What am I doing wrong?

[EnterRehab]

So, I'm not sure what the problem is.  Maybe its my play-style and maybe it's my opponent..
 
I consistently play against my brother in law, and no matter what, I seem to get decimated.
 
My army lists are as follows:
 
500pt:

HQ (110pts)

• Librarian (110pts)

Troops (185pts)

• Terminator Squad (185pts) (Codex: Grey Knights p67)
  • Terminator (psycannon)
    Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Psycannon
  • 3x Terminator (sword)
    3x Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), 3x Storm bolter
  • Terminator Justicar
    Nemesis force sword (Daemonbane), Storm bolter

Heavy Support (205pts)

• Nemesis Dreadknight (205pts) (Codex: Grey Knights p77)
  Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter
  • Warlord

 

1k pt:

HQ (135pts)

• Librarian (135pts)
  Domina Liber Daemonica

Troops (205pts)

• Terminator Squad (205pts)
  • 2x Terminator (falchions)
    4x Nemesis falchion
  • Terminator (halberd)
    Nemesis force halberd
  • Terminator (psycannon)
    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon
  • Terminator Justicar
    Nemesis Daemon hammer

Fast Attack (230pts)

• Stormraven Gunship (230pts) (Codex: Grey Knights p74)
  Ceramite Plating, Hurricane bolters, 4x Stormstrike missile, Twin-linked heavy bolter, Twin-linked lascannon

Heavy Support (430pts)

• Nemesis Dreadknight (225pts) (Codex: Grey Knights p77)
  Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter

 

Alternative 1k list:

HQ (135pts)

• Librarian (135pts)
  Domina Liber Daemonica

Troops (660pts)

• Terminator Squad (465pts)
  • Land Raider Crusader (270pts)
    Extra armour, Frag assault launchers, Hunter-killer missile, 2x Hurricane bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter
  • Terminator (psycannon)
    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon
  • 3x Terminator (sword)
    3x Nemesis force sword
  • Terminator Justicar
    Nemesis Daemon hammer
• Terminator Squad (195pts)
  • Terminator (psycannon)
    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon
  • 3x Terminator (sword)
    3x Nemesis force sword
  • Terminator Justicar
    Nemesis Daemon hammer

Heavy Support (205pts)

• Nemesis Dreadknight (205pts)
  Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter

 

 

 

*EDIT* Made a 2k list for fighting Deldar.

 

HQ (110pts)

• Librarian (110pts)

Elites (490pts)

• Dreadnought (145pts)

  Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon

• Dreadnought (145pts)

  Twin-linked autocannon, Twin-linked autocannon

• Purifier Squad (200pts)
  • Knight of the Flame

    Nemesis force sword

  • 4x Purifier (sword)

    4x Nemesis force sword

  • Twin-linked lascannon

Troops (740pts)

• Terminator Squad (370pts)
  • Terminator (psycannon)

    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon

  • Terminator (psycannon)

    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon

  • 7x Terminator (sword)

    7x Nemesis force sword

  • Terminator Justicar

    Nemesis force sword

• Terminator Squad (370pts)
  • Terminator (psycannon)

    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon

  • Terminator (psycannon)

    Nemesis force sword, Psycannon

  • 7x Terminator (sword)

    7x Nemesis force sword

  • Terminator Justicar

    Nemesis force sword

Fast Attack (265pts)

• Interceptor Squad (265pts)
  • 2x Interceptor (incinerator)

    2x Incinerator

  • 7x Interceptor (sword)

    7x Nemesis force sword

  • Interceptor Justicar

    Melta bombs, Nemesis force sword

Heavy Support (395pts)

• Nemesis Dreadknight (180pts)

  2x Power fist, Heavy Incinerator, Personal teleporter

• Nemesis Dreadknight (215pts)

  2x Power fist, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Personal teleporter

 

 

 

 

 
Limiting it to just those three lists..
 
When I deploy, Its sketchy for me to deploy GKT only, because they could get gunned down pretty fast by lances and similar..
 
I generally roll a librarian with the GKT as well, as he can provide tons of benefit to the squad.
 
I keep NDKs in reserve for DS, but this might be completely unnecessary.  I find that no matter what I do, it kills me that if I shunt or DS, he cant assault.  Every game I've played, he(they) get lanced down before they can get in there for real damage.
 
Maybe I'm building them wrong, but I've been running psycannon/incinerator (i was using Gatling psilencer, but have been going back and forth).
 
Basically, what advice can you guys lend me so that I am better prepared for my next match?
 
*Note, my opponent generally plays D. Eldar*

[Reclusiarch Darius]

40k doesn't work properly at 1k. Ask your opponents to move up to 1.5k at the very least. 

[EnterRehab]

40k doesn't work properly at 1k. Ask your opponents to move up to 1.5k at the very least. 

 

I've got 1500, 1750, 1850, and 2k army lists, just didn't want to blast them on the board.  I can post if you want?

[IndigoJack]

two things:

 

1) Can you condense your army list? You're listing a lot of unnecessary stuff. Try just listing units and their upgrades (just thinks you bought, not things the unit comes with).

 

2) What army/armies does your brother-in-law play? It might help to focus your list.

[EnterRehab]

two things:

 

1) Can you condense your army list? You're listing a lot of unnecessary stuff. Try just listing units and their upgrades (just thinks you bought, not things the unit comes with).

 

2) What army/armies does your brother-in-law play? It might help to focus your list.

 

codensed and updated main post.

[Dread]

Well ER, my first thought is at 1k you're gonna get run over with the list. I play both armies and with the DE having 4+ poison on everything can be pretty devastating. Bringing in strikes and purgation squads might be better in low points games. Believe me I love my GKtermies just as much but...I can't give to much since I haven't actually used the new dex yet, I have to re-think my whole way of playing now, but with GK we will always be at a disadvantage body wise because points are higher for us. Hope this helps.

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't reserve the NDK, especially as you have PTs.

 

Ally in Coteaz.  He ruins the Deldar.

 

Apart from that, just shoot them.  Thier planes are paper thin, and we can Force Talos. 

 

With next to zero Psychic Defense, rely on your Powers more than usual.

 

Our groups Deldar player dropped them with great sadness the moment 6th hit and neutered WWP.  He used those to cross the board and when they died, so did his army.

[jeffersonian000]

It was easier to curb stomp Deldar with Mordrak and friends pre-7th, just set down next to a dangerous Deldar unit on turn 1 without scatter, bounce the Interceptors and NDKs forward, warp rift it, Bolter what's left, drop templates on the other open-tops, set up fire bases on objectives, and hold on until turn 2 reinforcements arrive.

 

Now, our Deep Strikes are random, still scatters, and we no longer have Mordrak as a delivery vehicle for a Warp Rifting Libby. What we do have is the ability for more units to arrive on turn 1, more units in our list, and a better reason to go heavy on Shunt units. Versus Deldar, Incinerators are your friend for turning all those open-top transports into BBQ, so go heavy on NDKs armed with Heavy Incinerators and Heavy Psycannons, Interceptors with Incinerators, and DS reserve your GKT for clean-up of units you can't reach with your Shunt dudes. Just go all in, and disrupt as many units as possible rather than focusing down one unit at a time. This is important, because Deldar on foot struggle versus GK. Break them up so they can't focus your NDKs, while your guys will soften them with fire on turn 1, making turn 2 assaults less attractive. After that, shoot the choppies, and chop the shooties. Incinerators will literally fry the passengers, while the Psycannons strip Hull Points. Whatever is left will fall to your bolters, leaving just scraps to mop up in CC.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

It would seem that the Deldar are the next release, so this might all change.

 

They need something, I just simply don't worry about facing Deldar.

 

They might get the same treatment as us though...

[THE PORTCULLIS]

As above, try to go to 1500pts, then you open up some much more viable lists. I used to lose loads, I admit Grey Knights or Daemonhunters as they were was a poor codex that you needed to really put the effort in with to win.

 

Now days, in 7th, its a lot more competitive for us if you get your list right.

 

From what I can see, your list is ok. There's a lot of tooling up on your terminators going on and I'm not too sure about the thinking of a few choices... Let me explain.

 

For a generalist list lets consider your choices.

 

Terminator squad- Whatever happens you need to take as many psycannons as possible, the terminator due to relentless is the best fire platform for this weapon. The psilencer is very good but only in very specific circumstances, otherwise its not worth bringing at all. You won't need it. The incinerator is brilliant, you will need them in your list but the best platform for that is the NDK.

 

Next consider the CC weapons for your terminators. Always bear in mind that your terminators will rip apart almost all other choices in close combat. The upperhand is sometimes had by some codexs however because some units have a higher initiative, this is TRUE of Dark Eldar. As we no longer have anyway of boosting our initiative all the CC weapon choices are unable to give us what we really need. There is an art to a good close combat too as often the best possible scenario is to win a combat on your opponents turn thus denying them a shooting opportunity. As such, contrary to logic, we don't actually want to kill stuff too quick.

 

Falchions - 4pts for an extra attack. Many will argue here but I say that although this represents good value those 4pts can be saved up to use elsewhere in a list, especially when playing a points scarce 1500 list. Also as mentioned, the falchions will see you mow down units at speed ending assaults, more often than not, on your turn giving your opponent time to shoot at them.

 

Stave -5pts for a better deny the witch role. Take one, if you can afford such a luxury. With hammerhand you will be on str 8! But only take 1 as ap4 is a huge draw back.

 

Hammer -10pts for huge strength and ap2 at a loss to initiative. When you become a very advanced player you will know how many of these to involve due to local play styles and local unit choices but very generally use the ratio of 1 hammer per 5 terminators. The inclusion of a hammer when taken should nearly always be on the terminator sergeant. The reason for this is for challenges. Although you risk being killed first by higher initiative weapons (which are rare at ap2, unless its a monsterous creature) you will nearly always kill the opponent once the gavel comes down.

 

So really it comes down to sword or halbert as to what your majority equip should be. All I'll say is that when you have hammerhand in full force the difference between str 6 and 7 isn't remarkable. Therefore for a generalist list rough out the 5 man terminator squad as being with a hammer on the sgt, 4 swords and one psycannon, simply double this for a 10 man squad. Then, when reviewing your list, if you have any spare points you can lavish those on the squad later to take you upto 1500 as described above.

 

I've got to go shopping now, will discuss other parts of your list later...

[Brom MKIV]

Unfortunately GKs really suffer below 1500 while dark eldar thrive at lower levels. To put it into perspective Ive fielded 7 night shielded skimmers at that level before without even using wracks. 

 

The best advice I can give you is to increase the game size to 1500+ to get you some breathing room and/or take some allies. I suggest both. An inquisitor + 3 x 3 acolytes in psybacks will buy you quite a bit of ground in this matchup. 

 

 

 

If you do continue to play at 1k and want to stay 'pure' realize that a well played DE army is nearly unbeatable for you at this level barring his bad luck + mistakes. To even have a chance you will need every single resource at once and you need to spread out your threats, aka MSU. You also won't be winning any missions with multiple objectives unless you table him. With this in mind heres some ideas:

 

-avoid flyers, land raiders, terminators. Avoid reserves unless you can guarantee their turn 1 arrival and/or have no other choice (5 gkss for example).

 

-pick a spot and focus your entire army on eliminating it. Preferably his anti tank.. see below

 

-Mech up. Its true DE are good at killing high value high av targets but light mech spam is much harder to deal with if you can take out the ravagers early. Nothing else in the army can saturate lances efficiently like those can and splinter weaponry doesn't have a strength value.

 

-Think small and outside the box. Everything in the GK dex is severe overkill here. Its a sledge for a gnat. I'm talking bare libby at 110, empty tllc razorbacks, 1 unit of gkss 'tax', adl + quadgun etc. (the quadgun dies too easy to splinters but you get the idea). This is also one instance where rifleman dreads are worth considering. Ya DKs do it better yada yada.. but they don't have the range and cost 50 pts more min. Ideally you want 2 DKs in his face from turn 1 but the right list might get away with 1 DK and a pair of rifle dreads. Hard to say outside of the context of an actual list. 

 

Anyway thats what I got for now.

[EnterRehab]

These posts are crazy useful. I appreciate the time and effort you guys have put into them and have given a great deal of insight. I'll draft up some lists and let you guys know how it goes!

[Rurik the blessed]

Maybe Purifiers are your answer...

They are very good at CC, and with this Nova power... would be horrible against Deldar...

is difficult at 1000 pts.

Take NDKs as cheap as possible, teleport, and a psycannon, nothing else.(if you have the points for incinerator, take it at last)

Don't take units of 5... try to max them to 10.

[Purifying Tempest]

If you take a NDK against DE keep 2 things in mind:

 

1) if you go second consider keeping it off the table entirely or hide it where your opponent cannot rush it and poison it to death.

 

2) heavy incinerators are hilarious. Makes DE tears a lot more enjoyable.

[EnterRehab]

added a new build to try vs. Deldar.

[Brom MKIV]

You're 2k looks pretty good vs DE. I would suggest the PT upgrade on both knights especially since he will probably have night shields at that level. You could find pts by dropping the purifiers pycans and then some odds and ends. You could drop venerable  for the rest although they might save you from those lucky 6s on the damage chart. I also agree a torrent flamer would be nice although the impact of templates on DE is often over rated IME.

[EnterRehab]

You're 2k looks pretty good vs DE. I would suggest the PT upgrade on both knights especially since he will probably have night shields at that level. You could find pts by dropping the purifiers pycans and then some odds and ends. You could drop venerable  for the rest although they might save you from those lucky 6s on the damage chart. I also agree a torrent flamer would be nice although the impact of templates on DE is often over rated IME.

I made some of the  changes you suggested and came up with some of my own!

[Hidicul]

What's with the twin-linked las cannon with the purifiers?

[EnterRehab]

What's with the twin-linked las cannon with the purifiers?

Accidentally removed the razorback from the printed list. Whoops..

 

Will fix tonight