Blast Templates and shooting into combat

[Captain Coolpants]

Probably a dumb question. But I can't find the answer.

 

As far as I am aware, you CANNOT shoot into combat.

 

And I know that scattering templates CAN hit models in combat.

 

 

BUT.

 

What happens if you aim a large template weapon at a model that's right next to combat? Because you're not shooting into combat, you're shooting at the enemy NEXT to the combat and just happen to be hitting a squad in combat.

[Kristoff]

Probably a dumb question. But I can't find the answer.

 

As far as I am aware, you CANNOT shoot into combat.

 

And I know that scattering templates CAN hit models in combat.

 

 

BUT.

 

What happens if you aim a large template weapon at a model that's right next to combat? Because you're not shooting into combat, you're shooting at the enemy NEXT to the combat and just happen to be hitting a squad in combat.

You are not held accountable for scatter. However, one cannot place a template in such a way as it covers a unit locked in combat (see Locked in Combat in the Assault Phase). It confirms that scattering CAN, though. So long as no model is considered Locked in Combat or Friendly, you can initially place the template on top of it. Being near to a combat does not count.

[Teaz]

Just a follow-up question; I'm not arguing the answer :)

 

So the rules as written grants complete protection from blast markers, if you place your model next to a unit in close combat?

 

Example, friendly tarpit unit charges an enemy elite unit, and locks that unit in close-combat - Vindicare Assasin, for example (name any other soft but hard hitting unit), eases 1 inch within the the friendly and/or enemy unit. The enemy only has blast weapons remaining, therefore leaving the Vindicare Assassin free to decimate the enemy without fear of return fire?

[Cactus]

That would seem to work. Sneaky.

[Dam13n]

In theory you could use placement close to a combat to provide a single model with protection from blasts, however it's actually unlikely to work against all blasts all of the time.

 
The single model in question must be at least 1" from any of the enemy models in the combat.  The model's base is (currently) 25mm (~1") across.  The hole of the Blast Marker must be over the base of the target model.  A 3" Blast Marker has a radius of 1.5".  With the 1" from the combat and the base of the model taken into account, the blast should still be placeable.

 

Diagram:
 
http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r358/MatthewDaunt/Blast_zps58646e10.jpg

 

Large (5") Blast Markers wouldn't be placeable if the target model is 1" from the combat as the 2.5" radius is greater than that 1" + the diameter of the base.

 

Now if you could engineer it that the model was within 1" of the combat but more than 1" from an enemy model, then it could be used against small blasts too, but this is so situational as to be almost entirely useless as a reliable tactic.  Not forgetting that you'd move up to the combat in your turn, there is then a round of combat (which will / may result in casualties and pile-in moves) to draw your "protection" away from the model in question before your opponent's turn (shooting phase).

 
It's an interesting idea, but highly situational and, even then, there's no guarantee of safety.  As, well, how many armies have nothing but blast weapons available to them?

[Kristoff]

Just a follow-up question; I'm not arguing the answer

So the rules as written grants complete protection from blast markers, if you place your model next to a unit in close combat?

Example, friendly tarpit unit charges an enemy elite unit, and locks that unit in close-combat - Vindicare Assasin, for example (name any other soft but hard hitting unit), eases 1 inch within the the friendly and/or enemy unit. The enemy only has blast weapons remaining, therefore leaving the Vindicare Assassin free to decimate the enemy without fear of return fire?

For a small, non-IC, single-model unit like the Assassins, yes, it's possible. Because the center of the Blast template must initially be somewhere over the hull or base of the target, it can be a challenge placing it in such a way as to avoid non-combtants or Friendlies. However, it would be a challenge arranging that.

For ICs, it gets a little muddy because of how joining a unit works.

For anything larger than a 25mm base, it starts becoming a lot easier to avoid the issue. It may even be possible with the new 32mm Marine bases, but a 40mm Terminator base would start getting easy to place.

Getting an opposing army to be down to just Blasts outside of combat, usually only happens in really small games or Kill Team.

So, possible, but a pain in the arse to set up.

[Teaz]

I agree it's tricky, but as you can guess it happened to me against Tyranids, where large blobs of termagaunts in close combat (2 units), made his floating synapse thingies (I forget the name) impervious to blasts by parking them in the butt of his termagaunts; meaning I had to divert other forces that was needed elsewhere to try and deal with them.

 

However, he did claim that blast markers were to be centered on the base, so that might as well have made the difference.

 

 

None-the-less, it's going in the playbook for thoose rare occassions where it could be useful, but think I would mainly try to shadow an MC if possible, to give the best odds of pile-in moves not getting him to far away :)

[Jacinda]

Don't forget, if an IC moves to within 2" of a unit, it has joined that unit.

[Kristoff]

Don't forget, if an IC moves to within 2" of a unit, it has joined that unit.

An IC can't join a unit that is engaged in combat. So, has to stay 2" away from the engaged unit or attempt to engage as a separate unit.

[Leonaides]

and he got the centre-of-base call wrong... I thought Zoanthropes were on a 40mm base as well?