Just tried Vassal (GK Vs D. Eldar)

[EnterRehab]

We played a 500pt game.

 

Ran Terms w/ Librarian + 1 NDK

 

My NDK took the entire siege of 500pts.. and would've survived if he didn't roll double 1's on the last 2 wounds of the round.  Talk about luck.

 

Had he survived, I think the game would've gone down a little different.

 

Are we advocates for Vassal40k at all?

[Quozzo]

I use vassal regularly, its good to get games in when you have some spare time and no-one to play with against. The games seem to take longer though, don't know why.

[Brom MKIV]

I played on vassal for awhile. Its ok but I found you loose quite a bit in the translation to 2 dimensions since eyeballing ranges and distance between models and such is pretty skewed not to mention flyers/FMCs LoS terrain etc. Too much doesn't cross over sufficiently. I also became quite suspicious of the dice on that program. Its fine if that's the only way you can get a game in but I'd probably rate testing against yourself above vassal for practice purposes. Its fine for demonstrations though or to recreate batreps. IDK maybe I didnt delve deep enough though so ymmv.

[EnterRehab]

I like it because I travel a lot and helps me get used to my army

[Quozzo]

I played on vassal for awhile. Its ok but I found you loose quite a bit in the translation to 2 dimensions since eyeballing ranges and distance between models and such is pretty skewed not to mention flyers/FMCs LoS terrain etc. Too much doesn't cross over sufficiently. I also became quite suspicious of the dice on that program. Its fine if that's the only way you can get a game in but I'd probably rate testing against yourself above vassal for practice purposes. Its fine for demonstrations though or to recreate batreps. IDK maybe I didnt delve deep enough though so ymmv.

I do find it funny this community shuns the use of digital dice when it's far more accurate than rolling palpable dice. If in doubt, set the number of dice ridiculously high and select Show Total on here. I got 349588 which is actually incredibly close to the average. That was with 100,000 dice but you browser may hang for a minute or two depending on your PC/phone specs.

 

 

Yes the line of sight may suck being only a birds eye view but its a good compromise when you can play others across continents without having to go there yourself, and drag half your models only to find some were broken. On the flip side templates are really accurate for the same reasons.

 

edit: OMG, third attempt: 350000!

[EnterRehab]

Computers have to jump through hoops to create random numbers. Conventionally, most languages generate pseudo-random numbers and can become guessable in large quantity.

 

Fortunately, there are ways around this and it's likely to be true random. However, people throw true random, with exception to the dice not being even.

 

Food for thought, GW dice are more likely to roll poorly due to the rounded edges.

[Quozzo]

There is no such thing as "random". Newtons law is constantly in effect. When things happen at "random" it is because the causes were unknown. The die's algorithms are very complex. You could't guess them unless you knew the algorithms, the precise time (I'm talking 15 decimal places of a second) and all previous rolls from it. There are other factors but needless to say it is random in any sense of the word. As you point out, dice are flawed.

 

Even people don't throw true random. There are obvious restrictions of variables from past experiences which effect every single throw. I have yet to see someone shake their hand for over an hour because statistically, only doing it for a few seconds is by far skewing the probability of the time it takes to throw dice. If you ask someone for a random number, they aren't going to sit down and say the number of digits for 10.5 billion years although numbers are infinite so could well be much much longer, as there are obvious restraints on humans able to do so, instead they will probably give you a number between 10 or maybe 100, based on past experiences. No-one has yet given me a fraction or minus number.

[EnterRehab]

There is no such thing as "random". Newtons law is constantly in effect. When things happen at "random" it is because the causes were unknown. The die's algorithms are very complex. You could't guess them unless you knew the algorithms, the precise time (I'm talking 15 decimal places of a second) and all previous rolls from it. There are other factors but needless to say it is random in any sense of the word. As you point out, dice are flawed.

 

Even people don't throw true random. There are obvious restrictions of variables from past experiences which effect every single throw. I have yet to see someone shake their hand for over an hour because statistically, only doing it for a few seconds is by far skewing the probability of the time it takes to throw dice. If you ask someone for a random number, they aren't going to sit down and say the number of digits for 10.5 billion years although numbers are infinite so could well be much much longer, as there are obvious restraints on humans able to do so, instead they will probably give you a number between 10 or maybe 100, based on past experiences. No-one has yet given me a fraction or minus number.

 

I was just referring to the fact that computers mostly generate pseudo-random numbers.. which is when the system uses a key or starting value.  If you were to see the starting value/key, you could identify the random number that it will create without ever seeing the actual number its going to create.  Think of it like seeing into the future.  You're inferring predictions (where you can state with probability that someone will give you a number between 10 and 100), where I'm stating the guarantee of identifying the values.

 

This is why random number generation needed a huge overhaul in cryptographic systems and why most of them have been nixed.

[Quozzo]

I was saying that if you knew someone's experiences and past, you would know exactly what number they were going to say. It is not random at all. It is even limited by the lifespan of a human. Contrary to popular belief, we are not random and if fact quite predictable providing the necessary information is known, which is what you're saying about random number generators.

[EnterRehab]

Then we are in agreement!

[IndigoJack]

There is no such thing as "random". Newtons law is constantly in effect

True random does exist, just not in classical mechanics. Quantum mechanics has a few ways to create true random numbers.

 

As far as vassal goes, there is a known bug where one player who's rolls will average higher than another's.