TWC, really that great?

[knife&fork]

I had my thunder wolves kill 120 orks in one game

 

Ive seen them survive untold fire storms using look our sir and collected the eldar and tau tears in the process

 

And I once killed Bjorn the fellhanded with a drop pod :) He tanked 4 melta guns and 2 lascannons with only a single glance, the he was finished off by a double tap in the rear. 

 

Doesn't mean I can expect storm bolters to regularly take out tanks.

[Frater Cornelius]

I had my thunder wolves kill 120 orks in one game

Ive seen them survive untold fire storms using look our sir and collected the eldar and tau tears in the process

And I once killed Bjorn the fellhanded with a drop pod He tanked 4 melta guns and 2 lascannons with only a single glance, the he was finished off by a double tap in the rear.

Doesn't mean I can expect storm bolters to regularly take out tanks.

You can expect to kill 120 orks with TWC however.

[CatSmasher]

They are solid in so many applications. Of course you can find a bad match-up for them. They are great and hunting HVTs and vehicles, they can also bash through mobs with high Initiative. 

[knife&fork]

 

You can expect to kill 120 orks with TWC however.

 

 

Oh yeah, if they get to just eat one squad at the time they can chew through 4 full sized mobs in a game, no problem. What's unlikely is that you'll get an opponent who let you get away with it.  

[Rift Blade]

That's the problem all right. Hence why I run mine in 4+ packs. Mine are regularly in CC with 2-3 squads of enemy squads which is what I want. Lets the rest of my army get on with winning the game.

[knife&fork]

  Of course you can find a bad match-up for them.  

 

It's not really a r-s-p thing, it's that TWC are the odd man out in a marine army. 

 

They are somewhat expensive units, usually filling an important role. Multiple wounds and T5 yes, but 'only' a 3+ save. So when you take that mid strength shooting I was talking about earlier they provide very good ROI as targets. 

 

Consider a serpent shield, tesla destructor, autocannon or similar from the perspective of your opponent. Marines don't need cover from these and they all get saves. So looking at down at the table, would he rather shoot and wound those grey hunters / long fangs on a 2+ or will he try to wound the TWC on the same roll? 

 

Rhinos can make tempting targets for the same guns (and flyers late game) but other than that the TWC is likely the best thing to target. 

[Spacefrisian]

I had my thunder wolves kill 120 orks in one game

Ive seen them survive untold fire storms using look our sir and collected the eldar and tau tears in the process

And I once killed Bjorn the fellhanded with a drop pod He tanked 4 melta guns and 2 lascannons with only a single glance, the he was finished off by a double tap in the rear.

Doesn't mean I can expect storm bolters to regularly take out tanks.

I saw my own Dreadnought drop into Ork lines (in not even behind in) and just walk around and slaughtering 500+ points in 3 rounds. It was prett hilarious. Was an apoc battle and i thought i help my IG ally a bit who had also alot of Orks in front of him.

Iam a nice Wolflord yes?

[Ullr Direfang]

I think this really comes down to a lot of things, and there are a lot of things that can happen. Just because the do something really awesome one game, doesn't mean they will do it again. Also if something happens that is GAWD awful, doesn't mean it will happen again either. I made 21, 5+ invul saves on 5 Termies before, doesn't mean that I have that luck every day.

 

Yea TWC might do well regularly, but people will learn ways to stop them over time, and they wont always shine the same. The same thing goes for every unit in the game really.

[eyeslikethunder]

 

 

Of course you can find a bad match-up for them.

 

Consider a serpent shield, tesla destructor, autocannon or similar from the perspective of your opponent. Marines don't need cover from these and they all get saves. So looking at down at the table, would he rather shoot and wound those grey hunters / long fangs on a 2+ or will he try to wound the TWC on the same roll?

 

Rhinos can make tempting targets for the same guns (and flyers late game) but other than that the TWC is likely the best thing to target.

that's the point of twl/ip they change those 3+ save to 2+ wound allocation gamesand you have fen wolves as well to take instant death attacks / shield the unit . Against mobile armies you offer them the place they don't want to go if want you to take the 3+

[Vlk]

It's all about target saturation. In my first round, I throw a Venerable Dreadnought with the Axe/Shield combo and usually two full units of Grey Hunters with special weapons and possible a Wolf Standard. Behind them, there is a pack of 5 Thunderwolves with a Lord and a large pack of Wolf Guard Bikers. 

 

I'm pretty much happy whichever unit my opponent targets. More often than not, it even forces him to dillute the firepower and try to take out multiple of my units which is actually quite difficult.

[SamaNagol]

I just feel there is too much weight for fire to 2W t5 3+ models to be worth it. Especially when people are terrified of them. It's not like Death Company that you run cheap and dont mind dying. You need to invest points into that TWC unit.

 

Their utility increases dramatically if you add in an Iron Priest with 4 cyberwolves as ablative LoS wounds for him maintaining his 2+ save and also the Pack Leader. Of course taking the TWC out of the CoF supplement is a given right?

[Blackwinter]

this is a game psycology.

 

when you put SS to all your TWC and tell the stats and weapons,  people scream about it. and start to make mistakes. Some of them try to annihilate them and bursts all of his shooting on them. and rest of your army does well. the second is worse some opponents said :

 

"if i shoot they have T5 W2 and a  SS. That will do nothing. it's  better to shoot something that i can kill". Believe me it happens :). 

 

in this case TCW makes them puppy meal.

 

once you break the psycology everything goes well with them.

[The Rose Princes]

this is a game psycology.

when you put SS to all your TWC and tell the stats and weapons, people scream about it. and start to make mistakes. Some of them try to annihilate them and bursts all of his shooting on them. and rest of your army does well. the second is worse some opponents said :

"if i shoot they have T5 W2 and a SS. That will do nothing. it's better to shoot something that i can kill". Believe me it happens .

in this case TCW makes them puppy meal.

once you break the psycology everything goes well with them.

psychology is a big part of the game, especially in the tourney scene with people who don't know me as well; my crew of friends who i've been playing for 15 years know my BS and can see my feints and tactics in my head as i think them... and i them.

the first time i plopped down all Cavalry/Beast army took them a good amount of time to get used to it as it was so different and EVERYTHING seemed to be the biggest threat; i think that's the appeal for me.

[Frater Cornelius]

I love exploiting player psychology. Another reason I love TWC. Everyone knows them and most fear them. I mean it is literally the first thing most people think when they hear 'Space Wolves'.

[Commander_Moustache]

Just want to add something to this post, what do you think is the best power weapon for thunder wolves?

[Frater Cornelius]

Fist is my first spot to deal with Walkers and Raiders. Claw my second to deal with MC and elite infantry. Other that, none.

[Rift Blade]

I prefer just to run power swords. The rending usually happens enough with 4-5 TW's per pack that's all I need. If I have the pts, I'll go to a Th.H. but that's just cause it's what I have modeled & magnetized. I really need to add some options to my TW's.

[skeletoro]

Personally i'd go for claws and hammers (hammers over fists because of the appearance), and maybe mauls if they had furious charge. But it'd just be a sprinkling... especially if I already have ICs in the unit.

 

On a bit of a tangent here but I am planning on fielding at least two units of TWC in an upcoming apocalypse game. How would you equip them in apoc? I'm thinking I may give them all storm shields and perhaps favour fists (well, hammers for aesthetic reasons) over other special weapons. But I have never played apoc before.

 

The other thing I'm wondering about is whether the wolf pack flanking force is the way to go rather than just fielding a company of the great wolf detachment. Rage, hit and run, outflank and the ability to charge when arriving from reserves does seem pretty awesome, even vs. PE while challenging and WS5. Unfortunately it would mean buying a few more models (including a huge number of fenrisian wolves). Also, there's a good chance I will field these thunderwolves alongside the entire COF formation, so at least one unit will get PE from an attached iron priest anyway.

 

I'm not sure detachments are technically part of the apoc ruleset, but I am assuming we will allow any detachment or formation that exists in the game.

 

Any suggestions for running TWC in apoc?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, hammers look better but they cost a melta bomb extra :/

[skeletoro]

Yeah

So... would you go Wolf pack Flanking Force?

[The Rose Princes]

power mauls all the way!
2's to wound most things, AP 4 to cut through most everything, can hurt up to Armor 12 things without needing to Rend & then Rending for all the other things.

[Jochteas]

See I've considered this, but I I'm also leaning towards wolfclaws, I kinda feel that the IP would be able to handle big heavies well enough so I need the TWC to do absolutely as much damage as they can to blobs they will crash into, and shred + rend seems Soooo nice. I guess the question is, is AP 3 and Shred better then 5 points and concussive with AP 4?

[The Rose Princes]

Well the numbers are slightly better with just power weapons against MEQ: 55% vs 66%. However against anything else, mauls win, including multi wound toughness 3 overkill (and toughness 4 if you get the Furious Charge from Herald).

[Jochteas]

Can you explain why? I'm fairly new to Space Wolves so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I thought shred was pretty amazing but if I could save myself 5 points a model and have a good reason for it I'm all for it.

[Frater Cornelius]

If you play harald or wulfenstone you can get s8 on the mace. Having said that, if a multiwound model attacks me, or anything with an AV, I want to be sure that it is dead. Powerfist/Thunderhammer do that best with s10 ap2.