Is the Grey Knights Brotherhood formation worth taking?

[gk1989]

To me the formation looks a little haphazard. It forces you to take a bunch of stuff that is sub par for the slot. I understand that in apocalypse, the only game size you can field this formation, slot allocation doesn't matter, but the only real benefit to the formation is generating psychic charges on a 3+ instead of a 4+. While that is a really cool thing, it is vastly outweighed by the fact that one has to field in addition to a grand master, or possibly Draigo depending on the interpretation of the rules, a brother captain and brotherhood champion (the champion is only there for challenges, and the brother captain is just a handicapped grand master) 3 strike squads (models better spent purifiers), 2 interceptor squads ( this is arguably a good choice depending on game settings) 2 purgation squads (purifiers take the same number of special weapons and have holy flame nova), a dreadnought (slot and points better spent on purifiers or paladins). The way I look at the army and its codex, the best bang for your buck is going to come from librarians to focus all of the warp charges, terminators that are cheap and deep striking, and NDK's which are the new black. If you have a bunch of non deep striking unites (read purifiers) I have found using the NSF and CAD together can facilitate all of the rules you need. You are able to get the deep strike turn 1 on the stuff that needs it, and if it matters, get objective secured on a couple of troop choices (not the main reason to take the CAD, but still a benefit). If the formation required fewer specific units and allowed a little more flexibility to work with it would be much better, but at a minimum of 2045 points with minimum squad size, no equipment or supplemental troops outside of the formation, including no librarians, paladins or purifiers, I just don't see that being worth it at any point level.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's a trap!

 

/Admiral Akbar

 

Not worth it in the slightest.

 

Don't bother, even in Apoc.  And who plays Apoc any more?  Just play a normal game with 200,000 points and let everyone run Unbound. ;)

[Lucien Eilam]

It's a regular Formation, not an Apocalypse Datasheet. If you had the points, you could take it in normal 40k.

 

It's obviously for people who want to play a Brotherhood according to the background, not people who just want to press "paste" ten times and call it a day. I wouldn't expect it to be highly competitive.

[Rurik the blessed]

I did the sum...

 

It is almost 2300 pts... so, you can play at 2500 pts easily...

 

I think it would be very interesting to play with it. Even more when they force you to play with units you usually don't.

[Rurik the blessed]

Something like this

+++ Brotherhood (2455pts) +++
+++ 1850pt Grey Knights: Codex (2014) Roster (Unbound Army (Faction))) +++

Selections:

Grey Knights: Codex (2014) (Unbound Army (Faction)) Selections:

+ No Battle Role (HQ) + (560pts)

    * Brother-Captain (190pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock), Iron Halo, Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon, Psyker [ML 1] (Daemonology (Sanctic), Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, Telepathy), Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, Relentless, *), The Soul Glaive (Replace Melee weapon) (Soul Imprint)


    * Brotherhood Champion (150pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Heroic Sacrifice, Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis, The Perfect Warrior)
        Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock), Iron Halo, Master-crafted Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane, Master-crafted), Psyker [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Storm bolter


    * Grand Master (220pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Cuirass of Sacrifice (Replace TDA), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock), Iron Halo, Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon (20pts), Psyker [ML 2] (Daemonology (Sanctic), Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, Telepathy), Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, Relentless, *)


+ No Battle Role (Elites) + (150pts)

    * Dreadnought (150pts)
        (Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Plasma cannon, Powerfist with built-in storm bolter, Psychic Pilot [ML 1] (Banishment, Sanctuary), Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Venerable Dreadnought upgrade (Venerable)


+ No Battle Role (Troops) + (954pts)

    * Strike Squad (115pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Deep Strike, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock)
        * Grey Knight (incinerator)
            Incinerator
        * 3x Grey Knight (sword)
            3x Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
        * Justicar
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Strike Squad (115pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Deep Strike, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock)
        * Grey Knight (incinerator)
            Incinerator
        * 3x Grey Knight (sword)
            3x Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
        * Justicar
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Strike Squad (115pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Deep Strike, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock)
        * Grey Knight (incinerator)
            Incinerator
        * 3x Grey Knight (sword)
            3x Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
        * Justicar
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Terminator Squad (203pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, Relentless, *)
        * Terminator (falchions)
            2x Nemesis falchion (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (halberd)
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (hammer)
            Nemesis Daemon hammer (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (psycannon) 
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon
        * Terminator Justicar
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Terminator Squad (203pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, Relentless, *)
        * Terminator (falchions)
            2x Nemesis falchion (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (halberd)
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (hammer)
            Nemesis Daemon hammer (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (psycannon)
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon
        * Terminator Justicar
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Terminator Squad (203pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Terminator Armour (Bulky, Deep Strike, Relentless, *)
        * Terminator (falchions)
            2x Nemesis falchion(Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (halberd)
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (hammer) 
            Nemesis Daemon hammer (Daemonbane), Storm bolter
        * Terminator (psycannon) 
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon
        * Terminator Justicar 
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


+ No Battle Role (Fast Attack) + (286pts)

    * Interceptor Squad (143pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Deep Strike, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock), Personal teleporters
        * 3x Interceptor (halberd)
            3x Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
        * Interceptor (incinerator)
            Incinerator
        * Interceptor Justicar
            Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Interceptor Squad (143pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Deep Strike, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock), Personal teleporters
        * 3x Interceptor (halberd)
            3x Nemesis force halberd (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
        * Interceptor (incinerator)
            Incinerator
        * Interceptor Justicar
            Nemesis force halberd(Daemonbane), Storm bolter


+ No Battle Role (Heavy Support) + (505pts)

    * Nemesis Dreadknight (205pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Deep Strike, Force Shielding, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter (30pts), Psyker [ML 1] (Banishment, Sanctuary)


    * Purgation Squad (150pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Night Vision, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock)
        * 4x Purgator (psilencer)
            4x Psilencer
        * Purgator Justicar
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter


    * Purgation Squad (150pts)
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Night Vision, Preferred Enemy (Daemons), Purity of Spirit, The Aegis)
        Brotherhood of Psykers [ML 1] (Banishment, Hammerhand), Frag, Krak and Psyk-out grenades (Psi-shock)
        * 4x Purgator (psilencer)
            4x Psilencer
        * Purgator Justicar
            Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter

++ EDIT. Removed individual upgrade points costs. (Don't ever post those!) t++

[jeffersonian000]

I think it would be fun to build to, but not necessary to actually go out of your way to field. Now, if I had all those models, and could convence someone else to play against it, it'd be a fun game. However, if I just build up my army towards playing the Brotherhood, then I would have more than enough models to play just about any reasonable points level or army composition. It'd still be fun, though.

 

SJ

[Captain Coolpants]

Would be cool to harness warp charges on a 3...And will also be fun playing a completely different list. But don't expect to do well

[jeffersonian000]

Would be cool to harness warp charges on a 3...And will also be fun playing a completely different list. But don't expect to do well

Oh, I concur. The Brotherhood formation is not optimized, at all. For the same points, I'd expect to be curb stomped something fiece by just about any other army. Yet, in a huge game versus a similarly handicapped opponent, we all know we'd have a blast.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's the worst Formation they've ever written. You have zero control over which units you can select, about half the army doesn't make use of 'Rites of Teleportation' effectively, no Purifiers...and I'll add, the only unique buff you get is that you harness WC on a 3+. That's it. 

 

So no, don't ever use it. Take Nemesis Strikeforces and build your own superior Brotherhood, using unit selections and combos you like, not the silly forced choices. You won't even notice the loss of 3+ to harness. 

[casb1965]

It's the worst Formation they've ever written. You have zero control over which units you can select, about half the army doesn't make use of 'Rites of Teleportation' effectively, no Purifiers...and I'll add, the only unique buff you get is that you harness WC on a 3+. That's it. 

 

So no, don't ever use it. Take Nemesis Strikeforces and build your own superior Brotherhood, using unit selections and combos you like, not the silly forced choices. You won't even notice the loss of 3+ to harness. 

 

On rolling 2 dice to harness the 3+ gives you a 88.89% chance against 75% for 4+ a difference of 13.89% (it's 8.8% better with 3 dice), which is significantly better but it's still not worth the cost of having to take the Formation.

[THE PORTCULLIS]

This formation is noncompetitive and just for fun. If rolling Warp Charges on a 3+ is what passes for fun these days. Personally that double page could have been better spent were it filled with more nicely painted models to inspire me, because as it is I'm going to use that double page just as much as I will use purgations squads/castelan crowe (never).

[Rurik the blessed]

I think the Nemesis Vanguard should have a formation dataslate.