a composite list of novels no longer canon

[Rheteric]

Almost all 40k novels are worth reading in my opinion. They all mostly have something appealling about them...however it has come to my attention that many plot-points/story-archs and characters have been retconned or have been deemed non-canonical(sp?) Over the years...

 

So id like everyone with knowledge on the subject to list novels/stories or 'important' plots and characters that they know to be no longer part of wh40k canon(yes, I realize its a daunting task but one well-worth discussing and potentially archiving loosely)

 

For example,

I read in some grimly dark corners of the web that ian watson's inquisition wars was largely retconned as far as lore goes and much of the fighting/action described in C.S Goto's Blood Raven's omnibus is not canon-friendly when regarding the eldar. I'm not 100% sure hhow true any of this is which is why id like to discuss it and similar instances/matters

 

To my knowledge the whole 'sensei'/illuminati/starchild arc has been chocked up to a nefariously cunning tzeentchian cult.

 

Lastly, I heard the warhammer fantasy world was actually part of 40k at one point(cut off indefinitely by a warp-storm).but that idea was retconned(unfortunately so imho). Idk about anyone else, but id love to read about a serious void-battle going on and out of nowhere a large Black Pyramid blotting out some stars ominously enters the fray. Gotta love Nagash :-D

 

Well, that's really all I got for now.I thank you all in advance for helping to educate me on the perpetually astonishing lore of the 40k universe!

[Marshal Rohr]

There are no novels that are canon. Only novels that line up with the current version of events coming out of the studio.

[Bryan Blaire]

Everything you have been told is the truth. Everything you have been told is a lie. What they told you was true... from a certain point of view. You'll find many of the truths you cling to depend greatly upon your own point of view. ;)

 

(40K is not Star Wars with a concrete canon determination. Search the 'Net for "40K Loose Canon" for more on how 40K's material works. Kenobi's quote works better for 40K canon than it ever did for the way they made Star Wars canon work.)

[Chaeron]

There's no reason why it can't be true at that point to that person...

 

Subjectivity of truth and truths.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

as long as GW can sell you a product, it'll be canon somewhere.

 

WLK

[Olis]

This thread may or may not enlighten you somewhat on 40k Canon and people's attitudes towards it, Rhetoric. It's not definitive - just people's opinions on the matter.

[Urauloth]

I think the only exception to the "loose canon" thing is that nothing CS Goto wrote is canon, nothing CS Goto thinks is canon, CS Goto himself is not canon, and this is immutable.

[incinerator950]

This thread may or may not enlighten you somewhat on 40k Canon and people's attitudes towards it, Rhetoric. It's not definitive - just people's opinions on the matter.

Been my philosophy since I first started.

[Rheteric]

Thanks for the opinions ,thoughts, and insight guys...I think lol

And for the record, I spelled my user name as such intentionally :-x

[Phoebus]

A respected author who frequents this forum has addressed this topic a number of times. He's cited one of the setting's central figures (in terms of design, creative direction, etc.) on the matter. If you're trying to eliminate something that has the Warhammer 40k logo on it as "non-canon", you're going about things the wrong way. This is a setting of forgotten legends, incomplete records, lies, propaganda, and differing perspectives. It's all canon.

[SteelPaladin]

I just posted this in the Xenology thread, but it definitely applies here too.

 

http://www.boomtron.com/2011/03/grimdark-ii-loose-canon/

[Bulwyf]

All of it is canon because you as the reader can either believe it or believe something else that contradicts an existing lore item. I would point to the retconning of Black Templars from something kinda cool to something really horrible in a recent novel as an example.

[Rheteric]

Iappreciate . The links and input everyone

Although i love 40k it really gets to me that the plot offocially cant really go anywhere or devrlop on the scale that a aeeies not bound to a ttg could. At the same time,i do respect the players and thus understand why its set up like that. However i do think ots kinda ridiculous that many people (in all probability correctly)presume that the novels are all EQUALLY (in)accurate

 

For example, i feel that its fairly obvious that the nightlords omnobus is of greater canonical value than the blood angels omnibus. I also get the impression that the horus hheresy novels(or at least the first 3-6)hold more canonical valie than most all bl novels set in 40k proper.

 

I mean what about all the retconned stuff?i havent seen a half eldar half human ultramarine in a while lol

[Conn Eremon]

Nothing has "more canonical value," except in consideration of your own personal tastes and preferences.

 

You might see more weight given to what you mentioned here on this forum, but it doesn't actually have more value in canon, such as it is (or in this case, isn't), it is just more widely accepted as being "good." It has more value to a wider audience, who then give its lore more credence.

[SpecialIssue]

In short - the 'canon' is literally what you make it.

 

There is no hard and fast 'universal' or 'creator-sanctioned' canon. Only a fan's personal interpretation of canon (read: head-canon)

 

The stories on this website's fan fiction forum have the same 'canonical value' as A-DB's and Abnett's work.

 

If you want to believe that there is a half-eldar marine, or that somewhere in the galaxy there are female space marines, then you can. I'm not going to stop you - just ignore those specific contributions to 40k in my own personal head-canon.

 

As said, 40k isn't a story or chronology. It is a vision and a setting in which to tell an infinite number of stories of your choice.

[mc warhammer]

yeah, but generally speaking you can apply your whims to any setting or universe, whether 40k or not. people will do that anyway despite official policy encouraging it.

 

I'd have an easier time with the policy if the publications reflected it more accurately- if everything from day 1 is considered equal canon then don't shy away from ALL of it. bring on the half eldar trilogy where he must prove his worth to his brother space marines. or the rainbow warriors as part of the first founding or whatever as a short story. then next month publish a story contradicting all that.

 

if everything is or could be true, go ahead and publish everything.

 

otherwise it seems like the publisher is saying "we publish a current continuity and you should cherry pick what you like from over the years, however do not expect anything from those times to show up ever again officially. but its legit in your head" if there is no true cohesion or continuity, then why act like there is? why not publish 7 garro stories where each has him take on a different fate laid out in the IA article? take the policy and run with it to its fullest extent.

[Disciple of Fulgrim]

The whole "40K canon is what you make of it argument" is true up to a point, but many folks (IMO) push this way, way too hard.

 

For example, back in Rogue Trader days, Space Marines could use Graviton Guns and Shuriken Catapults.  Both of these weapon choices went away for many years, but now Grav Guns are back. 

 

So imagine you're reading a current BL work, say from an author you really like, and the Space Marines therein suddenly start running around with Shuriken Catapults - what would you think?  "How imaginative!" or "What a crock of horsedung!"?  Current (and enduring) canon is that Space Marines wield bolters as their primary weapon, and any argument/story to the contrary is (currently) patently ridiculous.  That's canon.

 

Just because 40K's canon is extremely loose, and has changed over the years, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.