L30n1d4s Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I like Ragnar's background and battlefield role (kind of the "Wolf Lord level" Blood Claw i.e. pure woodchipper in close combat) and I think his rules are decent in the new codex, but looking at the options for Wolf Lords, I think you might be able to make an even better "counts as" Ragnar: -Wolf Lord -Runic Armor -Helm of Durfast -Fangsword of the Ice Wolf -Wulfen Stone -Melta Bomb So, all of this costs 20 points more than Ragnar, but has the following advantages: -2+/4++ save, versus 3+/4++ -Re-rolls ALL to Hits (not just challenges) from Helm of Durfast -Also ignores cover and re-rolls all To Hits with shooting... not that useful on a bolt pistol, but if he ever mans an Icarus Lascannon or Quadgun or even an Aquila Strong Point Macro Cannon, that is an amazing bonus -Is not required to accept challenges -Since he already re-rolls all To Hits, can roll for a different Warlord Trait, like Saga of the Bear for FNP(6+), or Saga of the Hunter, for Outflank This model also has the exact same statline as Ragnar, has Fangsword instead of Frostfang (trading Master Crafted for Hellfrost, otherwise the same), has Rage, gives his unit and himself Furious Charge, and has a Melta Bomb for anti-vehicle work. On the downside, besides costing +20 points over Ragnar, the Wolf Lord "counts as" does not have his Incredible Reflexes rule, so it cannot re-roll a saving throw in the assault phase. Taking all this into account, I think the customized Wolf Lord "counts as" Ragnar comes out on top, primarily due to his permanently better armor save (great in challenges, in normal close combat, and even against shooting attacks) and ability to re-roll ALL to Hits.... on the charge, the "counts as" Ragnar would typically have 7 S6 AP3 attacks, with about 6 hits and 5 wounds/5 unsaved wounds against MEQs.... Ragnar also gets 7 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge, but only about 4-5 hits and 3-4 unsaved wounds against MEQs... between superior damage output and superior armor save, I think the "count as" Ragnar is more competitive on the whole and I think I may try fielding him like this in future games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Well, something you can not replace is Ragnar's global ability of giving every SW unit FC, not just his own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I am looking at the Codex right now and his War Howl rules states "all models with the Space Wolves Faction IN HIS UNIT have the Furious Charge special rule" so I am afraid he does not give FC to all Space Wolves, only his own squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 My mistake. I must've skipped that. Then go ahead man. Sounds like a killer ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I like Ragnar's background and battlefield role (kind of the "Wolf Lord level" Blood Claw i.e. pure woodchipper in close combat) and I think his rules are decent in the new codex, but looking at the options for Wolf Lords, I think you might be able to make an even better "counts as" Ragnar: -Wolf Lord -Runic Armor -Helm of Durfast -Fangsword of the Ice Wolf -Wulfen Stone -Melta Bomb I Personally would go with -Wolf Lord Armor of Russ Black Death Helm of Durnfast Maybe A TWM + TWC Unit Why Black Death and Armor of Russ? 20pts cheaper and if ur outnumbered perma 3+ Attack +2/ap2 forcing Challenger to be I1 vs I1. Just get a small and good unit for him like WG/WGT and ones he rolls he rolls hard. BTW always force A Charge Challange and let the attack spills give the rest hell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain fabian Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Yeah but last time i checked Ragnar was walking Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I like Ragnar's background and battlefield role (kind of the "Wolf Lord level" Blood Claw i.e. pure woodchipper in close combat) and I think his rules are decent in the new codex, but looking at the options for Wolf Lords, I think you might be able to make an even better "counts as" Ragnar: -Wolf Lord -Runic Armor -Helm of Durfast -Fangsword of the Ice Wolf -Wulfen Stone -Melta Bomb I Personally would go with-Wolf Lord Armor of Russ Black Death Helm of Durnfast Maybe A TWM + TWC Unit Why Black Death and Armor of Russ? 20pts cheaper and if ur outnumbered perma 3+ Attack +2/ap2 forcing Challenger to be I1 vs I1. Just get a small and good unit for him like WG/WGT and ones he rolls he rolls hard. BTW always force A Charge Challange and let the attack spills give the rest hell. Sounds more like an improved Krom Dragongaze thinking of masquerading as Herald Deathwolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Yeah srry missed the point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Another option for making a "counts as" Ragnar, using the Champions of Fenris book, is as follows: -Wolf Lord -Runic Armor -Melta Bomb -Krakenbone Sword -Fellclaws Teeth So, this rings in at 15 points less than Ragnar's base points cost and has the following advantages: 1 - 2+ save, vice his normal 3+ save 2 - Re-rolls all To Hits in combat (from Fellclaws Teeth), not just in challenges 3 - Sword is +1S and AP2, vice +1S AP3/Rending As before, all the base stats are the same and he has the same Belt of Russ (4++), MB, and Bolt Pistol as Ragnar. Now, in terms of disadvantages, this "count as" Ragnar has no Rage (so -1A on the charge), does not give himself of his unit Furious Charge (one of Ragnar's signature traits and a big loss), and also doesn't have the Incredible Reflexes rule for a re-rolled armor/invul save in combat. Those are some pretty big disadvantages, especially in terms of the "counts as" Ragnar ability to buff his squad, but he is also cheaper and generally much better individually in combat (2+ armor save + AP2 weapon striking at I5 + re-rolls for all To hits = quite a respectable combat character). Some of this can be mitigated, for example 1) having "counts as" Ragnar and his unit fight nearby a Grey Hunter Pack with a Wolf Banner (gives "counts a"s Ragnar and his squad +1A at all times, not just on the charge) or 2) attaching an allied Minisotrium Priest to give re-rolled armor/invul saves via the War Hymns ability, but even these mitigating techniques require you to shell out more points and coordinate disparate force in order to get "counts as " Ragnar up to full speed. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Yeah srry missed the point Not a problem, you did fix another Wolf Lord we have issues with. Saves us a thread on Krom As to the improved Ragnar, I don't have a preference. Both builds look good to me. Guess it would depend which book I'm using, if not a detachment from each. If using both books then pick the one that fits for points. Ap2 or, for 35 more, ap3 and furious charge for his squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Take a lord out of CotGW book. You get the must accept challenges and preferred enemy rule for characters when in a challenge. You can also give him the AP2 Krakenbone sword and the Fellclaws Teeth that lets you re-roll hits in close combat. That lord is kicking ass in combat. He isn't making his unit go berserk, but he is definitely very handy in combat and can 'counts as' Ragnar. *Edit: why didn't I see the post a couple above this one lol* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296919-building-a-deadlier-ragnar-blackmane/#findComment-3812825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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