Talon of Horus

[TheOtherSide]

*Psst, that is because Blood Angels are vampires*

Though the lroe does not say that they are immortal. They just have a significantly increased life span, and reching ages of 1,000 years is not uncommon, with Dante being alleged to be older than 1,100 years.

Ha ha, yes. I guess that's GW's stereotype for the Blood Angels, especially since the introduction of Mephistion

[tdemayo]

So I've read Talon of Horus. (Belatedly, but I waited for the ebook.) Here are some random thoughts, in the hope they will be of interest, and give ABD some reader feedback, if he is lurking around:

 

*spoilers*

 

 

 

 

1) I greatly enjoyed Talon. I think it's the best BL novel in years. Anything else negative I may say is just a quibble, compared to this central response.

 

2) I'm so happy it's in the first person. I'm a sucker for a good first person novel, and have been since the Amber novels, and the Eisenhorn series. Some people find them gimicky, but I find that well-crafted, the first person gives an instant sense of voice and personality, of depth and versimilitude. The first person narrator can convey his attitude towards the world in all kinds of subtle ways.

 

2) It was great to see this novel written from a perspective other than Abaddon's. I think the great figures of the 30k/40k setting are more satisfyingly seen from the outside. As viewpoint characters, Primarchs and generals are constrained. If they do planning and leadership, it's dull. If they chop things up in hand to hand, it's rather ridiculous. Why aren't they directing strategy? Plus, there's the problem that a primarchs or genius becomes more mundane, and less impressive, if you see through their eyes. Better to view them in the reflection and awe of other characters.

 

3) The scene with the Astronomicon was a standout. I think ABD has the best take on matters metaphysical in the 40k universe. Dan Abnett is better at depicting Chaos societies, like the Blood Pact, but ABD is best at at making the existing mythology come alive, and exploring its metaphysics.

 

4) I was very pleased by Abaddon. Until now, I've never liked him. He's always seemed like a brutal, unsubtle jerk. My formative memories of him are from a) an old BFG novel where he's riding up an elevator and his bodyguards cut off the head of a slave who didn't lower his eyes and b) from Horus Rising where he argues for exterminating the Interex, just because. In the HH novels, he hasnt exhibited much subtly or refletion either.

 

The Abaddon of ToH however is smart, reflective, charismatic, and humble. (Kindly Uncle Abaddon's Night at the Museum maybe depicted him as a bit too humble and excentric, but overall I really appreciated this new approach.) This is a Horus I'd follow, and even want to see win.

 

5) I thought the Eye was well portayed. Daemon worlds can often be just too silly, breaking my suspension of disbelief. (Barrington Bailey's Eye of Terror comes to mind.) But the Eye was strange, without being just too surreal.

 

Now to move on to more trivial matters:

 

6) I may be interpreting this wrong, but it seems that in ABD's interpretation, when people die, their souls melt back into the warp, and that this may be temporarily painful, but ends in the dissolution of their identity. If this is so, it sort of takes some of the sting oit of the Warp for me. There's no eternity of conscious torment for damned souls? In a way, it makes Chaos seem more natural, and less Hellish.

 

7) Kayon, you will sit in the Blue Chair!

 

8) I thought that after we meet Horus, the plot moves a bit too fast, and I found it implausible how easily the newly-forged proto-Black Legion achieved its goals. For example, I thought it was unlikely that the Vengeful Spirit could be commanded by what was, essentially, a more advanced bio-computer. Doesn't it still need slaves to shovel space-coal and grease the giant cogs, and whatever the hell else the thousands of crew do on enormous city-sized spaceships? I would have found it more plausible if Abaddon had had a retinue and crew waiting in reserve.

 

9) After the Heresy and Legion Wars, how do the Traitors have enough Marines left to wage war anyway? They don't seem keen on recruiting or replacing, but they die in every battle. Even with time dilation, there can't be many Veterans of the Heresy left by M41. I used to think maybe the warp reduplicated CSMs, so that the same traitors emerged from the Eye over and over, but this seems not to be the case.

 

10) I almost felt ... hopeful at the prospect of a legion victory. 40k's universe has been stuck for so long, that even if a new Chaos Imperium would be terrible for an averge human, it could lead to a rejuvenation of sorts, maybe even some technological/demonic engine progrsss.

 

11) Oddly, I had very little emotional response to Abaddon's duel with the clone-Horus, besides wanting to see how it reflected on Abaddon's character.

 

 

Sorry for the typos. I'm trying to type on my phone.

[mc warhammer]

I might be remembering HR incorrectly, but I didn't think that Abaddon was a mindless brute in the first HH novel. uncompromising yes. xenophobic sure. but scenes like the mournival induction showed his more personable and reasonable qualities. when he objected to the interex, it was not "just because", it was that it went against everything the emperor stood for.

 

going against everything the emperor stood for suddenly became his favourite thing in FG though. but y'know...consistency is a myth in 40k

[tdemayo]

I think Abaddon came off poorly in the original trilogy, which had to establish Horus and Loken foremost. There's only so much attention to go around.

 

Tom

 

Also, it's petty of me, but I think my opinion of Abaddon increased in ToH as soon as I saw he wasn't wearing that damned fool top knot. (There was a time in GW history when the dude with the biggest thing on his head was obviously the leader. Vide, original Nagash.)

[Phoebus]

I mean, I hear you... but... somehow, Little Horus came off as a far more nuanced character despite receiving just as little coverage as Abaddon.  I'm pretty sure it's fair to say that Abaddon comes off poorly in the Horus Heresy novels because, well, he's portrayed as little more than a curmudgeon who is eager to get into battle and has a short fuse.

[mc warhammer]

eh. i'm only talking about abaddon from HR. i'm reasonably sure he was replaced by a clone with the same name and different personality in between that and FG for the rest of the HH series. loken, horus and lucius were all similarly given stunt doubles. i'm still waiting for that story to be released as a special limited edition novella.

[Vesper]

So I've read Talon of Horus. (Belatedly, but I waited for the ebook.) Here are some random thoughts, in the hope they will be of interest, and give ABD some reader feedback, if he is lurking around:

*spoilers*

1) I greatly enjoyed Talon. I think it's the best BL novel in years. Anything else negative I may say is just a quibble, compared to this central response.

2) I'm so happy it's in the first person. I'm a sucker for a good first person novel, and have been since the Amber novels, and the Eisenhorn series. Some people find them gimicky, but I find that well-crafted, the first person gives an instant sense of voice and personality, of depth and versimilitude. The first person narrator can convey his attitude towards the world in all kinds of subtle ways.

2) It was great to see this novel written from a perspective other than Abaddon's. I think the great figures of the 30k/40k setting are more satisfyingly seen from the outside. As viewpoint characters, Primarchs and generals are constrained. If they do planning and leadership, it's dull. If they chop things up in hand to hand, it's rather ridiculous. Why aren't they directing strategy? Plus, there's the problem that a primarchs or genius becomes more mundane, and less impressive, if you see through their eyes. Better to view them in the reflection and awe of other characters.

3) The scene with the Astronomicon was a standout. I think ABD has the best take on matters metaphysical in the 40k universe. Dan Abnett is better at depicting Chaos societies, like the Blood Pact, but ABD is best at at making the existing mythology come alive, and exploring its metaphysics.

4) I was very pleased by Abaddon. Until now, I've never liked him. He's always seemed like a brutal, unsubtle jerk. My formative memories of him are from a) an old BFG novel where he's riding up an elevator and his bodyguards cut off the head of a slave who didn't lower his eyes and from Horus Rising where he argues for exterminating the Interex, just because. In the HH novels, he hasnt exhibited much subtly or refletion either.

The Abaddon of ToH however is smart, reflective, charismatic, and humble. (Kindly Uncle Abaddon's Night at the Museum maybe depicted him as a bit too humble and excentric, but overall I really appreciated this new approach.) This is a Horus I'd follow, and even want to see win.

5) I thought the Eye was well portayed. Daemon worlds can often be just too silly, breaking my suspension of disbelief. (Barrington Bailey's Eye of Terror comes to mind.) But the Eye was strange, without being just too surreal.

Now to move on to more trivial matters:

6) I may be interpreting this wrong, but it seems that in ABD's interpretation, when people die, their souls melt back into the warp, and that this may be temporarily painful, but ends in the dissolution of their identity. If this is so, it sort of takes some of the sting oit of the Warp for me. There's no eternity of conscious torment for damned souls? In a way, it makes Chaos seem more natural, and less Hellish.

7) Kayon, you will sit in the Blue Chair!

8) I thought that after we meet Horus, the plot moves a bit too fast, and I found it implausible how easily the newly-forged proto-Black Legion achieved its goals. For example, I thought it was unlikely that the Vengeful Spirit could be commanded by what was, essentially, a more advanced bio-computer. Doesn't it still need slaves to shovel space-coal and grease the giant cogs, and whatever the hell else the thousands of crew do on enormous city-sized spaceships? I would have found it more plausible if Abaddon had had a retinue and crew waiting in reserve.

9) After the Heresy and Legion Wars, how do the Traitors have enough Marines left to wage war anyway? They don't seem keen on recruiting or replacing, but they die in every battle. Even with time dilation, there can't be many Veterans of the Heresy left by M41. I used to think maybe the warp reduplicated CSMs, so that the same traitors emerged from the Eye over and over, but this seems not to be the case.

10) I almost felt ... hopeful at the prospect of a legion victory. 40k's universe has been stuck for so long, that even if a new Chaos Imperium would be terrible for an averge human, it could lead to a rejuvenation of sorts, maybe even some technological/demonic engine progrsss.

11) Oddly, I had very little emotional response to Abaddon's duel with the clone-Horus, besides wanting to see how it reflected on Abaddon's character.

Sorry for the typos. I'm trying to type on my phone.

8 could be explained by the fact that the crew of Khayon's ship is now aboard. I know the VS is huge, but that may be enough to build up a skeleton crew.

EDIT :

Also, it's petty of me, but I think my opinion of Abaddon increased in ToH as soon as I saw he wasn't wearing that damned fool top knot. (There was a time in GW history when the dude with the biggest thing on his head was obviously the leader. Vide, original Nagash.)

The top knot will come back, dude. Back with a vengeance.

[Phoebus]

2) It was great to see this novel written from a perspective other than Abaddon's. I think the great figures of the 30k/40k setting are more satisfyingly seen from the outside. As viewpoint characters, Primarchs and generals are constrained. If they do planning and leadership, it's dull. If they chop things up in hand to hand, it's rather ridiculous. Why aren't they directing strategy? Plus, there's the problem that a primarchs or genius becomes more mundane, and less impressive, if you see through their eyes. Better to view them in the reflection and awe of other characters.

 

Speaking for myself, I agree... but because I think the primarchs are not, generally speaking, depicted in a convincing manner.  It's a tough job, to be sure.  How do you write a super-genius demigod?  You have to walk a tightrope of showing enough to keep the reader interested but hold back enough to maintain the illusion that this creature is superhuman.  Forget their physical prowess; to do a primarch's mind justice, you'd basically have to convincingly mimic the genius of Alexander, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, and Rommel... and then inject hindsight, to boot.

 

Like, "Duh, of course I convinced High Command to deploy covert forces to sabotage British airfields and ports throughout the Mediterranean.  I knew I'd have to drive to Egypt, and that would require enormous amounts of petrol, all of which would need to be shipped across hostile waters."

 

8) I thought that after we meet Horus, the plot moves a bit too fast, ...

 

As I offered elsewhere, I thought it moved too fast after Abaddon was found.  Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the novel immensely... but the pace struck me as almost frenetic.

 

9) After the Heresy and Legion Wars, how do the Traitors have enough Marines left to wage war anyway? They don't seem keen on recruiting or replacing, but they die in every battle. Even with time dilation, there can't be many Veterans of the Heresy left by M41. I used to think maybe the warp reduplicated CSMs, so that the same traitors emerged from the Eye over and over, but this seems not to be the case.

 

They do recruit, and some short stories from the last couple of years have admirably attempted to point this out.  I'll link the relevant Black Library pages here later on.  At any rate, we know that even the "crazy" legions like the World Eaters continued recruiting all the way until the Horus Heresy... so I don't see why we would assume they'd stop once rebellion was declared.

 

Beyond that, though, I think we need to remember that, for the most part, the Traitor Legions did not exactly return to the Eye of Terror in an almost destroyed state.  The greatest losses we've seen the traitors suffer thus far were due to their own house-cleaning.  I can think of two exceptions to this:

 

1. The Night Lords lost about a third of their legion against the Dark Angels.

2. The Thousand Sons, who were reduced to but a tenth of their power, are the only legion that truly came close to being annihilated.

 

The Emperor's Children seem to have avoided the worst of the fighting at Terra... and nothing leads me to think they would have fared any worse in other situations.  Going back to the Night Lords, my guess is that they avoided major confrontations after Thramas.  The Death Guard have thus far been shown to be bullies with weapons of mass destruction.  The Word Bearers had huge numbers, even if one counts the "sacrificial lambs" of Calth.  Alpha Legion certainly ensured the battlefields were as rigged in their favor as possible.

 

What does that mean?  I doubt that any legion, minus the Thousand Sons, left Terra with less than 40-50-% of their forces - and that's an absolute worst case scenario.  I mean, the Traitors enjoyed an 8-3 legion advantage on Terra.  Even with such awful losses, you're still talking about more than half a million Legionaries.  That's assuming, of course, that any recruiting efforts between Isstvan III and the Siege of Terra were completely offset by combat losses.  I don't know how plausible that would be given that, for the most part, the Traitors were basically winning until that final battle.

 

10) I almost felt ... hopeful at the prospect of a legion victory. 40k's universe has been stuck for so long, that even if a new Chaos Imperium would be terrible for an averge human, it could lead to a rejuvenation of sorts, maybe even some technological/demonic engine progrsss.

 

Yeah, I hear you.  I've said this before, but I've always been fond of the sentiments expressed in Storm of Iron.  The Warsmith's Grand Companies are certainly filled with cruel bastards, but many of them still hold on to a dream of sorts:

 

 

“...despite Forrix’s contempt for Honsou’s flawed heritage, he had to admit that his rival was a competent commander. Furthermore, he still believed in the dream of Horus, and the unification of Humanity under the terrible Powers of Chaos.”

...

“Unlike Honsou, Kroeger had long since cast off any notions of the good of humanity. He fought for greed, for slaughter and the chance to exact a measure of revenge upon those who had bested them so long ago.”

...

“The warriors accompanying him chanted a monotonous dirge – a prayer to the Dark Gods, memorised and unchanged these last ten millennia. Honsou closed his eyes and allowed it to wash over him, his lips moving in time with the words. He clutched his bolter tight, though he knew that it was not yet time to sate its battle hunger with the blood of traitors. The only deaths likely this day were those of worthless prisoners, men who deserved to die anyway for their stubborn refusal to follow the only true path that could save mankind from the multifarious horrors of this universe.

Where else but in Chaos could humanity find the strength to resist the implacable advance of the tyranids, the barbarity of the orks or the nascent peril of the ancient star-gods that were even now awakening from their aeons-long slumbers? Only Chaos had the power to unite a fragmented race and defeat that which sought to destroy it. The soldiers of the corpse-god only speeded the ruination of that which they purported to defend by resisting Chaos.”

 

Excerpt From: Graham McNeill. “Storm of Iron.” iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=8394703D01F0B6377A33E58D7BBED549

Emphasis mine.  That's not to say that this viewpoint is deluded or perversely hypocritical... but nothing precludes the warriors who subscribe to it from genuinely believing in it.

 

The question is, after ten thousand years of the horrors of the Eye of Terror, is even Abaddon capable of ushering in a new age - however dark - of Humanity?  Or will the Cabal be right?  Will he simply bring about the final destruction of the species ten thousand years too late?

[Conn Eremon]

If you mean 40-50% of their numbers just prior to the Siege, I would think that might be true.

 

But if you mean from their pre-Heresy numbers, I would say that is a far too conservative number. The III Legion lost that much in the Isstvan system alone, and they are ones to best survive the whole Heresy. Sure, recruitment definitely continued post-Isstvan, but even still. That is a lot to get back, and only the XII Legion had the kind of infrastructure in place to keep a positive boost in numbers in spite of such regular losses.

[Phoebus]

Cormac, I'm just going off of what we've seen in the first three years of the Heresy.  Which legions have really had such hard fighting in the seven years of the Heresy preceding the Siege of Terra that their losses would outweigh any recruitment efforts?

 

Post Isstvan V, the only ones I can think of are the Iron Warriors - at Tallarn.  And they had a strength estimated to be around 180,000 prior to the Heresy.

 

Mind you, I'm not saying there wasn't hard fighting done by the Traitors; I just don't think it was hard enough to lower their numbers to dangerous levels.  Horus effectively annihilated two loyalist legions, ensured that two more had much of their power wasted (Space Wolves, Blood Angels), and reduced another to a fifth of its power (Ultramarines).

 

So, at best, eight Traitor Legions (three with significant losses) incurred during Isstvan III and V are arrayed against loyalists whose own effective manpower adds up to, say, five full-strength legions.  More importantly, however, for the three-ish years that are left, the Traitors are fighting as a concerted effort while the Loyalists are fighting as separate elements with uncoordinated agendas.  The Fists, for instance, aren't leaving Terra; nor are the Ultramarines leaving Ultramar.  Corax isn't talking to anyone.  The Iron Hands are split under a number of banners.  About the only loyal primarch who has been shown making any effort to link up with his brothers is the Lion, who was looking for Russ and was initially looking to potentially fight Guilliman.

 

The Traitors are, in essence, fighting the Loyalist Space Marines piecemeal, and annihilating any non-Astartes forces that stand up to them.  Unless something really changed between The Damnation of Pythos and the Siege of Terra, I just don't see how their losses will be so massive so as to outweigh their ability to overcome most wounds and their recruitment efforts.  If that was the case, then I just don't see why everyone was treating the Siege as a last stand.  If half a million or less Space Marines arrived with Horus at Terra, then they'd be enjoying barely 2:1 odds against supremely fortified loyalists.

I don't know, man.  That just doesn't sound right to me.

[Blackout2014]

So just got Talon of Horus yesterday and I was reading along and this sentence stopped me dead in my tracks.....

 

 

It is stated in the book that Magnus bows to Adaddon.

When the heck did this happen? I know in the old stories it was reported that Magnus refuses to see Abaddon but that Ahriman supports him with rubric marines.

Is this a re-write or have I missed something along the way?

 

 

Can anyone help me out with this one?

[incinerator950]

Yeah, that's definitely a black library retcon.

[Conn Eremon]

Yeah, that's definitely a black library retcon.

Really? Where is it ever said that Magnus didn't bow to Abaddon? Where is it ever said that the Daemon Primarchs were anything but below Abaddon, and not a subordinated part of his forces whenever he calls, whatever their individual power or former status?

 

Because then it would be a retcon.

 

But instead, it's an elaboration on previously unknown aspects of existing lore, within the bounds of that lore.

[A D-B]

Yeah, that's definitely a black library retcon.

 

Nope!

 

 

 

Yeah, that's definitely a black library retcon.

Really? Where is it ever said that Magnus didn't bow to Abaddon? Where is it ever said that the Daemon Primarchs were anything but below Abaddon, and not a subordinated part of his forces whenever he calls, whatever their individual power or former status?

 

Because then it would be a retcon.

 

But instead, it's an elaboration on previously unknown aspects of existing lore, within the bounds of that lore.

 

 

Yep!

[A D-B]

It's also worth noting that the text doesn't just say Magnus bows to Abaddon, that's that, The End. There's more to it than that (...and why wouldn't there be?) as well as the fairly major fact it's suggested pretty heavily that it's not a willing submission.

 

tl;dr -- No. No retcon. 

[Blackout2014]

It's also worth noting that the text doesn't just say Magnus bows to Abaddon, that's that, The End. There's more to it than that (...and why wouldn't there be?) as well as the fairly major fact it's suggested pretty heavily that it's not a willing submission.

 

tl;dr -- No. No retcon. 

 

It will be interesting to see where future writings go with that. I've always been fascinated by the journey to Magnus from loyalist to Daemon Prince. Finished reading Scars and the characterization of the conversation between the Khan and Magnus is fantastic. 

 

I guess I just can't picture Magnus bending knee to Abaddon. Guess I will have to wait and see how that came about. 

 

Thanks for the response!

[Blackout2014]

 

Yeah, that's definitely a black library retcon.

Really? Where is it ever said that Magnus didn't bow to Abaddon? Where is it ever said that the Daemon Primarchs were anything but below Abaddon, and not a subordinated part of his forces whenever he calls, whatever their individual power or former status?

 

Because then it would be a retcon.

 

But instead, it's an elaboration on previously unknown aspects of existing lore, within the bounds of that lore.

 

 

It has never been spelled out, but I've always taken the Daemon Princes to be involved the the battles above human perception. Thereby not being involved in the Long War because they are so elevated. This always implied to me that they were much more powerful than Abaddon or anyone else who is not a Daemon Prince. Furthermore, it always seemed like the Daemon Princes would help Abaddon, but they were not beholden to him. Perhaps they are and it has never been bought up once until now. It would beg the question why Abaddon wouldn't be able to just order them all to attack at once. That could probably break Cadia.  

 

I always read into it that Abaddon is the most powerful member of Chaos fighting against the present day imperial forces, but still below the Daemon Primarchs in terms of raw power. 

 

In any case, it will be interesting to see where the story goes from here. 

[Lucien Eilam]

It's not all about "raw power" though. As daemons, they're bound by Byzantine rules, contracts and deals, and limited by their ability to manifest in realspace. The Ragged Knight could tear Khayon limb from limb in a straight fight, but he was still able to summon it, bind it, and force it to obey his commands against its will.

 

He may not be 100' tall and made of magic, but Abaddon's strength of will and purity of vision are second to none, and they're as important as anything else when dealing with the daemonic.

[Blackout2014]

It's not all about "raw power" though. As daemons, they're bound by Byzantine rules, contracts and deals, and limited by their ability to manifest in realspace. The Ragged Knight could tear Khayon limb from limb in a straight fight, but he was still able to summon it, bind it, and force it to obey his commands against its will.

 

He may not be 100' tall and made of magic, but Abaddon's strength of will and purity of vision are second to none, and they're as important as anything else when dealing with the daemonic.

 

But if he was 100 feet tall and made of magic that would be awesome!

[Emperors Immortals]

As far as the princes I feel no God would unecesarily risk losing one. As physically stable representatives they are irreplaceable, not to mention probably part of a psychic system that sustains that gods influence and power.

 

Lesser daemons and mortals both are infinite in number and infinatly expendable.

 

By not bending to chaos Abaddons managed to stabilise the potential of chaos and direct its power in accord with his will.

 

A one mann Manhattan project of the malefic.

[Blackout2014]

As far as the princes I feel no God would unecesarily risk losing one. As physically stable representatives they are irreplaceable, not to mention probably part of a psychic system that sustains that gods influence and power.

 

Lesser daemons and mortals both are infinite in number and infinatly expendable.

 

By not bending to chaos Abaddons managed to stabilise the potential of chaos and direct its power in accord with his will.

 

A one mann Manhattan project of the malefic.

 

No doubt of that. No matter your opinion on Abaddon leads the most stable chaotic faction.

 

Sometime it is better to just get stuff done.  

[Loesh]

To be honest, I am neither surprised nor convinced that it has anything to do with Abaddon being better then the Primarchs rather then the place that Abaddon has in the great scheme of the gods and the place each of them are in as the gods instruments, to my mind if they bow to him it is at the behest of their Patron...not through him and him alone.

 

Then again, i'm of the opinion that Lucius has more bearing on the universe then Fulgrim and ditto each of the other mortal champions. So perhaps i'm merely crazy.

[Blackout2014]

To be honest, I am neither surprised nor convinced that it has anything to do with Abaddon being better then the Primarchs rather then the place that Abaddon has in the great scheme of the gods and the place each of them are in as the gods instruments, to my mind if they bow to him it is at the behest of their Patron...not through him and him alone.

 

Then again, i'm of the opinion that Lucius has more bearing on the universe then Fulgrim and ditto each of the other mortal champions. So perhaps i'm merely crazy.

 

It's always hard to tell because the mortal champions do things that are measurable as far as the damage they do. 

 

The primarchs are so above it all it's hard to tell if they accomplish anything or are just hanging out. 

[Loesh]

I generally go with the idea that the Primarchs are mainly tools for the great game and playing it inside the Warp, where the mortal Champions are strictly the long war and mortal affairs.

 

The Primarchs coming into realspace like they are now is supposed to the sign that the gods are laying their hand out in front of the Emperor and pushing all the chips, their presence is supposed to reaffirm things have hit the fan for the Imperium of man.

[Blackout2014]

I generally go with the idea that the Primarchs are mainly tools for the great game and playing it inside the Warp, where the mortal Champions are strictly the long war and mortal affairs.

 

The Primarchs coming into realspace like they are now is supposed to the sign that the gods are laying their hand out in front of the Emperor and pushing all the chips, their presence is supposed to reaffirm things have hit the fan for the Imperium of man.

 

I can buy that.