Deamon Wolf Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi All So I used to use Kaldor Dragio as my HQ with the new dex and all the changes I find it difficult to write any bound list that would benifit from having Kaldor Dragio in it instead of another dreadknight this is also hampered by the fact that he is nolonger an HQ but a Lord of War Choice now yes I know that we are all allowed to write unbound lists and that would be fine its just I find it feels wrong to do that. so toget back on to topic would you say making Kaldor Dragio , Logan Grimnar and Gazkull Thrakka lords of war has nerfed them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 then the next question would be why do a double nerf to one of our best Chareters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Tis a huge nerf. Yeah they made draigo less points.. But technically he's like 100pts more now because you have to purchase another HQ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 then the next question would be why do a double nerf to one of our best Chareters? So you buy more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwing Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Lord of War is a BS FOC addition. Especially since all the LoWs are big money assault guys in an edition where that means nothing. At least Draigo has a utility use, but still. I would prefer they still counted toward a mandatory FOC slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It is a nerf but how many of you play high enough points to warrant putting in a 400pt+ super heavy LoW? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Those sorts of Super Heavies pay for themselves really. If you were playing IG and had a Baneblade, wouldn't you use it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Those sorts of Super Heavies pay for themselves really. If you were playing IG and had a Baneblade, wouldn't you use it? Yes but I wouldn't play Draigo in that army. Guess my question is more aimed at GK players, what super heavies do they use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well Draigo is our only Codex option. What other Super heavy (outside of allies) would we use? If you're allying in IG, then it's a Baneblade. If you ally in SW, I doubt you'd want to use Logan. The units shoved into the LoW slot aren't equal. Logan and Draigo compared to a Baneblade or Revenant Titan? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
casb1965 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 We have access to Thunderhawk Gunships as well. I'm trying to remember where but I thought I saw a Forgeworld FAQ that allowed us to use all the IG Superheavies as well. EDIT: My bad, this is what I found http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf but it only allows us Marauders (Bomber and Destroyer), Reavers, Warhounds, Thunderhawks (Transport and Gunship) and any model from the new edition of Imperial Armour 2 that are classed as Lords of War Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 I Agree with Faithwing that the new Lord of War Option is an unneccacery addition to the FoC I have spent all day looking at ways of using dragio in a bound list for 2K and it just isnt feasable. I feel sorry for the puppies as im guesing they have a harder time of it with Logan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Not to mention that some tournaments here blindly refuse LoW altogether.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwing Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Exactly. The LoWs aren't remotely equal. What's a prolific Chapter Master going to do to a Titan? If all LoWs were only Ork bosses, and Marine baddies, then it'd be a little better (although still a poor FOC addition). And it is tough to incorporate them into conventional lists, as Daemon Wolf mentioned. LoWs are basically a oneshot Heavy Support slot, except the unit you're getting is just a souped up HQ (insofar as what is available in recent GW codexes), so it's usually more productive to get a less powerful HQ version who will actually count toward list building priorities, rather than a frivolous extra. That said, I'm not dissing Draigo, or dismissing Grimnar as a useless extra. You can still bring them, and have a good time, incorporate strats around them, etc. But if these guys would have been kept as HQs, it would be 100% good. There is no downside to these guys remaining as HQs. This is basically addition for no reason (other than sales). You can argue that it adds options by inviting Apocalypse units into any game, which is technically true, but 1000pts of SoB with a 500pt NSF against Necrons and their super C'tan Pyramid makes for the lamest narrative ever forged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Despite all comments, i found this addition of LoW, a very good issue. Draigo is still in the codex, it can be hired in our armies... He is not an Hq, so yes, you must hire another character, but... we always did that. ... at least all armies i saw have at least 2 Hqs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It depends. I'd say usually its an incorporated 'tax' of sorts. That said GKs are an army that benefits from its HQs quite a bit so its not unreasonable to want to build a list around 3 HQs, at which point the LoW designation becomes better since you aren't forced to spend more on troops to unlock another CAD. Just for example, purifiers spam revolving around gate of infinity. 2 Libbys + draigo makes this list possible but points are too tight to want to invest much into troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 There's no fax for three HQs. You can use two NSF (as long as you don't mind 4 Elite/Heavy instead of 6...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purifying Tempest Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It depends. I'd say usually its an incorporated 'tax' of sorts. That said GKs are an army that benefits from its HQs quite a bit so its not unreasonable to want to build a list around 3 HQs, at which point the LoW designation becomes better since you aren't forced to spend more on troops to unlock another CAD. Just for example, purifiers spam revolving around gate of infinity. 2 Libbys + draigo makes this list possible but points are too tight to want to invest much into troops. I'm really struggling to find a current GK list that would want to build around 3 HQs (especially one that is 245 points). That's 575 minimum points just to get 2 bland librarians, Draigo, and a 5 man strike for troop requirement. If we're talking about GK taxes (and what in the codex isn't a 'tax'?), I have started looking at our HQs as all being taxes. Usually, they're my NDK taxes, but in this case they are just a Draigo tax. Draigo would be incredible if he were a HQ, probably a little too good given what all he brings. Unfortunately, if you put a 110+ point tax on Draigo... he becomes a lot less attractive. Why would GW do this to iconic chapter characters? I think it is just to force us to play with things that are not Draigo or Logan, while at the same time giving us characters that would truly be amazing to field. Ah well, though, the best use for Draigo for us is porting around Centurions, anyways, so he is just kinda niche. If only close combat wasn't such a 5th edition thing, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3822890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm indifferent to it. I think it's dumb, yeah, but it stops people (read - annoying "l33t" twerps) just tossing them in at a tiny combat patrol level. That and for Draigo I think it kinda fits. I wouldn't trust some guy who pops in and out of reality at random to be my boss, no sir.Logan can bite it for all I care. Space Wolves are stupid. But that's another story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 You touch on a great reason for the LoW designation.. it takes a serious investment to 'unlock' draigo now rather than just taking him as the compulsory hq for an allied detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Just gonna clear up in case anyone expands on that (and decides to be picky) that the 'twerps' comment isn't universally applicable... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Odd, I seem to have no trouble fitting Draigo into a 1500pt list. The required HQ "tax is a unit I'd already be taking, do no loss there. And the rest of the list is either GKT, GKIS, or NDK. Works pretty good so far. Is Draigo being a LoW is nerf in my opinion? No, because I would never have taken him as a lone HQ anyway, and it's not like we a ton of awesome LoW options to slot right in. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 jeffersonian000 I take your point I did manage to run an unbound list with Dragio for 2k but even then it was a strech I think if you are going to have Dragio in an Army you need to build the Army around him unfortunatly i tend to write armys around what is cool and what i want in an army which up untill now has worked reasonably well Im guessing its down to a grizzled old vet that needs to change his ideas that and my GM with soul glave is v cool Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Agree with SJ. It's just an FOC slot change, and it's too a slot that literally has no other options within the codex. The only impact is that you'll have to fill the now vacant HQ slot with some other IC. If you weren't going to take another IC, then there's a 'tax', but if you were going to also bring another, like a Librarian, then there is literally no impact. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3823977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Apart from Allied detachments and Paladins as Troops. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297451-is-lord-of-war-a-major-nerf/#findComment-3824026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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