BA Today

[Blindhamster]

Man, do I detest these new monopose Primaris kits..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YuEcbRTjO4

 

I honestly think this is an excellent explanation on why its a strange attitude.

[Xenith]

Man, do I detest these new monopose Primaris kits..

 

Haha, it's weird, right? I mean, I love the old metal monoposes. I think it's becuse we know they were the best available at the time, and since we've had multipart, monopose seems a step backwards. 

 

The kits are still quite customisable, you just need to put a bit more effort into it, same as the old metals. 

[Charlo]

 

 

 

 

I don't really plan to buy any firstborn outside of Heresy and I'd rather a different chapter for Primaris methinks.

Yeah well.. I hear you, and I did exactly that.

Haha, me three, though I stayed a little closer to home with the Primaris colour schemes. I'm using a variety of successor chapters which can use whatever chapter tactics I see fit.

Ha I'm too indecisive to make my own successor, but I am straying... Dorn-ward myself, albeit the choppier variety

[appiah4]

 

 

Man, do I detest these new monopose Primaris kits..

 

I honestly think this is an excellent explanation on why its a strange attitude.

It is deluded rambling that attempts to justify things by completely ignoring half the argument, namely intra-kit compatability and kitbashing opportunities. He also completely ignores the character/model customization aspect by neglecting to note the disappearance of amazing options we got in boxes like SM Captain - which also ended up having the effect of castrating the rules in turn. Finally he focuses on a ten year old Tac Squad kit in order to ignore how detailed and dynamic multipose kits can actually be as proven by Deathwatch kits. It is garbage. Edited November 30, 2020 by appiah5

[Blindhamster]

 

 

Man, do I detest these new monopose Primaris kits..

 

I honestly think this is an excellent explanation on why its a strange attitude.

It is deluded rambling that attempts to justify things by completely ignoring half the argument, namely intra-kit compatability and kitbashing opportunities. He also completely ignores the character/model customization aspect by neglecting to note the disappearance of amazing options we got in boxes like SM Captain - which also ended up having the effect of castrating the rules in turn. Finally he focuses on a ten year old Tac Squad kit in order to ignore how detailed and dynamic multipose kits can actually be as proven by Deathwatch kits. It is garbage.

 

As we get more primaris kits, the intra-kit compatibility has increased a lot, rievers, incursors/infiltrators and eliminators are pretty cross compatible as many show. Similarly, hellblasters, intercessors and now assault intercessors are. I imagine the new gravis units will be too.

 

The "boxes like the SM Captain" thing is kind of a joke... it was pretty much the only character box to ever get that level of customisation, and it was OLD (I remember buying my first one around 16 or 17 years ago, the quality of its parts really hadn't aged well (but it was great on release!), other armies pretty much always had the monopose thing, the chaos terminator lord kit didn't come close to the options of the space marine commander kit and it's the only other one I can think of that had much in the way of options, otherwise its been the odd head swap and maybe a weapon swap (much like say... the new sisters of battle canoness).

 

Anyway, there are some GREAT customised character models using these monopose kits as a base. Just like there has ALWAYS been conversions of those kind of kits - in fact the best character models are either sculpted by individuals capable of doing it, or built using an existing higher detail monopose character as a base. It's rare they're made from multipart kits and actually look particularly unique or special (except where the paint job provides that distinctiveness). So again, I disagree and think a lot of it is rose tinted glasses as anyone with the skill to do good conversions will do just as good a job now as before but the people that arent as skilled or simply no longer have the time have much nicer base models to start with.

 

The deathwatch squad is indeed great, but to say its way more posable than other modern kits isn't really true, the waist can be turned a little or leant one way or another, otherwise the level of posability is the same. The level of detail is of course the same, they're made using the same technologies and fairly contemporary with eachother, however the actual dynamism is easier to create authentically if the torso and legs are joined because it doesn't look dorky if the abdomen is twisted (belt buckle on the armour shouldn't move overmuch compared to the pelvis, the cables should bend/stretch based on the pose - the best example i can think of is the marine captain with the wings on his face they did for raven guard originally - this is something newer kits also do and its a detail that is easy to appreciate (as is the detail around the crotch where the armour plating is typically a lot better defined.

 

Oh and deathwatch marines aren't dynamic, they're simply in an upright walking pose - which is amazing and they instantly became my favourite marine legs, even if they aren't as easily compatible with other marine torsos as the ball on the top is slightly wider so other torsos dont quite sit right on them. Dynamic multipart marines would be the last assault marines - but they were also weirdly scaled and horrible resulting in mini marines sadly (arms were great though).

 

He actually uses models from the 2013 tactical squad (the last tactical squad released afaik) and the 2016 iron armour squad in the video... the latter isn't exacty old and both being the last releases for line troops in core marines, and the only really special thing about the mk3 set it was that it was infinitely better than the resin versions that came before due to no resin slippage or warpage. Anyway, neither kit is 10 years old, one is only barely 4 in fact.

 

The rules were castrated because of companies muscling in on "gamesworkshops" domain and making all the alternative parts - it was a market GW didn't want to or perhaps couldn't tap into, and they didn't want other companies riding on their laurels I suppose. Although again, most other armies have never really "enjoyed" the level of customisation in terms of mechanics options that Marines have, so there could even (shockingly) be a level of attempted balance being driven for there longer term.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Blindhamster

[WrathOfTheLion]

The MK III kit is a bit of an intermediary to the new primaris kits, notably by splitting the leg into two pieces.

 

Merging torso and leg with the primaris kits is just one step further there, so at least gradual.

 

Paired torso and legs doesn't much bother me. I think the primaris infantry kits are fine.

 

Characters need more options. For their price, being just a small sprue with nothing isn't acceptable to me. Lazarus/DA master should be the standard there I think.

[Blindhamster]

The MK III kit is a bit of an intermediary to the new primaris kits, notably by splitting the leg into two pieces.

 

Merging torso and leg with the primaris kits is just one step further there, so at least gradual.

 

Paired torso and legs doesn't much bother me. I think the primaris infantry kits are fine.

 

Characters need more options. For their price, being just a small sprue with nothing isn't acceptable to me. Lazarus/DA master should be the standard there I think.

on that we agree, giving a few of the options in the kits would be nice, Lazarus/DA Master is definitely the standard they /should/ aspire to for character kits. He's still "monopose" in that his legs and body are one piece. But the option of a couple of melee weapons and gun or no gun is an improvement that would be good to see (unlikely though it sadly is)

[WrathOfTheLion]

Definitely still monopose, but at least there's some considerations like ensuring the arm is clear from the torso, the shoulderpad isn't attached, etc. So I think by virtue of having options, the kit has been opened up a little more.

[Majkhel]

Having worked with Primaris for a bit now, I can definitely tell that they are more demanding in terms of customisation. Straight out of the box, firstborn gave more options, and those they did not give, were easy to achieve by simply cutting and re-gluing. Free to position heads, torsos on legs, arms, rotating wrists, plethora of weapon options.

But exactly because I remembered this, and lacked this with the early Primaris kits, they made me grow in terms of sculpting and kit-bashing skills. With firstborn, I usually only ever draw a knife to cut them out of sprues or change the positioning of the arm. With Primaris, I'm getting more and more confident in cutting them to pieces and rebuilding them back up using not only glue, but also sculpting putty.

From the time perspective, for me personally Primaris sculpts are one door (being) closed, but another opened.

[appiah4]

 

As we get more primaris kits, the intra-kit compatibility has increased a lot, rievers, incursors/infiltrators and eliminators are pretty cross compatible as many show. Similarly, hellblasters, intercessors and now assault intercessors are. I imagine the new gravis units will be too.

 

The "boxes like the SM Captain" thing is kind of a joke... it was pretty much the only character box to ever get that level of customisation, and it was OLD (I remember buying my first one around 16 or 17 years ago, the quality of its parts really hadn't aged well (but it was great on release!), other armies pretty much always had the monopose thing, the chaos terminator lord kit didn't come close to the options of the space marine commander kit and it's the only other one I can think of that had much in the way of options, otherwise its been the odd head swap and maybe a weapon swap (much like say... the new sisters of battle canoness).

 

Anyway, there are some GREAT customised character models using these monopose kits as a base. Just like there has ALWAYS been conversions of those kind of kits - in fact the best character models are either sculpted by individuals capable of doing it, or built using an existing higher detail monopose character as a base. It's rare they're made from multipart kits and actually look particularly unique or special (except where the paint job provides that distinctiveness). So again, I disagree and think a lot of it is rose tinted glasses as anyone with the skill to do good conversions will do just as good a job now as before but the people that arent as skilled or simply no longer have the time have much nicer base models to start with.

 

The deathwatch squad is indeed great, but to say its way more posable than other modern kits isn't really true, the waist can be turned a little or leant one way or another, otherwise the level of posability is the same. The level of detail is of course the same, they're made using the same technologies and fairly contemporary with eachother, however the actual dynamism is easier to create authentically if the torso and legs are joined because it doesn't look dorky if the abdomen is twisted (belt buckle on the armour shouldn't move overmuch compared to the pelvis, the cables should bend/stretch based on the pose - the best example i can think of is the marine captain with the wings on his face they did for raven guard originally - this is something newer kits also do and its a detail that is easy to appreciate (as is the detail around the crotch where the armour plating is typically a lot better defined.

 

Oh and deathwatch marines aren't dynamic, they're simply in an upright walking pose - which is amazing and they instantly became my favourite marine legs, even if they aren't as easily compatible with other marine torsos as the ball on the top is slightly wider so other torsos dont quite sit right on them. Dynamic multipart marines would be the last assault marines - but they were also weirdly scaled and horrible resulting in mini marines sadly (arms were great though).

 

He actually uses models from the 2013 tactical squad (the last tactical squad released afaik) and the 2016 iron armour squad in the video... the latter isn't exacty old and both being the last releases for line troops in core marines, and the only really special thing about the mk3 set it was that it was infinitely better than the resin versions that came before due to no resin slippage or warpage. Anyway, neither kit is 10 years old, one is only barely 4 in fact.

 

The rules were castrated because of companies muscling in on "gamesworkshops" domain and making all the alternative parts - it was a market GW didn't want to or perhaps couldn't tap into, and they didn't want other companies riding on their laurels I suppose. Although again, most other armies have never really "enjoyed" the level of customisation in terms of mechanics options that Marines have, so there could even (shockingly) be a level of attempted balance being driven for there longer term.

 

I started typing up a response to this and at 2000 characters I stopped, deciding I did not want to derail this whole conversation completely.  Let it just be said I think 90% of the above is absolutely, totally and objectively wrong.

[Blindhamster]

Having worked with Primaris for a bit now, I can definitely tell that they are more demanding in terms of customisation. Straight out of the box, firstborn gave more options, and those they did not give, were easy to achieve by simply cutting and re-gluing. Free to position heads, torsos on legs, arms, rotating wrists, plethora of weapon options.

 

But exactly because I remembered this, and lacked this with the early Primaris kits, they made me grow in terms of sculpting and kit-bashing skills. With firstborn, I usually only ever draw a knife to cut them out of sprues or change the positioning of the arm. With Primaris, I'm getting more and more confident in cutting them to pieces and rebuilding them back up using not only glue, but also sculpting putty.

 

From the time perspective, for me personally Primaris sculpts are one door (being) closed, but another opened.

Pretty interesting feedback, I too have worked with them since creation and actually customising them never felt more difficult than marines, in fact the base kit comes with more accessories than other kits, and even came with enough bare heads that every model could have one as well as a pretty good amount of arm poses per kit too. But yeah at release there wasn't as much intra kit compatibility due to there really only being one kit per armour type (two in the case of tacticus). But on an individual kit perspective I felt like there were good options, and throwing in some chapter (primaris or normal) upgrades helped quite a bit.

 

Customising the true monopose ones that came with dark imperium/indomitus required a lot more effort though, becaue of the often odd ways those kits went together for sure (if thats what you were referring to)

 

 

As we get more primaris kits, the intra-kit compatibility has increased a lot, rievers, incursors/infiltrators and eliminators are pretty cross compatible as many show. Similarly, hellblasters, intercessors and now assault intercessors are. I imagine the new gravis units will be too.

 

The "boxes like the SM Captain" thing is kind of a joke... it was pretty much the only character box to ever get that level of customisation, and it was OLD (I remember buying my first one around 16 or 17 years ago, the quality of its parts really hadn't aged well (but it was great on release!), other armies pretty much always had the monopose thing, the chaos terminator lord kit didn't come close to the options of the space marine commander kit and it's the only other one I can think of that had much in the way of options, otherwise its been the odd head swap and maybe a weapon swap (much like say... the new sisters of battle canoness).

 

Anyway, there are some GREAT customised character models using these monopose kits as a base. Just like there has ALWAYS been conversions of those kind of kits - in fact the best character models are either sculpted by individuals capable of doing it, or built using an existing higher detail monopose character as a base. It's rare they're made from multipart kits and actually look particularly unique or special (except where the paint job provides that distinctiveness). So again, I disagree and think a lot of it is rose tinted glasses as anyone with the skill to do good conversions will do just as good a job now as before but the people that arent as skilled or simply no longer have the time have much nicer base models to start with.

 

The deathwatch squad is indeed great, but to say its way more posable than other modern kits isn't really true, the waist can be turned a little or leant one way or another, otherwise the level of posability is the same. The level of detail is of course the same, they're made using the same technologies and fairly contemporary with eachother, however the actual dynamism is easier to create authentically if the torso and legs are joined because it doesn't look dorky if the abdomen is twisted (belt buckle on the armour shouldn't move overmuch compared to the pelvis, the cables should bend/stretch based on the pose - the best example i can think of is the marine captain with the wings on his face they did for raven guard originally - this is something newer kits also do and its a detail that is easy to appreciate (as is the detail around the crotch where the armour plating is typically a lot better defined.

 

Oh and deathwatch marines aren't dynamic, they're simply in an upright walking pose - which is amazing and they instantly became my favourite marine legs, even if they aren't as easily compatible with other marine torsos as the ball on the top is slightly wider so other torsos dont quite sit right on them. Dynamic multipart marines would be the last assault marines - but they were also weirdly scaled and horrible resulting in mini marines sadly (arms were great though).

 

He actually uses models from the 2013 tactical squad (the last tactical squad released afaik) and the 2016 iron armour squad in the video... the latter isn't exacty old and both being the last releases for line troops in core marines, and the only really special thing about the mk3 set it was that it was infinitely better than the resin versions that came before due to no resin slippage or warpage. Anyway, neither kit is 10 years old, one is only barely 4 in fact.

 

The rules were castrated because of companies muscling in on "gamesworkshops" domain and making all the alternative parts - it was a market GW didn't want to or perhaps couldn't tap into, and they didn't want other companies riding on their laurels I suppose. Although again, most other armies have never really "enjoyed" the level of customisation in terms of mechanics options that Marines have, so there could even (shockingly) be a level of attempted balance being driven for there longer term.

 

I started typing up a response to this and at 2000 characters I stopped, deciding I did not want to derail this whole conversation completely.  Let it just be said I think 90% of the above is absolutely, totally and objectively wrong.

 

Thats fine, you're wrong that it could be objectively wrong. It might be subjectively wrong in your opinion though.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Blindhamster

[WrathOfTheLion]

The assault intercessor and bladeguard kits I think will be critical mass with them. Once those are out, so much to do with sergeants, etc., especially for DA, BT and maybe even BA.

[nagashnee]

 

Having worked with Primaris for a bit now, I can definitely tell that they are more demanding in terms of customisation. Straight out of the box, firstborn gave more options, and those they did not give, were easy to achieve by simply cutting and re-gluing. Free to position heads, torsos on legs, arms, rotating wrists, plethora of weapon options.

 

But exactly because I remembered this, and lacked this with the early Primaris kits, they made me grow in terms of sculpting and kit-bashing skills. With firstborn, I usually only ever draw a knife to cut them out of sprues or change the positioning of the arm. With Primaris, I'm getting more and more confident in cutting them to pieces and rebuilding them back up using not only glue, but also sculpting putty.

 

From the time perspective, for me personally Primaris sculpts are one door (being) closed, but another opened.

Pretty interesting feedback, I too have worked with them since creation and actually customising them never felt more difficult than marines, in fact the base kit comes with more accessories than other kits, and even came with enough bare heads that every model could have one as well as a pretty good amount of arm poses per kit too. But yeah at release there wasn't as much intra kit compatibility due to there really only being one kit per armour type (two in the case of tacticus). But on an individual kit perspective I felt like there were good options, and throwing in some chapter (primaris or normal) upgrades helped quite a bit.

 

Customising the true monopose ones that came with dark imperium/indomitus required a lot more effort though, becaue of the often odd ways those kits went together for sure (if thats what you were referring to)

 

 

As we get more primaris kits, the intra-kit compatibility has increased a lot, rievers, incursors/infiltrators and eliminators are pretty cross compatible as many show. Similarly, hellblasters, intercessors and now assault intercessors are. I imagine the new gravis units will be too.

 

The "boxes like the SM Captain" thing is kind of a joke... it was pretty much the only character box to ever get that level of customisation, and it was OLD (I remember buying my first one around 16 or 17 years ago, the quality of its parts really hadn't aged well (but it was great on release!), other armies pretty much always had the monopose thing, the chaos terminator lord kit didn't come close to the options of the space marine commander kit and it's the only other one I can think of that had much in the way of options, otherwise its been the odd head swap and maybe a weapon swap (much like say... the new sisters of battle canoness).

 

Anyway, there are some GREAT customised character models using these monopose kits as a base. Just like there has ALWAYS been conversions of those kind of kits - in fact the best character models are either sculpted by individuals capable of doing it, or built using an existing higher detail monopose character as a base. It's rare they're made from multipart kits and actually look particularly unique or special (except where the paint job provides that distinctiveness). So again, I disagree and think a lot of it is rose tinted glasses as anyone with the skill to do good conversions will do just as good a job now as before but the people that arent as skilled or simply no longer have the time have much nicer base models to start with.

 

The deathwatch squad is indeed great, but to say its way more posable than other modern kits isn't really true, the waist can be turned a little or leant one way or another, otherwise the level of posability is the same. The level of detail is of course the same, they're made using the same technologies and fairly contemporary with eachother, however the actual dynamism is easier to create authentically if the torso and legs are joined because it doesn't look dorky if the abdomen is twisted (belt buckle on the armour shouldn't move overmuch compared to the pelvis, the cables should bend/stretch based on the pose - the best example i can think of is the marine captain with the wings on his face they did for raven guard originally - this is something newer kits also do and its a detail that is easy to appreciate (as is the detail around the crotch where the armour plating is typically a lot better defined.

 

Oh and deathwatch marines aren't dynamic, they're simply in an upright walking pose - which is amazing and they instantly became my favourite marine legs, even if they aren't as easily compatible with other marine torsos as the ball on the top is slightly wider so other torsos dont quite sit right on them. Dynamic multipart marines would be the last assault marines - but they were also weirdly scaled and horrible resulting in mini marines sadly (arms were great though).

 

He actually uses models from the 2013 tactical squad (the last tactical squad released afaik) and the 2016 iron armour squad in the video... the latter isn't exacty old and both being the last releases for line troops in core marines, and the only really special thing about the mk3 set it was that it was infinitely better than the resin versions that came before due to no resin slippage or warpage. Anyway, neither kit is 10 years old, one is only barely 4 in fact.

 

The rules were castrated because of companies muscling in on "gamesworkshops" domain and making all the alternative parts - it was a market GW didn't want to or perhaps couldn't tap into, and they didn't want other companies riding on their laurels I suppose. Although again, most other armies have never really "enjoyed" the level of customisation in terms of mechanics options that Marines have, so there could even (shockingly) be a level of attempted balance being driven for there longer term.

 

I started typing up a response to this and at 2000 characters I stopped, deciding I did not want to derail this whole conversation completely.  Let it just be said I think 90% of the above is absolutely, totally and objectively wrong.

 

Thats fine, you're wrong that it could be objectively wrong. It might be subjectively wrong in your opinion though.

 

Another vote for you are wrong, subjectively or otherwise. GW has been going out of its way to make life hell for anyone wanting to mix kits, use 3rd party bits or generally build the models in ways not show on the box cover.

Edited December 1, 2020 by nagashnee

[Jolemai]

Moving on folks...

[BluejayJunior]

 

Another vote for you are wrong, subjectively or otherwise. GW has been going out of its way to make life hell for anyone wanting to mix kits, use 3rd party bits or generally build the models in ways not show on the box cover.

 

 

I agree with Blindhamster. You're the one that is objectively (to use the word correctly) wrong about mixing kits. Which can be demonstrated by the fact that Intercessors, Hellblasters, and Assault Intercessors are all easily able to be mixed around. And there is a lot of pose-ability and options in those kits. There is more differentiation/uniqueness in a box of 10 Intercessors than there is in a box of 10 Tactical Marines. Unless you are doing lots of cutting, at least 50% of tactical marines end up with the generic "bolter held across chest" standing pose. 

There is nothing wrong with preferring the older kits to the newer ones. But too many people go overboard on the "problems" with the new kits. 

[nagashnee]

 

 

Another vote for you are wrong, subjectively or otherwise. GW has been going out of its way to make life hell for anyone wanting to mix kits, use 3rd party bits or generally build the models in ways not show on the box cover.

 

 

I agree with Blindhamster. You're the one that is objectively (to use the word correctly) wrong about mixing kits. Which can be demonstrated by the fact that Intercessors, Hellblasters, and Assault Intercessors are all easily able to be mixed around. And there is a lot of pose-ability and options in those kits. There is more differentiation/uniqueness in a box of 10 Intercessors than there is in a box of 10 Tactical Marines. Unless you are doing lots of cutting, at least 50% of tactical marines end up with the generic "bolter held across chest" standing pose. 

There is nothing wrong with preferring the older kits to the newer ones. But too many people go overboard on the "problems" with the new kits. 

 

Comparing the Blood Angel tactical box to the primaris intercessor as the LESSER of the two, only makes me certain that we will never ever agree on what constitutes a well designed, unique, and extreme cross compatible box of models. 

 

What next original death company box vs primaris death company box?   

[BluejayJunior]

 

 

 

Another vote for you are wrong, subjectively or otherwise. GW has been going out of its way to make life hell for anyone wanting to mix kits, use 3rd party bits or generally build the models in ways not show on the box cover.

 

 

I agree with Blindhamster. You're the one that is objectively (to use the word correctly) wrong about mixing kits. Which can be demonstrated by the fact that Intercessors, Hellblasters, and Assault Intercessors are all easily able to be mixed around. And there is a lot of pose-ability and options in those kits. There is more differentiation/uniqueness in a box of 10 Intercessors than there is in a box of 10 Tactical Marines. Unless you are doing lots of cutting, at least 50% of tactical marines end up with the generic "bolter held across chest" standing pose. 

There is nothing wrong with preferring the older kits to the newer ones. But too many people go overboard on the "problems" with the new kits. 

 

Comparing the Blood Angel tactical box to the primaris intercessor as the LESSER of the two, only makes me certain that we will never ever agree on what constitutes a well designed, unique, and extreme cross compatible box of models. 

 

What next original death company box vs primaris death company box?   

 

I will agree that the Blood Angels tactical box has much more character in terms of decorations and ornamentation on the armor. Intercessors, etc. are much more bland in that regard with their plain armor. I would never claim otherwise in that regard. And the number of extra bits isn't even close. 

I was speaking in terms of posing. The new kits are not as monopose as the detractors try to make it seem. I think there is more uniqueness in that department in the Primaris kits than in the older kits. At least out of the box, without doing extra cutting and more advanced modeling. 

[Karhedron]

The new kits are not as monopose as the detractors try to make it seem. I think there is more uniqueness in that department in the Primaris kits than in the older kits. At least out of the box, without doing extra cutting and more advanced modeling.

Yes the Primaris kits probably have a greater variety of poses per kit. But most individual figures can be built in one pose and one pose only. Sergeants have a bit more variation but only a bit. This means that if you build 2 boxes of Intercessors, you will end up with 2 identical squads (more or less) even if there is greater variation within a squad.

 

I do love the level of detail and crispness on the new Primaris models but the lack of customisability and interchangeability between kits is a tad disappointing. I am an experienced modeller and I am quite happy to hack stuff about but I gained those skills working on cheap(ish) and interchangeable kits like the firstborn range. For someone coming new to the hobby, acquiring those skills (or even realising they exist) will be a lot more daunting.

 

Having said that, Captain Lazarus was a good step forward representing a special character and a couple of different generic character builds in the same kit. If we see more like this going forward, I would be satisfied.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Lazarus/Master kit was excellent for that. Although it was extremely disappointing to not have a real character kit, that one is serviceable across all successors with ease and added a lot to the faction.

 

Conversely, playing a BA successor, Mephiston's kit isn't of use to me. So that one fundamentally served the core audience better I think.

 

When taken into the context of serving Unforgiven players as a whole compared to serving those that play Sons of Sanguinius as a whole, there is a vast difference in what one adds to the hobby.

Edited December 1, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Blindhamster]

 

The new kits are not as monopose as the detractors try to make it seem. I think there is more uniqueness in that department in the Primaris kits than in the older kits. At least out of the box, without doing extra cutting and more advanced modeling.

Yes the Primaris kits probably have a greater variety of poses per kit. But most individual figures can be built in one pose and one pose only. Sergeants have a bit more variation but only a bit. This means that if you build 2 boxes of Intercessors, you will end up with 2 identical squads (more or less) even if there is greater variation within a squad.

 

I do love the level of detail and crispness on the new Primaris models but the lack of customisability and interchangeability between kits is a tad disappointing. I am an experienced modeller and I am quite happy to hack stuff about but I gained those skills working on cheap(ish) and interchangeable kits like the firstborn range. For someone coming new to the hobby, acquiring those skills (or even realising they exist) will be a lot more daunting.

 

Having said that, Captain Lazarus was a good step forward representing a special character and a couple of different generic character builds in the same kit. If we see more like this going forward, I would be satisfied.

It's funny, my veteran intercessor squad is made from a mix of multi part intercessors, mono pose intercessors, multi part hellblasters and mono pose hellblasters. The dark imperium bits obviously have some pretty minimal cutting (to remove the molded on shoulder pads where necessary) but otherwise they were no issue at all to mix. I even mixed some firstborn bits in too.

 

On the point of Blood Angel's tactical squad "character" - yeah it absolutely has more, too much actually as it makes them all feel like veterans, I always had to mix it with regular tactical marine bits to reduce the bling to less ott levels. Doesnt make it a bad kit and is, as suggested, a testament to the interchange ability of the range.

 

That said, you could as easily use blood angel tactical arms on rievers to make them more 'rievery' as they're the same size and cabrines and bolt guns effectively look the same.

 

I just fail to see how the primaris kits are objectively worse for posing, when the only area that cant be posed is the waist - which was way more limited (without looking stupid) on tactical marines etc than people seem to want to admit.

 

 

Both ranges are excellent with their own strengths, the fact that essentially all firstborn marine kits are 100% interchangeable is clearly a HUGE strength for variety. Where primaris kits are only interchangeable in subsets based on armour type.

 

With the the exception of the space marine commander, the two marine types are like for like in terms of character models and it's not even due to marines losing multi part characters. They never really had any (other than the one mentioned).

 

Fact of the matter is though, nobody is objectively right or wrong here, because it's all just opinions and based on what qualities you value the most in the models.

 

 

I do agree that it sucks codexes are losing options, but I don't think its down to monopose kits, as the trend began a while ago with them removing options from most armies that didnt have specific official kits. Marines were just spoiled and held out far longer.

 

Anyway, we are all Blood Angel's and all deserving of the right to our views. But as blood angel players we probably should attempt to be polite to eachother too. So sorry if I upset anyone, I rose to a comment that irked me and should have know lmao better

[smileyjim]

Fear not the monopose!

 

Your army is full of unique and beautiful snowflakes as no one in the world will have tilted that arm to quite the degree you did, or glue that sholderpad in a superior jaunty way that only the unbounded creativity inherent in your vaunted soul can muster.

Forward brothers! We shall march our special lego men to victory!

 

Remember what primarch Sanguinius said,

"We are each a wondrous snowflake, a pinnacle of hobbying excellence but when join our great strength together on the battlefield we just look like damn snow."

[Jolemai]

New Unit of the Week entry:

• Invader ATV Squad

[Xenith]

I had an idea for a super debuff Reiver Lt which I posted in the SM section as it's a generic choice, but could do with more thoughts on how to use him. 

[Warhead01]

I find myself in the interesting position of having a little Christmas money. 
I called my good friend to ask his advice and we're thinking I should spring for 3 Hammerfall bunkers. 
I'm not 100% sure though. 

 

Is any one using them?

[Karhedron]

No one seems to be using Hammerfall Bunkers as far as I have seen. Their have mediocre BS and are immobile. Even Dark Angel players (who favour a more static, shooty approach) seem to find them underwhelming.

 

If you like the models, go for it. If you are looking for something reasonably playable, I would probably look elsewhere.