Great Company Formation in Codex vs Great Company in Apoc

[Vampyrer0me0]

I am just curious if I can still use the one in the Apocolypse book. It seems to be a better show of what I would think a great company is, and the rules seem better. Has anyone tested them both out yet?

[Inquisitor Kravin]

For those of us without the book(s) to hand, could you please provide a quick comparison of key differences and why you prefer the Apocalypse one?

[Vampyrer0me0]

Ok the Apoc one: 

1 Wolf Lord

1 Wolf Priest

1 Rune Priest

0-1 Iron Priest

1 WGBL

1 Wolf Guard Pack

0-2 TWC

5+ Grey Hunters

3+ Blood Claws or Skyclaws

2+ Long Fangs

1 Wolf Scouts

0-3 Lone Wolves

0-3 Swiftclaw

0-3 Fenrisian Wolves

3+ Dreadnaughts

And they gain Stubborn, Howl of the Wolf and Ice Cold Efficiancy.

Howl of the wolf: once per game the wolf lord and all friendly space wolf units within 18" of him gain furious charge and fleet

Ice Cold efficiancy: All models in formation re roll charge distances and failed to hit rolls in over watch.

 

Codex

1 Wolf Lord

1 WGBL

1 Pack of Wolfguard

5 Units of Grey Hunters

1 Unit of Wolf Scouts

3 chosen from Blood claws Swift Claws or Skyclaws

2 Units of Long Fangs

Gain: The rules for the Wolves Unleashed Detachment( Reroll wolf warlord trait and chance for units to have outflanking)

Howl of the Wolves: All units in the formation have furious charge and fear.

 

To me the one in the codex seems very limited, and the special rules are the things we can already gain by using the detachment, meaning you could use the apoc one and gain the outflank and reroll plus the rules for the apoc one. There is also the fact that you cant add any other HQs to the codex one because it only lets you take those units. The Apoc one pretty much gives you the option of everything, but vehicles. 

[Ullr Direfang]

Yea, I like the one we got in our book, but would think it would fit better as a different kind of detachment. The one I have seen for/from Apoc seems more Great Company-ish.

[skeletoro]

I don't think you can stack the command benefits from SWU with the benefits of an apocalypse formation... can you??

[Vampyrer0me0]

I could be mistaken but as I understand it the benefits from the Wolves Unleashed detachment have nothing to do with which formations, if any, we choose. Which is the main reason I dont understand the formation in the codex. I mean we could take it and then use the CAD which would give us the wolf benefits and OBSEC, but meh?

[skeletoro]

SWU is a detachment, and so is CAD. A unit can only be part of one detachment, so you can't use them together.

 

The space wolves codex formation is also a detachment, because the rules say formations are a kind of detachment. So you can't mix it with CAD. You could take a CAD alongside the formation but each unit would be placed in either the formation or the CAD, not both.

 

Apoc rules state that each unit can only be part of one apoc formation, but that doesn't quite cover the question of stackingu the formation with CAD. However, I'm pretty sure the paragraph above applies to ANY FORMATION (SORRY ABOUT CAPS, SOFTWARE ISSUE). SO NO STACKING APOC FORMATIONS WITH DETACHMENTS AS APOC FORMATIONS ARE DETACHMENTS TOO.

[FenrisWolf]

I agree that the Apoc one is much better.  I may have to run that.  Are you allowed to run them in non=Apoc games, as long as you don't exceed the point total for the game?

[Vampyrer0me0]

See I had completely missed the fact that you dont get the special rules for detachments if you are running a formation. That makes the one in the codex make much more sense, but the Apoc one I think is still better even though you lose the re roll for the warlord trait and the outflank.

 

Edit: How would the great company formation work with adding other things to the army? lets say I took the great company but wanted to add a tank, would it be a whole separate detachment needing another HQ and troops?

[FenrisWolf]

I'd think so

[Valerian]

I am just curious if I can still use the one in the Apocolypse book. It seems to be a better show of what I would think a great company is, and the rules seem better. Has anyone tested them both out yet?

 

The answer to this one is rather simple actually.  The Great Company Formation in the Space Wolves codex is for 'regular' games of 40k, while the Apocalypse Formation is for, well, games of Apocalypse.  If you can convince your mates to let you play it in regular games then good on you, but otherwise it is meant for a different type of game-play.

 

For clarity on how Formations and Detachments work, there is a pinned thread at the top of this forum, and there is a link to it in my signature block, below.

 

V

[Vampyrer0me0]

Valerian, thank you that post addressed my questions as to how to build the army. It also discussed some of the points of the formations. I am not really sure either formation fits well into a regular game of 40k, but your point is a good one.