each flier would have its own 6+ roll, too. That's a 7/12 chance of outflank for each flier (meaning about 82% chance of one or both outflanking) and qualifying for the auto-success on reserves.

Of course you're sinking an extra 120 points or more into each flier and the passengers don't have objsec.

Not sure it's really viable. Just brainstorming, more than anything

[Karack Blackstone]

Does this work?

 

Take 6 rune priests, 3 iron priests and 3 rhinos in a space wolves unleashed detachment.

 

Choose not to join the ICs to troops units as per the detachment stipulation.

 

After determining which un-joined ICs and transports have outflank, join those ICs with the non-troops units that you want to confer the outflank rule to. E.g. a unit of wolf guard. If you get an outflanking rhino, have an objective secured unit of grey hunters (from a separate CAD) outflank inside it.

 

This way, you'd be fairly likely to see at least one IC and/or transport get outflank, even though they need to roll a 6. You then get to choose which squad benefits from the rule because you join the ICs and put the units in the transports after rolling.

 

This seems to get around the annoyance of not knowing in advance who is going to be outflanking, and therefore, not being able to tool up a specific unit to make the most of it (e.g. lots of plasma or melta, etc).

 

I'm not sure it would be worth doing this even if it does work. Drop pods get to deep strike 100% of the time and you get them earlier. But it has been something I have been mulling over, anyway.

 

Any IC that joins a Troops Unit affects the die roll, thus, joining after the fact invalidates your roll and means if you're pulling such shenanigens you must reroll, and now you get a 4+ rather than a 6+ on the new roll.

 

I think this is pretty clear from a Russ point of view: this action is not in the spirit of fair play.

 

At least this is how I see it.

[skeletoro]

In some ways that would be BETTER than what I am suggesting...

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Does this work?

 

Take 6 rune priests, 3 iron priests and 3 rhinos in a space wolves unleashed detachment.

 

Choose not to join the ICs to troops units as per the detachment stipulation.

 

After determining which un-joined ICs and transports have outflank, join those ICs with the non-troops units that you want to confer the outflank rule to. E.g. a unit of wolf guard. If you get an outflanking rhino, have an objective secured unit of grey hunters (from a separate CAD) outflank inside it.

 

This way, you'd be fairly likely to see at least one IC and/or transport get outflank, even though they need to roll a 6. You then get to choose which squad benefits from the rule because you join the ICs and put the units in the transports after rolling.

 

This seems to get around the annoyance of not knowing in advance who is going to be outflanking, and therefore, not being able to tool up a specific unit to make the most of it (e.g. lots of plasma or melta, etc).

 

I'm not sure it would be worth doing this even if it does work. Drop pods get to deep strike 100% of the time and you get them earlier. But it has been something I have been mulling over, anyway.

 

Any IC that joins a Troops Unit affects the die roll, thus, joining after the fact invalidates your roll and means if you're pulling such shenanigens you must reroll, and now you get a 4+ rather than a 6+ on the new roll.

 

I think this is pretty clear from a Russ point of view: this action is not in the spirit of fair play.

 

At least this is how I see it.

 

 

In some ways that would be BETTER than what I am suggesting...

 

Skeletoro, please reread the WUD rules; it pretty clearly states that any troops unit that has an IC attached gains a +2 on the roll, turning it into a 4+ rather than a 6+.

 

The other rather nasty effect of guarenteed reserves starting on turn two means Troops units attached by an IC riding in a Stormwolf will be arriving for sure, and a second if taken arrives from reserve with outflank on a 4+, normally if the roll is not made.

 

Skipping the shenanigens stage of rolling first, then attaching an IC, and then rerolling the chance to outflank is actually just taking time that can be more easily used for gaming if one just takes an IC and adds them to a Troop unit.  Sticking this unit into a Stormwolf or Stormfang means that one arrives for sure, 4+ for outflank as well, and one arrives if the reserve roll is made at 3+, 4+ for an additional outflank flyer.  That's two fliers arriving in one turn.  I'm pretty sure that is what was intended with the WUD rules; it's pretty painful.

[skeletoro]

It says you only roll the die for each unit in the formation. Troops from other detachments presumably don't roll... although now I wonder whether a unit counts as 'from' the detachment if the joined IC, but not the troops choice itself, is from the formation?

 

As I said, if that's how it works and you can give a 4+ roll to troops from other detachments, it is a lot better. I agree that that would be pretty painful.

[Karack Blackstone]

It says you only roll the die for each unit in the formation. Troops from other detachments presumably don't roll... although now I wonder whether a unit counts as 'from' the detachment if the joined IC, but not the troops choice itself, is from the formation?

 

As I said, if that's how it works and you can give a 4+ roll to troops from other detachments, it is a lot better. I agree that that would be pretty painful.

 

I think both units, the IC and the Troops choice, must both come from the WUD formation and its inclusive FOC table.

 

Yes, this is pretty beastly; the problem is that there are what, four IC choices maximum in the WUD?  That's up to four Troops choices that can go 4+, and the rest of the units per the rules can go 6+ if allowed.

 

Four IC + Troops choices Outflanking on a 4+ could be two Rhinos, and two Stormwolves, as stated previously.  Painful is the right word, I think: there's enough coming on from the flanks of the table that the enemy might well be hard pressed as to how to respond.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

If you have the points you could have up to 10 ICs in a WUD. 6 HQ, 3 iron priest, 1 Lukas. 6 could be attached to troops for the 4+.

[skeletoro]

If you're sacrificing ObjSec to do this I actually don't think it is all that great.