Representing Dark Mechanicum in the early Heresy Era

[Xin Ceithan]

So I am planning a core Dark Mechanicum force around which to grow my various Legion projects.

Sadly, information on the background and visuals are scarce. With what I remember from the BL books and the more recent FW books, let's bounce around some ideas and inspirations for modelling

 

This early in the heresy, actual khaos worshipping and demon engines are still pretty rare. It's mainly a split on the stance on various dangerous dark age technologies, loyality to Earth or Mars, to the Emperor or Horus and the interpretation of the omnissial truths.

So :

keep the mutation theme low on models.

Banners declaring loyality to the Warmaster's forces

Darker colours, maybe already going for the later black in robes, hoods and such.

The Titan Legion and Forgeworld in HH Book 3 seem more "tribal" in their rituals and outlook.

So maybe more Techno Shaman in outlook or build ? servitor Totem poles and cybernetic vision masks?

(Beastmen bodies / Skaven as basic building block for thralls?).

how much deviation from STC would be tolerated during the great crusade ( or hidden away?)

 

I am a sucker for "themes". The later loyal Adeptus Mechanicus is very cult, western church like in terminology (tech priest, factory cathedrals,etc). and while going all "dark mirror" antichristy in image and symbology to the loyalist AdMech has it charms...maybe one of you can up with a neat idea or image based on customs and cultures in your part of the world? I can come up with ideas but these are based on travels, documentaries and stereotypes:

Binary mandala? CyberKami Shrines? Reclining TitanBuddhas?

Inspire me.

[Reyner]

I think they are getting some coverage in Book 4 so that might give you some good ideas (when it appears). I would use lots of dark colours and skulls - especially animal skulls like the new Magos. Go with the techno-shaman idea so they look wild. 

[Daemon2027]

I want to do a force of proto dark Mechanicum who has started to explore xeno tech and experiment with genetics, both of which are banned I believe. They operate under the security of the XXth legion on the edge of the galaxy in the guise of a Explorator fleet, although they happily converse with alien, take part in slavery (how else to get all that wonderful bio matter) and generally have a good time.

 

For now I am using a lot of Thallax which is tech pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable. I also plan some cool conversions and a inq28 mech warband to use in both 30 and 40k environments. The army can also be used in 40k, they will be very interested in. Y friends Tau, but that of course is not valid for this forum!

 

For so e reason I want to call them heretiks which is what I thought those who took interest in xeno tech was called but I can't find where I read that.

 

Possibly not much help but I haven't really started the modelling yet.

[Xin Ceithan]

Mmh...warming to the techno shaman idea here...

 

unfortunately I just picked up Talon of Horus which will surely tie me up over the weekend :)

[Petitioner's City]

Mmh...warming to the techno shaman idea here...

unfortunately I just picked up Talon of Horus which will surely tie me up over the weekend

Which has excellent non-western, non-Judaeo-Christian depictions of Dark Mechanicus ;)

[Xin Ceithan]

 

Mmh...warming to the techno shaman idea here...

unfortunately I just picked up Talon of Horus which will surely tie me up over the weekend :)

 

 

Which has excellent non-western, non-Judaeo-Christian depictions of Dark Mechanicus ;)

Indeed. Which has me browsing the Interwebs for conversion part ideas. Probably start around the new wracks.

In other related news: After reading Talon, now I want to make a Legion Wars force as well ....

[Nehekhare]

All those other terran religions were long gone by the time the dark mech formed and even before, the admech wasn't really a religioun of (blind) faith (to which it may have degenerated later), but rather centered on philosophical enlightenment. You might want to delve a bit into gnosticism for inspiration.

I always thought of the main difference between dark and admech being their perspective on the identity of the emperor and the omnissiah (and thus, their stance on heeding his 8 "warnings"), not abolishing the philosophy of the mysteries alltogether. Once this simple barrier is gone, all manners of extremity in the pursuit of understanding may commence.

[Petitioner's City]

I don't think the OP is suggesting that the AM is inheriting the structures or beliefs of (any) Terran religion, but that the general imagery of the AM (and 40k in general) is rather Judaio-Christian, and that it is possibly helpful to look for other religious sources for DM (or indeed AM) imagery. But the thread was rather fortuitous in that finally the Talon was out, and isn't this just a rather nice description?

 

From the waist up, Governess Ceraxia was a myth coated in metal. She paced her chambers in dignified unrest, her four arms folded across her chest. Here was the Ancient Induasian goddess Kāli-kā given form, shaped from alloy-blackened bronze and iron and steel. I doubted she had taken the shape of a Goddess of Time and Destruction by intent, but the resemblance was on the haunting side of coincidence. Her face was the dark metal visage of a snarling daemoness, with slanted eyes that seemed to be smoothed obsidian ovals slotted into iron eye sockets. She spoke through clenched golden teeth, and the faint flicker light of a mouth-mounted vocaliser implant shone through the gaps in the prayer-engraved fangs. She was much less human – and much less godly – from the waist down.

 

 

It doesn't need to be deliberate (that is, an AM or DM design was influenced directly by a pre-Unity Terran religion). Still, it is more creatively interesting that design ideas more accurately reflect the diversity of humanity as it is today. One fifth of the world's population is Chinese, one fifth Indian (which is a mix of religions, but foremost Sikh, Hindu and Muslim), etc. (But it could be potentially not very PC to only show non-western or non-christian imagery on the 'baddies' though)

 

Gnosticism is a nice idea too. As I understood it, Gnosticism existed primarily with the Judaio-Christian and pagan context of early Christianity, and lacking specific culture it is more of an intellectual orientation in late antiquity than a specific church or faith-group (and therefore not a source of imagery)? But it's a great idea, and (wiki reading it) I really know very little about it.

[Daemon2027]

Gnosticism is a an early Christian 'cult' later considered a heresy, that mixed ideas of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and Greek Philosophy, among other things. The general idea is that 'god' is not material, and to reach, I supposes the modern term would be enlightenment, you must pursue knowledge or Sophia, the aspect of god seen most pure (to some Gnostics, Sophia would have been another entity I suppose like an angle). The material realm, and such our world, was made by a demiurge, who could be likened to a number of entity's, from the devil, to Jesus, and the idea is that, either by being evil or by not being complete, as in lacking Sophia, created an imperfect world. This is a rather simplistic summery and if your interested I would implore you to read up more. There were many different styles of Gnosticism.

 

I thought this would be good to base a Word Bearer sub cult off, but the more I think of it, it is perfect for, renegade Mechanicus. To reach perfection, as in the Omnissiah, they must become one with data, which is pure knowledge, and to do so, they shed their material body for machine. To become closer to pure thought. The Emperor is the demiurge, a being of the material world, one who resents the physical side of the Omnissiah, but is wholly of the flesh, and so un pure. While being of great power, and not necessarily evil, he does represent imperfection. It's a bit hard to tie the chaos gods in, but, seeing as this is 30k, they don't have to be considered gods. In fact the warp, and it entities could be seen as a physical representation of knowledge, and so is a focus of research, which is devotion. Of course they are selling themselves to another false entity but they won't see that, as the idea of gods is foreign to them.

 

But this is full of western Judaeo-Christian imagery so the OP may not be interested. However it's a great base for my Forge World Agartha.

[Petitioner's City]

Gnosticism is a an early Christian 'cult' later considered a heresy, that mixed ideas of Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and Greek Philosophy, among other things. The general idea is that 'god' is not material, and to reach, I supposes the modern term would be enlightenment, you must pursue knowledge or Sophia, the aspect of god seen most pure (to some Gnostics, Sophia would have been another entity I suppose like an angle). The material realm, and such our world, was made by a demiurge, who could be likened to a number of entity's, from the devil, to Jesus, and the idea is that, either by being evil or by not being complete, as in lacking Sophia, created an imperfect world. This is a rather simplistic summery and if your interested I would implore you to read up more. There were many different styles of Gnosticism.

=

 

I get that :) I just wondered, does it have a specific visual culture? That's what I am unaware of (and really curious about). Even early Christian visual culture is a controversial area (until the fourth century at least).

[Daemon2027]

I don't think it does, but I would think it would be close to early Christianity especially the Hellenistic style. We don't know much about Gnosticism due to the lack of written evidence, in fact before the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library it was thought to be a pre Christian religion belief that took on Christian ideals. Now it is solely considered as it's own belief system that developed out of Christianity. I would say any imagery to reference would be to look of that of Byzantium, Persian, and Egyptian Christian. Also of note is the similarities of Gnosticism to the Cathar's, which may have been influenced by Gnostic beliefs.

[Xin Ceithan]

I am indeed more on the lookout for visuals and modelling than the philosophy

(Indeed I've every faith in Alan Bligh to write a stunning piece of work in the upcoming HH books)

 

I don't think the OP is suggesting that the AM is inheriting the structures or beliefs of (any) Terran religion, but that the general imagery of the AM (and 40k in general) is rather Judaio-Christian, and that it is possibly helpful to look for other religious sources for DM (or indeed AM) imagery. But the thread was rather fortuitous in that finally the Talon was out, and isn't this just a rather nice description?

 

 

From the waist up, Governess Ceraxia was a myth coated in metal. She paced her chambers in dignified unrest, her four arms folded across her chest. Here was the Ancient Induasian goddess Kāli-kā given form, shaped from alloy-blackened bronze and iron and steel. I doubted she had taken the shape of a Goddess of Time and Destruction by intent, but the resemblance was on the haunting side of coincidence. Her face was the dark metal visage of a snarling daemoness, with slanted eyes that seemed to be smoothed obsidian ovals slotted into iron eye sockets. She spoke through clenched golden teeth, and the faint flicker light of a mouth-mounted vocaliser implant shone through the gaps in the prayer-engraved fangs. She was much less human – and much less godly – from the waist down.

 

 

It doesn't need to be deliberate (that is, an AM or DM design was influenced directly by a pre-Unity Terran religion). Still, it is more creatively interesting that design ideas more accurately reflect the diversity of humanity as it is today. One fifth of the world's population is Chinese, one fifth Indian (which is a mix of religions, but foremost Sikh, Hindu and Muslim), etc. (But it could be potentially not very PC to only show non-western or non-christian imagery on the 'baddies' though)

This sums up my thoughts pretty eloquently. I am looking for a "variation on a theme" in " musical terms". something to set the models apart from the "everyday" Mechanicum while still showing the common root. ToH's Kali style archmaga hits the spot.

 

 

The Gnostic part may bring up some ideas though. And it's indeed a nice idea for a WB warband.

[Daemon2027]

Sorry I was sort of derailing the thread with Gnosticism, a subject I find interesting but one many people know little about.

 

I think Eastern Mythology is perfect to create a different style. Don't be afraid to look at the Persian religions and myths, as they influenced a lot of the Indian Subcontinent, as well as impacting on the west, especially in Greece and later, Byzantium. Islam can be another point of interest, as could Judaism. My own Forge World will be influenced by a mix of Agartha and Shambhala, as well as Gnosticism. I don't really see them as Dark Mechanicum at this point, but I could imagine the fall, and I can't see them being loyal to the imperium.

[Nehekhare]

gnosticism lives from the eklectic mixture of christian, pagan greek, persian and egyptian "styles", but it would be best described as what "hermetic" mysticism/magic is depicted like in fantasy etc.

 

personally, I like the ancient sumeric touch they gave the Therians in the old french game AT-43. Their minis epitomize the vision of the dark mechanicum to me (plus they come prepainted and are still around for cheap haha)

 

http://www.chuck-a-con.net/AT43TherianTiamatHeroBox.jpghttp://chaosorc.com/images/ATT17.jpghttp://www.boardgames.ca/reg/thta01_reg2.jpg

[Xin Ceithan]

Hmm, I think I have the Therian Armybook lying around somewhere. and they do make nice Skitarii.

Somehow, I was looking for something not so obvious copied ;) Might use Alchemist of Dirz while we are at it :p